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uber drivers are not meaningfully self employed, but its of great advantage to uber to pretend they are. It is uber that is trying to "have its cake and eat it

by throwaway2048 11y ago

uber drivers are not meaningfully self employed, but its of great advantage to uber to pretend they are. It is uber that is trying to "have its cake and eat it".

paulgb 11y ago
At least in NYC, most of the drivers I talk to drive for multiple services (e.g. Via during rush hour, Uber on weekends). This is probably less the case in cities where Uber is more dominant though.
- throwaway2048 11y ago
  people can hold more than one job and still be employees
  - enjo 11y ago
    Uber drivers can hold more than one job doing exactly the same thing. They are free to pick up rides or not on whatever schedule they want. They bring their own equipment to the job. They've always seemed to meet the definition of contractor to me (I know a certain court in California disagrees). * edit: Having just now read the article, it seems like Uber has some sort of minimum hour requirement, which would definitely change the equation quite a bit.
    - facetube 11y ago
      IRS: "You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed."
  - bpodgursky 11y ago
    How could you expect every company they drive for (concurrently) to simultaneously pay them the same hourly ( > minimum) wage? I can't see any outcome with "employee" status that would let drivers continue to drive for two services at the same time. This would add a HUGE barrier to entry for new companies in this market -- I would argue it's hugely anti-competitive, given the critical-mass you need for a ridesharing service to work. And could easily result in lower effective hourly wages for drivers, if they spend more time idling around.
    - throwaway2048 11y ago
      You can't effectively work for anyone else while you are "on call" with uber because that would mean you would eventually have to decline too many ride requests, which would result in uber banning you. Combine that with the fact uber has on-call-hours minimums, and one can see although the hours may be more flexible, the workers are very much not independant. A critical component of being an (actual) contractor is the peicemeal basis of it, without further, unconnected obligation.
      - travisp 11y ago
        I see drivers doing this all the time, and here's a guide for drivers to doing it: http://therideshareguy.com/how-to-drive-for-uber-and-lyft-at-the-same-time/ http://therideshareguy.com/how-to-drive-for-uber-and-lyft-at... "Once that is complete, you will be back online with Uber. Switch to the Lyft app to go back online with Lyft."
  - amyjess 11y ago
    Most companies don't allow employees to moonlight for direct competitors.

uber drivers are not meaningfully self employed, but its of great advantage to uber to pretend they are. It is uber that is trying to "have its cake and eat it".

paulgb 11y ago

At least in NYC, most of the drivers I talk to drive for multiple services (e.g. Via during rush hour, Uber on weekends). This is probably less the case in cities where Uber is more dominant though.

throwaway2048 11y ago
people can hold more than one job and still be employees
- enjo 11y ago
  Uber drivers can hold more than one job doing exactly the same thing. They are free to pick up rides or not on whatever schedule they want. They bring their own equipment to the job. They've always seemed to meet the definition of contractor to me (I know a certain court in California disagrees). * edit: Having just now read the article, it seems like Uber has some sort of minimum hour requirement, which would definitely change the equation quite a bit.
  - facetube 11y ago
    IRS: "You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed."
- bpodgursky 11y ago
  How could you expect every company they drive for (concurrently) to simultaneously pay them the same hourly ( > minimum) wage? I can't see any outcome with "employee" status that would let drivers continue to drive for two services at the same time. This would add a HUGE barrier to entry for new companies in this market -- I would argue it's hugely anti-competitive, given the critical-mass you need for a ridesharing service to work. And could easily result in lower effective hourly wages for drivers, if they spend more time idling around.
  - throwaway2048 11y ago
    You can't effectively work for anyone else while you are "on call" with uber because that would mean you would eventually have to decline too many ride requests, which would result in uber banning you. Combine that with the fact uber has on-call-hours minimums, and one can see although the hours may be more flexible, the workers are very much not independant. A critical component of being an (actual) contractor is the peicemeal basis of it, without further, unconnected obligation.
    - travisp 11y ago
      I see drivers doing this all the time, and here's a guide for drivers to doing it: http://therideshareguy.com/how-to-drive-for-uber-and-lyft-at-the-same-time/ http://therideshareguy.com/how-to-drive-for-uber-and-lyft-at... "Once that is complete, you will be back online with Uber. Switch to the Lyft app to go back online with Lyft."
- amyjess 11y ago
  Most companies don't allow employees to moonlight for direct competitors.