4 ms·

>This prevents a country from forcing somebody like Microsoft or Apple to give up their source code for "inspection" in order to access their market. Since whe

>This prevents a country from forcing somebody like Microsoft or Apple to give up their source code for "inspection" in order to access their market. Since when is that a good thing?

tylermauthe 11y ago
Since Capitalism ;)
michaelt 11y ago
America hopes to use TPP as a model for a similar deal with China, so America has insisted on a bunch of rules you'd only expect in a trade deal with a banana republic - like investor-state dispute settlement. At present, "Chinese officials have learned to tackle multinational companies, often forcing them to form joint ventures with [Chinese companies] and transfer the latest technology in exchange for current and future business opportunities" [1] which is good for China but bad for America. America wants a treaty with China that will stop them doing that. Personally I'd be surprised if China went for such a deal, regardless of what happens with TPP. [1] https://hbr.org/2010/12/china-vs-the-world-whose-technology-is-it https://hbr.org/2010/12/china-vs-the-world-whose-technology-...
- crdoconnor 11y ago
  The TPP is actually supposed to exclude China and create a competing trade bloc. It was even called the "everybody but China deal" by some people. All part of Obama's "pivot to Asia"... supposedly. However, given the contents of the treaty, I don't think this exclusion is something that really bothers China. China wanted in on the WTO bad. Real bad. China doesn't really care about the TPP.
  - kuschku 11y ago
    To quote Obama: > The TPP means that America will write the rules of the road in the 21st century. http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/11/05/trade-tpp-idINKCN0SU0SR20151105 http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/11/05/trade-tpp-idINKCN0S... It very much sounds like they’re treating the rest of the world as colonies.
    - jessaustin 11y ago
      Yeah, but they say that in order to appeal to us voters, who are assumed all to be ignorant jingoist buffoons, ready to support any idiocy so long as it can be imposed on foreigners. It's actually like many other political efforts in this country, in that only the interests of the very richest donors, corporations, and lobbyists are considered.
      - crdoconnor 11y ago
        Obama sees the TPP as a key part of his legacy (along with Obamacare). I think that sentence might have been as much about self-aggrandizement as it was jingoism. He really seems to think that the TPP is a key plank in shoring up American power in Asia. Which, if it were a better treaty, it might.
    - oldmanjay 11y ago
      Not colonies, markets. The connotations of your word choice seem solely intended to make emotional connections that the reality does not support.
      - kuschku 11y ago
        Well, ISDS – which, obviously, is a way to give up parts of sovereignty (not necessarily bad) – has some specific exceptions that make it unlikely it can be used against the US, instead mostly against the other partners. This gradient of power reminds of the colony-empire relationship of one entity having might over another. (though not nearly comparable, I used it as hyperbole) In a good treaty both the US and any partners – like Japan, Singapore, or New Zealand – would get the exact same rights.
        lazaroclapp 11y ago
        Honest curiosity: which exceptions make it hard to use the ISDS against the US government?
        11y ago
briandear 11y ago
Since Microsoft and Apple spend hundreds of millions developing that code. To let a country 'inspect' it is to put valuable intellectual property at risk. Would you trust China to inspect your source code for a project you spent millions developing a unique technology? Should Boeing open source their aircraft wing designs? To suggest such is ludicrous. Do you really want governments with access to everyone's source code?
- e12e 11y ago
  I'm not sure I'd want to allow China to sell a "secure operating system" to government agencies - and not be able to demand source code access as part of the bidding process. I'm not sure I'd want a US company to supply hardware/OS to schools, and not be able to stipulate source code availability in the contract. I'm not sure if this is the kind of things that this makes illegal -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

>This prevents a country from forcing somebody like Microsoft or Apple to give up their source code for "inspection" in order to access their market. Since when is that a good thing?

tylermauthe 11y ago

Since Capitalism ;)

michaelt 11y ago

America hopes to use TPP as a model for a similar deal with China, so America has insisted on a bunch of rules you'd only expect in a trade deal with a banana republic - like investor-state dispute settlement. At present, "Chinese officials have learned to tackle multinational companies, often forcing them to form joint ventures with [Chinese companies] and transfer the latest technology in exchange for current and future business opportunities" [1] which is good for China but bad for America. America wants a treaty with China that will stop them doing that. Personally I'd be surprised if China went for such a deal, regardless of what happens with TPP. [1] https://hbr.org/2010/12/china-vs-the-world-whose-technology-is-it https://hbr.org/2010/12/china-vs-the-world-whose-technology-...

crdoconnor 11y ago
The TPP is actually supposed to exclude China and create a competing trade bloc. It was even called the "everybody but China deal" by some people. All part of Obama's "pivot to Asia"... supposedly. However, given the contents of the treaty, I don't think this exclusion is something that really bothers China. China wanted in on the WTO bad. Real bad. China doesn't really care about the TPP.
- kuschku 11y ago
  To quote Obama: > The TPP means that America will write the rules of the road in the 21st century. http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/11/05/trade-tpp-idINKCN0SU0SR20151105 http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/11/05/trade-tpp-idINKCN0S... It very much sounds like they’re treating the rest of the world as colonies.
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    Yeah, but they say that in order to appeal to us voters, who are assumed all to be ignorant jingoist buffoons, ready to support any idiocy so long as it can be imposed on foreigners. It's actually like many other political efforts in this country, in that only the interests of the very richest donors, corporations, and lobbyists are considered.
    - crdoconnor 11y ago
      Obama sees the TPP as a key part of his legacy (along with Obamacare). I think that sentence might have been as much about self-aggrandizement as it was jingoism. He really seems to think that the TPP is a key plank in shoring up American power in Asia. Which, if it were a better treaty, it might.
  - oldmanjay 11y ago
    Not colonies, markets. The connotations of your word choice seem solely intended to make emotional connections that the reality does not support.
    - kuschku 11y ago
      Well, ISDS – which, obviously, is a way to give up parts of sovereignty (not necessarily bad) – has some specific exceptions that make it unlikely it can be used against the US, instead mostly against the other partners. This gradient of power reminds of the colony-empire relationship of one entity having might over another. (though not nearly comparable, I used it as hyperbole) In a good treaty both the US and any partners – like Japan, Singapore, or New Zealand – would get the exact same rights.
      - lazaroclapp 11y ago
        Honest curiosity: which exceptions make it hard to use the ISDS against the US government?
        11y ago

briandear 11y ago

Since Microsoft and Apple spend hundreds of millions developing that code. To let a country 'inspect' it is to put valuable intellectual property at risk. Would you trust China to inspect your source code for a project you spent millions developing a unique technology? Should Boeing open source their aircraft wing designs? To suggest such is ludicrous. Do you really want governments with access to everyone's source code?

e12e 11y ago
I'm not sure I'd want to allow China to sell a "secure operating system" to government agencies - and not be able to demand source code access as part of the bidding process. I'm not sure I'd want a US company to supply hardware/OS to schools, and not be able to stipulate source code availability in the contract. I'm not sure if this is the kind of things that this makes illegal -- but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.