15 ms·

Microsoft and Red Hat partner

301 points by kenrick95 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
ARothfusz 11y ago
I remember when Microsoft teamed up with IBM on OS/2, so I'd predict that Microsoft comes out with its own brand of Linux within 5 years. That will give them time to learn what they need to include/exclude and support.
- jzd 11y ago
  This is the most important comment in the whole thread
- Ologn 11y ago
  In the late 1980s, Microsoft's version of Unix, Xenix, was installed on more machines than any other version of Unix. Radio Shack sold Tandy HD machines running Xenix to business customers. In fact, Radio Shack stores themselves used a POS system running Xenix, up until the mid 1990s at least. Microsoft sold Xenix to SCO in 1987.
scholia 11y ago
This isn't really new, it's just Red Hat being late to the party. From Jun 6, 2012: "The Linux services will go live on Azure at 4 a.m. EDT on Thursday. At that time, the Azure portal will offer a number of Linux distributions, including Suse Linux Enterprise Server 11 SP2, OpenSuse 12.01, CentOS 6.2 and Canonical Ubuntu 12.04. Azure users will be able to choose and deploy a Linux distribution from the Microsoft Windows Azure Image Gallery." http://www.pcworld.com/article/257073/microsoft_to_run_linux_on_azure.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/257073/microsoft_to_run_linux... Or you could always load your own distro of choice in Hyper-V.
- toyg 11y ago
  Or rather Microsoft desperately clinging on RedHat to make its cloud proposition look commercially legit. I mean, look at that list: the first two items are for SuSE, a distribution that is hardly popular these days, then you have "knockoff RedHat" CentOS and "hobbyist's choice" Ubuntu. I'm surprised they left off Debian, I guess that's still a bit too hippy. In any case, not the stuff of dreams, from a commercial standpoint. So you can spin it both ways, really.
  - scholia 11y ago
    Was simply pointing out the fact that Linux has been on Azure for years, because apparently some people don't know that. Indeed, according to Microsoft: "More than 20 percent of Azure virtual machines run on Linux." http://news.microsoft.com/cloud/index.html http://news.microsoft.com/cloud/index.html You're welcome to spin anything you like.
    - toyg 11y ago
      Yeah, but "Red Hat being late" is not a fact, it's placing the burden on Red Hat for getting their stuff running on Microsoft's systems for Microsoft's benefit. "Microsoft was late getting Red Hat on board" is the exact same fact with the opposite spin. No spin would have been "both companies ironed out an agreement allowing their products to be commercially supported when working together, three years after Azure launched support for Linux systems". I know, not sexy.
      - scholia 11y ago
        Red Hat could have been one of the first Linuxes on Azure, if it had wanted. But back in 2013, it said: "Red Hat CEO: We don't need Microsoft to succeed" http://www.infoworld.com/article/2614357/linux/red-hat-ceo--we-don-t-need-microsoft-to-succeed.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2614357/linux/red-hat-ceo--... I don't see why you're quibbling about "late". It's a fact that it's more than three years later than a bunch of other versions. But hey, you can have your own spin.
gopowerranger 11y ago
Who forced this? It's way too early for me to make this comment, I think, but "Dinosaur's mating?". Square peg force fitting into round hole?
yxhuvud 11y ago
Now that is a headline that would have raised a few eyebrows 15 years ago.
- frik 11y ago
  In 2006 we had a similar headline. Microsoft partnered with Novell (SuSE Linux), and there was no happy end for one of them (Novell is no more; SuSE Linux once a major distribution next to RedHat is a shadow of its former self). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell#Agreement_with_Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell#Agreement_with_Microsof...
  - bad_user 11y ago
    I remember that one. Many people were pissed off because that partnership included a patents agreement. This was because in the eyes of many, this meant an acknowledgement from Novell that Microsoft was in the right to claim patents infringement of Linux and SuSE Linux was then advertised as the safe distribution. Talk about a sure way to piss off your community.
