5 ms·

uh, what's the cost in fuel emissions when I get a veg from my front yard grown in mulch generated from my own tree?

bpodgursky 11y ago
Depends. Did you even once drive to the nursery or hardware store to pick up seeds, pots or fertilizer to grow it? If so, you have completely negated all energy savings.
- tehchromic 11y ago
  not quite, since that one trip produced many pounds of fresh healthy food over many weeks, whereas a comparable amount of fresh produce from the grocery store takes many trips. That said, it's a culture of food production that's really where the efficiency lies. That's people saving and trading seeds, helping each other farm and harvest, and bottling and canning for winter. That's not only tremendously efficient if it's done locally, it's also fun.
sushid 11y ago
Probably negligible even if you have a higher-than-average methane output. :p But I believe the parent comment was discussing the cost in fuel emissions for local farmers producing for ~50 families in his area vs. a mega-farm outputting tons of food for cities across state lines.
- tehchromic 11y ago
  yeah, well I think the mega-farm outputting tons of food for cities across state lines has it's place, however I think, and a lot of research as well as the direction of industry backs me up, that the conventional farming techniques on mega-farms need an upgrade. That is, fewer toxic chemicals, more organic practices, less monocropping, more automation, more high technology, more holistic, integrated, organic solutions to pests, etc. And, on top of all that, local food sources are extremely valuable to a large scale sustainable food system. They're a buffer, and a cultural benefit, as agrarian pursuit is a truly healthy way for society to form its social engagement - it's called deep ecology and it's a human need to be engaged and invested with the cycles of life. It's much better than sequestering behind walls in front of TV's as we do now. So, true that it can't provide all our food, but it can provide a damn good buffer, and a lot more value aside from just calories. Don't buy the myth that farm life is slavery - that's an invention of the last century. Generally farm life, when it is done right, is extremely fulfilling. They even had a word for it: bucolic!
roel_v 11y ago
How many tomatoes, or other vegetables, do you grow there? What about the environmental cost of living in a place that allows you to have a garden big enough to grow vegetables at all? You are using more fuel to get to and from your place; you waste more energy heating/cooling it, you require subsidies to get power, water and sewage infrastructure to your house (subsidized by the commons, btw). How much kettle or poultry do you grow? How do you contain their pollution? What about scaling - how does your proposed lifestyle scale? The science is clear, and people in the field don't even question it: high-intensity farming (and living) are the true 'green' way of organizing our society. Low-density, 'farmer's market supported', everything-local is a luxury product, affordable for an elite only, and the popular conception just needs to catch up to that reality.

Depends. Did you even once drive to the nursery or hardware store to pick up seeds, pots or fertilizer to grow it? If so, you have completely negated all energy savings.

tehchromic 11y ago
not quite, since that one trip produced many pounds of fresh healthy food over many weeks, whereas a comparable amount of fresh produce from the grocery store takes many trips. That said, it's a culture of food production that's really where the efficiency lies. That's people saving and trading seeds, helping each other farm and harvest, and bottling and canning for winter. That's not only tremendously efficient if it's done locally, it's also fun.

sushid 11y ago

Probably negligible even if you have a higher-than-average methane output. :p But I believe the parent comment was discussing the cost in fuel emissions for local farmers producing for ~50 families in his area vs. a mega-farm outputting tons of food for cities across state lines.

tehchromic 11y ago
yeah, well I think the mega-farm outputting tons of food for cities across state lines has it's place, however I think, and a lot of research as well as the direction of industry backs me up, that the conventional farming techniques on mega-farms need an upgrade. That is, fewer toxic chemicals, more organic practices, less monocropping, more automation, more high technology, more holistic, integrated, organic solutions to pests, etc. And, on top of all that, local food sources are extremely valuable to a large scale sustainable food system. They're a buffer, and a cultural benefit, as agrarian pursuit is a truly healthy way for society to form its social engagement - it's called deep ecology and it's a human need to be engaged and invested with the cycles of life. It's much better than sequestering behind walls in front of TV's as we do now. So, true that it can't provide all our food, but it can provide a damn good buffer, and a lot more value aside from just calories. Don't buy the myth that farm life is slavery - that's an invention of the last century. Generally farm life, when it is done right, is extremely fulfilling. They even had a word for it: bucolic!

roel_v 11y ago

How many tomatoes, or other vegetables, do you grow there? What about the environmental cost of living in a place that allows you to have a garden big enough to grow vegetables at all? You are using more fuel to get to and from your place; you waste more energy heating/cooling it, you require subsidies to get power, water and sewage infrastructure to your house (subsidized by the commons, btw). How much kettle or poultry do you grow? How do you contain their pollution? What about scaling - how does your proposed lifestyle scale? The science is clear, and people in the field don't even question it: high-intensity farming (and living) are the true 'green' way of organizing our society. Low-density, 'farmer's market supported', everything-local is a luxury product, affordable for an elite only, and the popular conception just needs to catch up to that reality.