    - rch 11y ago
      Not just an agreement, but also that 'Novell agreed to pay royalties to Microsoft based on Novell's open source sales'. http://www.infoworld.com/article/2654097/linux/the-microsoft-novell-linux-deal--two-years-later.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2654097/linux/the-microsoft...
  - dman 11y ago
    The interesting part was that from what I recall there were a couple of quarters where Microsoft's sales force sold more Novell licenses than their own sales force.
  - lloydde 11y ago
    Worked out well for Xamarin. Also, it seems to me that SUSE is still in good shape, but didn't continued to grow like RedHat.
cdnsteve 11y ago
A cloud provider that offers Linux and Windows, this is cutting edge.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  Sure, it's not cutting edge, but it's one of a bunch of signs recently that Microsoft has turned over a new leaf in the last few years. Visual Studio's page now mentions Git, a GPLed piece of software built for Linux kernel development. They've come a long way from "GPL is cancer!"
  - u02sgb 11y ago
    And there's git-tf: http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=30474 http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=3047... a command line git-alike that will work with a TFS server. Not nice to use, in my experience, but it is officially from MS.
  - astine 11y ago
    Git is actually integrated in the latest VS and a lot of recent documentation assume that you are using it by default. Also, the latest release of ASP.NET MVC uses Bootstrap as its front end. That's not GPL, but it seems to be part of the larger trend of Microsoft integrating popular FOSS tools into their workflow where they can.
  - CaptSpify 11y ago
    They have made improvements, but I still don't trust them. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. They laid a lot of groundwork for mistrust, so they'll have to undo that, and it won't be quick or easy IMO.
- Mojah 11y ago
  I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or downright honest, so I'll just put it out there: we've had cloud providers offering both for at least 5+ years.
  - 11y ago
af3 11y ago
> providing access to .NET technologies across Red Hat offerings, including OpenShift and Red Hat Enterprise Linux That can be huge! Imagine RH coming with .NET preinstalled. Next time I need to write a shell script, I might pick C#...
thebouv 11y ago
I'm not fooling myself into seeing this as anything but a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" setup. RedHat is getting a ton out of this, and so is Microsoft. Who's the main target for Azure? Enterprise companies who trust Microsoft implicitly. When an exec comes to the head of IT and says "we need to be on the cloud! I read about it!", Azure eases the transition by being able to go to vendor you've already been using for a dozen years. RedHat's core audience is enterprise as well. RHEL is the de facto standard for that level of infrastructure due to the support you can get versus any of the distributions that are equally as good, but minus the support contracts. So, they're helping each other out and that's good in my humble opinion. Microsoft's new direction under their new CEO is one surprise after another. I've only tinkered with Azure so far but makes me want to pay MS more attention than I would have a couple years ago.
- illumen 11y ago
  Azure is the OS. Red hat's stuff is the application.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - thebouv 11y ago
    Yes. And different Linux flavors were already on Azure as "applications" prior to this deal. But now RedHat is getting the official stamp. If Azure the OS only had Windows the App, that would be a great failing. MS is smart and playing Azure out to not just promote other MS products. Expanding it as an ecosystem for various OSes is a Good Thing.
    - acveilleux 11y ago
      Yes, besides any sufficiently lucrative enterprise customer is bound to have a few Lunix boxes for $ENTERPRISE_APP they can't live without. I say this as someone who works for an ISV that is single-handedly responsible for the only Linux servers most of our customers have.
- deleted 11y ago
bitmapbrother 11y ago
Awesome. I can't wait to receive my Redhat voucher.
bechampion 11y ago
who uses redhat ? (im not being sarcastic)
- auvi 11y ago
  the US government is a big one.
- goykasi 11y ago
  Shops that actually want the support that Redhat provides, otherwise they would probably use Debian or Centos. I would assume Redhat-required shops would be running some pretty heavy, sophisticated workloads.
- rdtsc 11y ago
  Non-startup world uses Redhat. Amazon Linux is based on Redhat. CentOS is a Redhat recompile, so you can say anyone using that is also using "Redhat". US govt almost exclusively uses RHEL when they mean "Linux". Also banks, healthcare, etc.
- bnastic 11y ago
  "Enterprise". E.g. you won't find a bank that doesn't run RedHat. RedHat is Linux for enterprise people.
- forgottenpass 11y ago
  Generally speaking, entities where their professional administration teams need a *nix product with a strong reputation for dependability and the fall-back option of a support contact for when things go pear-shaped. This is vaguely referred to as "The Enterprise," because they tend to be large, low risk organizations with high user counts. RedHat's userbase is basically the opposite side of the spectrum from Ubuntu users flying by the seat of their pants with that popular free server thingie they heard about.
- JustSomeNobody 11y ago
  Enterprise. They don't buy into anything unless they can get "real" support (not just a few neckbeards telling them they can admin Linux).
diakritikal 11y ago
In the last 5 years we've experimented with Linux on top of hyper-v a few times. The basic I/O, compile & runtime performance was significantly inferior to xen & kvm (didn't bench against vmware, phasing it out due to cost), it wasn't worth any effort to even deploy apps for testing. Therefore I don't see Linux on hyper-v being a compelling option for the cost conscientious technical officer or lead engineer.
- pweissbrod 11y ago
  I find this interesting. I see many conflicting and biased studies comparing cloud/hypervisor performance. There are a great number of variables that come into play with configuring each hypervisor. Also, considering continual updates, a solid analysis 6 months ago may be stale. Not to mention most of the studies come from the vendors, not from independent parties. Question: does anyone know of an ongoing/reliable performance review of the major hypervisors?
- aexaey 11y ago
  I'm getting approximately the same CPU & storage performance out of Azure's A0 machine w/Debian8, as from AWS t2.micro instance with spinning rust storage and Debian8 (both are cheapest offer available, and price is quite similar between them). Network on Azure though is a totally wrecked thing: - A0 instance is capped to a miserable 5 megabit/s uplink (downlink is fine); - If you want TCP/UDP ports open, you need to open them one-by-one, going through a 2-page wizard with 8 fields in total to fill in for each port you are opening, and then waiting 15-20 seconds for each "change" to be applied. Good luck opening a 1024-port range for your SIP server; - You can't open ICMP/GRE/IPSEC or any other custom protocol; - There are ton of really weirdly configured network gear between your VM and the Internet - packet drops and private IPs in traceroute, etc... - On a plus side, you can enable so called "direct server return" and you will get incoming packets with your public IP as a destination IP; a really nice feature sorely missing on AWS.
  - gruez 11y ago
    >A0 instance is capped to a miserable 5 megabit/s uplink (downlink is fine); I thought it was 10Mb/s? >If you want TCP/UDP ports open, you need to open them one-by-one, going through a 2-page wizard with 8 fields in total to fill in for each port you are opening, and then waiting 15-20 seconds for each "change" to be applied. Good luck opening a 1024-port range for your SIP server; ...or use the powershell cmdlets and do it in one line
technofiend 11y ago
I think this is just ticking a box for Microsoft since I believe you can get RH on AWS. But let's be honest - how many people will perceive any value in stacking a Microsoft technology (.NET) on top of UNIX? Sure if you already have a .NET app, hosting it in UNIX may give you some benefit. But is anyone really going to write an app from scratch with this in mind? I'm skeptical.
- adrianlmm 11y ago
  I would, .NET and the latest C# is awesome and superior to other frameworks, so yes, the fact that can run in Linux is something very atractive.
  - jnericks 11y ago
    This, I've recently been writing more Java lately and I miss C# quite a bit
  - mercurial 11y ago
    C# is a decent language if you like imperative programing. .NET MVC, though, is far from impressive. The routing is crap, Razor is designed to encourage you to dump C# straight into your views, and in general it feels like a "let's do Rails in C#", which I really don't see as the future of web development.
    - edgyswingset 11y ago
      You don't need to use ASP.NET MVC (or even ASP.NET at all) when writing something for the web. And if you like functional programming, use F#. It's pretty great.
    - adrianlmm 11y ago
      >C# is a decent language Just decent? I dissagree, it is the best language to my taste. >NET MVC, though, is far from impressive Tell me what is impressive them, becuase to me is a well stablished, easy to use and learn with static typing, there is nothing better. >The routing is crap The routing is highly configurable, by default it mimics Ruby on Rails routing and if you don't like it you can use your own, you have no idea of what are you talking about. >Razor is designed to encourage you to dump C# straight into your views Just like in JSP pages you can write Java code, or in ERB pages you can write Ruby code or in EJS pages yu can write JavaScript code, and if you don't like there a re plenty of options. >which I really don't see as the future of web development Your personal views are just that, personal, at least inform your self well before making ignorant statements.
striking 11y ago
Well, at least it explains systemd. /s
- bitL 11y ago
  Hahaha, came here to say exactly that. So, Red Hat is the next Nokia now?
jasonjei 11y ago
Microsoft did a partnership like this before with Apple (Microsoft Office) but it didn't turn out so well for Apple. Wondering what the outcome would be like with Satya in the driver's seat.
- riskable 11y ago
  A better comparison would be a situation where Microsoft partnered with a company over an operating system... Like IBM with OS/2 which turned out great, right? haha Or let's look at when Microsoft partnered with Novell: http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-makes-linux-pact-with-novell/ http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-makes-linux-pact-with-nov... The byline from that article is classic! "Former software foes pledge to work together to help Windows world and Linux world interoperate." Turned out great for Novell, right? Hah! Does anyone use SuSE anymore? It's market is so tiny it's hard to find statistics for it. Other fun Microsoft partnerships: Nokia, Barnes & Noble, Best Buy, Yahoo, Nortel, Sendo, and probably dozens of smaller companies that came & went or are but a fraction of their former selves. A more interesting thing to track: How is the partnership with Microsoft working out for Docker? I'm really curious what the heck Microsoft is going to do in the next version of Windows Server to actually support realistic containerization.
  - jasonjei 11y ago
    Thanks for all the examples where Microsoft pulled a Trojan. I totally agree. If Win32 embraces the Linux kernel calls to make Docker work without virtualization, is there a possible Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish plan? Or are businesses smart enough to avoid a repeat of ActiveX? Microsoft made a pact with Sun back in the day where they would support Java. If memory serves, Microsoft supported a Java that only worked on Win32 using J/Direct calls that natively supported Win32 instead of being OS independent like most Java apps.
decafbad 11y ago
"Unthinkable" This was title of Redhat's comment on Microsoft-Suse partnership.
mtgx 11y ago
Considering fewer enterprises trust Windows 10 with every new headline about how it spies on you, I guess they had no choice but to offer Linux as an option as well. Also relevant to "Microsoft's love for Linux": https://plus.google.com/+SimonPhipps/posts/c636Vp4kKbf https://plus.google.com/+SimonPhipps/posts/c636Vp4kKbf
- scholia 11y ago
  Windows 10 uptake is remarkably good on Windows 10, perhaps because enterprises don't fall for click-bait headlines. Microsoft Says 1.5 Million Enterprise Users Have Deployed Windows 10 https://redmondmag.com/blogs/the-schwartz-report/2015/08/enterprises-deployed-windows-10.aspx https://redmondmag.com/blogs/the-schwartz-report/2015/08/ent... Bank of America CTO Talks Windows 10 Plans, Security http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/executive-insights-and-innovation/bank-of-america-cto-talks-windows-10-plans-security-/d/d-id/1321721 http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/executive-insig... "Reilly promised a Windows 10 upgrade is on the horizon for Bank of America. "We're looking to adopt as early as we can," he said. Such a project will be a massive undertaking given the sheer multitude of Windows devices within the organization, but he appears optimistic about the process." I was a Microsoft sceptic, but Windows 10 has me convinced http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/i-was-a-microsoft-sceptic-but-windows-10-has-me-convinced-20150817-gj1e5y.html http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/i-wa... "Then, last week, at an event hosted by CIO magazine, where I gave a keynote, I spoke to a group of Chief Information Officers of large and midsized companies about technology trends. The vast majority said they were buying Microsoft's Surface Pro tablets for their users and upgrading desktop machines to Windows 10." See also: Configure telemetry and other settings in your organization https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208%28v=vs.85%29.aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208%28v=vs....
rottyguy 11y ago
forgetting the cloud stuff for now, this is much more interesting: "Collaboration on .NET for a new generation of application development capabilities, providing access to .NET technologies across Red Hat offerings, including OpenShift and Red Hat Enterprise Linux, which will be available within the next few weeks." Xplat .net is coming to RC1 in a couple of weeks (per roadmap: https://github.com/aspnet/Home/wiki/Roadmap https://github.com/aspnet/Home/wiki/Roadmap) and it's exciting to see that RHEL will support it. It makes sense for Microsoft, traditionally an enterprise company on the backend, to partner with a *nix company with, primarily, enterprise clients on the backend. If nothing else, the toolset microsoft brings to the table will raise all boats on the -nix side IMO.
daveloyall 11y ago
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
- kfcpanda 11y ago
  Oh... you heard about that?
GPGPU 11y ago
You know, I'd love to see the Windows UI and experience on top of a solid Unix API. In fact, they can easily implement a full Linux API on top of the Windows API. Sort of what Apple did with Mach/NeXT. Microsoft could embrace and extend Linux and legitimize it.
ck2 11y ago
So next version of Windows getting systemd? Systemd would be right at home in Windows.
bovermyer 11y ago
For me, this piece was the most interesting: "Collaboration on .NET for a new generation of application development capabilities, providing access to .NET technologies across Red Hat offerings, including OpenShift and Red Hat Enterprise Linux, which will be available within the next few weeks." Further development of .NET as cross-platform, not just Windows-based? That could bode well for the stack. I doubt I'll ever write .NET code again, but this seems like a sensible decision to me.
rasz_pl 11y ago
Did/will Red Hat hire Miguel de Icaza next? First systemD, now this. Sounds like Suse/Novell.
erostrate 11y ago
"Linux is a cancer" Microsoft's CEO, 2001 (Steve Ballmer) Source: http://slashdot.org/story/01/06/01/1658258/ballmer-calls-linux-a-cancer http://slashdot.org/story/01/06/01/1658258/ballmer-calls-lin...
DigitalSea 11y ago
Here is a headline I never thought I would ever see. I guess from a business perspective this makes a tonne of sense. Red Hat is a massive player in the Linux market.

301 points by kenrick95 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

I remember when Microsoft teamed up with IBM on OS/2, so I'd predict that Microsoft comes out with its own brand of Linux within 5 years. That will give them time to learn what they need to include/exclude and support.

jzd 11y ago
This is the most important comment in the whole thread
Ologn 11y ago
In the late 1980s, Microsoft's version of Unix, Xenix, was installed on more machines than any other version of Unix. Radio Shack sold Tandy HD machines running Xenix to business customers. In fact, Radio Shack stores themselves used a POS system running Xenix, up until the mid 1990s at least. Microsoft sold Xenix to SCO in 1987.

scholia 11y ago

This isn't really new, it's just Red Hat being late to the party. From Jun 6, 2012: "The Linux services will go live on Azure at 4 a.m. EDT on Thursday. At that time, the Azure portal will offer a number of Linux distributions, including Suse Linux Enterprise Server 11 SP2, OpenSuse 12.01, CentOS 6.2 and Canonical Ubuntu 12.04. Azure users will be able to choose and deploy a Linux distribution from the Microsoft Windows Azure Image Gallery." http://www.pcworld.com/article/257073/microsoft_to_run_linux_on_azure.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/257073/microsoft_to_run_linux... Or you could always load your own distro of choice in Hyper-V.

toyg 11y ago
Or rather Microsoft desperately clinging on RedHat to make its cloud proposition look commercially legit. I mean, look at that list: the first two items are for SuSE, a distribution that is hardly popular these days, then you have "knockoff RedHat" CentOS and "hobbyist's choice" Ubuntu. I'm surprised they left off Debian, I guess that's still a bit too hippy. In any case, not the stuff of dreams, from a commercial standpoint. So you can spin it both ways, really.
- scholia 11y ago
  Was simply pointing out the fact that Linux has been on Azure for years, because apparently some people don't know that. Indeed, according to Microsoft: "More than 20 percent of Azure virtual machines run on Linux." http://news.microsoft.com/cloud/index.html http://news.microsoft.com/cloud/index.html You're welcome to spin anything you like.
  - toyg 11y ago
    Yeah, but "Red Hat being late" is not a fact, it's placing the burden on Red Hat for getting their stuff running on Microsoft's systems for Microsoft's benefit. "Microsoft was late getting Red Hat on board" is the exact same fact with the opposite spin. No spin would have been "both companies ironed out an agreement allowing their products to be commercially supported when working together, three years after Azure launched support for Linux systems". I know, not sexy.
    - scholia 11y ago
      Red Hat could have been one of the first Linuxes on Azure, if it had wanted. But back in 2013, it said: "Red Hat CEO: We don't need Microsoft to succeed" http://www.infoworld.com/article/2614357/linux/red-hat-ceo--we-don-t-need-microsoft-to-succeed.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2614357/linux/red-hat-ceo--... I don't see why you're quibbling about "late". It's a fact that it's more than three years later than a bunch of other versions. But hey, you can have your own spin.

gopowerranger 11y ago

Who forced this? It's way too early for me to make this comment, I think, but "Dinosaur's mating?". Square peg force fitting into round hole?

yxhuvud 11y ago

Now that is a headline that would have raised a few eyebrows 15 years ago.

frik 11y ago
In 2006 we had a similar headline. Microsoft partnered with Novell (SuSE Linux), and there was no happy end for one of them (Novell is no more; SuSE Linux once a major distribution next to RedHat is a shadow of its former self). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell#Agreement_with_Microsoft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell#Agreement_with_Microsof...
- bad_user 11y ago
  I remember that one. Many people were pissed off because that partnership included a patents agreement. This was because in the eyes of many, this meant an acknowledgement from Novell that Microsoft was in the right to claim patents infringement of Linux and SuSE Linux was then advertised as the safe distribution. Talk about a sure way to piss off your community.
  - rch 11y ago
    Not just an agreement, but also that 'Novell agreed to pay royalties to Microsoft based on Novell's open source sales'. http://www.infoworld.com/article/2654097/linux/the-microsoft-novell-linux-deal--two-years-later.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/2654097/linux/the-microsoft...
- dman 11y ago
  The interesting part was that from what I recall there were a couple of quarters where Microsoft's sales force sold more Novell licenses than their own sales force.
- lloydde 11y ago
  Worked out well for Xamarin. Also, it seems to me that SUSE is still in good shape, but didn't continued to grow like RedHat.

cdnsteve 11y ago

A cloud provider that offers Linux and Windows, this is cutting edge.

ceejayoz 11y ago
Sure, it's not cutting edge, but it's one of a bunch of signs recently that Microsoft has turned over a new leaf in the last few years. Visual Studio's page now mentions Git, a GPLed piece of software built for Linux kernel development. They've come a long way from "GPL is cancer!"
- u02sgb 11y ago
  And there's git-tf: http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=30474 http://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=3047... a command line git-alike that will work with a TFS server. Not nice to use, in my experience, but it is officially from MS.
- astine 11y ago
  Git is actually integrated in the latest VS and a lot of recent documentation assume that you are using it by default. Also, the latest release of ASP.NET MVC uses Bootstrap as its front end. That's not GPL, but it seems to be part of the larger trend of Microsoft integrating popular FOSS tools into their workflow where they can.
- CaptSpify 11y ago
  They have made improvements, but I still don't trust them. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. They laid a lot of groundwork for mistrust, so they'll have to undo that, and it won't be quick or easy IMO.
Mojah 11y ago
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or downright honest, so I'll just put it out there: we've had cloud providers offering both for at least 5+ years.
- 11y ago

af3 11y ago

> providing access to .NET technologies across Red Hat offerings, including OpenShift and Red Hat Enterprise Linux That can be huge! Imagine RH coming with .NET preinstalled. Next time I need to write a shell script, I might pick C#...

thebouv 11y ago

I'm not fooling myself into seeing this as anything but a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" setup. RedHat is getting a ton out of this, and so is Microsoft. Who's the main target for Azure? Enterprise companies who trust Microsoft implicitly. When an exec comes to the head of IT and says "we need to be on the cloud! I read about it!", Azure eases the transition by being able to go to vendor you've already been using for a dozen years. RedHat's core audience is enterprise as well. RHEL is the de facto standard for that level of infrastructure due to the support you can get versus any of the distributions that are equally as good, but minus the support contracts. So, they're helping each other out and that's good in my humble opinion. Microsoft's new direction under their new CEO is one surprise after another. I've only tinkered with Azure so far but makes me want to pay MS more attention than I would have a couple years ago.

illumen 11y ago
Azure is the OS. Red hat's stuff is the application.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- thebouv 11y ago
  Yes. And different Linux flavors were already on Azure as "applications" prior to this deal. But now RedHat is getting the official stamp. If Azure the OS only had Windows the App, that would be a great failing. MS is smart and playing Azure out to not just promote other MS products. Expanding it as an ecosystem for various OSes is a Good Thing.
  - acveilleux 11y ago
    Yes, besides any sufficiently lucrative enterprise customer is bound to have a few Lunix boxes for $ENTERPRISE_APP they can't live without. I say this as someone who works for an ISV that is single-handedly responsible for the only Linux servers most of our customers have.
deleted 11y ago

bitmapbrother 11y ago

Awesome. I can't wait to receive my Redhat voucher.

bechampion 11y ago

who uses redhat ? (im not being sarcastic)

auvi 11y ago
the US government is a big one.
goykasi 11y ago
Shops that actually want the support that Redhat provides, otherwise they would probably use Debian or Centos. I would assume Redhat-required shops would be running some pretty heavy, sophisticated workloads.
rdtsc 11y ago
Non-startup world uses Redhat. Amazon Linux is based on Redhat. CentOS is a Redhat recompile, so you can say anyone using that is also using "Redhat". US govt almost exclusively uses RHEL when they mean "Linux". Also banks, healthcare, etc.
bnastic 11y ago
"Enterprise". E.g. you won't find a bank that doesn't run RedHat. RedHat is Linux for enterprise people.
forgottenpass 11y ago
Generally speaking, entities where their professional administration teams need a *nix product with a strong reputation for dependability and the fall-back option of a support contact for when things go pear-shaped. This is vaguely referred to as "The Enterprise," because they tend to be large, low risk organizations with high user counts. RedHat's userbase is basically the opposite side of the spectrum from Ubuntu users flying by the seat of their pants with that popular free server thingie they heard about.
JustSomeNobody 11y ago
Enterprise. They don't buy into anything unless they can get "real" support (not just a few neckbeards telling them they can admin Linux).

diakritikal 11y ago

In the last 5 years we've experimented with Linux on top of hyper-v a few times. The basic I/O, compile & runtime performance was significantly inferior to xen & kvm (didn't bench against vmware, phasing it out due to cost), it wasn't worth any effort to even deploy apps for testing. Therefore I don't see Linux on hyper-v being a compelling option for the cost conscientious technical officer or lead engineer.

pweissbrod 11y ago
I find this interesting. I see many conflicting and biased studies comparing cloud/hypervisor performance. There are a great number of variables that come into play with configuring each hypervisor. Also, considering continual updates, a solid analysis 6 months ago may be stale. Not to mention most of the studies come from the vendors, not from independent parties. Question: does anyone know of an ongoing/reliable performance review of the major hypervisors?
aexaey 11y ago
I'm getting approximately the same CPU & storage performance out of Azure's A0 machine w/Debian8, as from AWS t2.micro instance with spinning rust storage and Debian8 (both are cheapest offer available, and price is quite similar between them). Network on Azure though is a totally wrecked thing: - A0 instance is capped to a miserable 5 megabit/s uplink (downlink is fine); - If you want TCP/UDP ports open, you need to open them one-by-one, going through a 2-page wizard with 8 fields in total to fill in for each port you are opening, and then waiting 15-20 seconds for each "change" to be applied. Good luck opening a 1024-port range for your SIP server; - You can't open ICMP/GRE/IPSEC or any other custom protocol; - There are ton of really weirdly configured network gear between your VM and the Internet - packet drops and private IPs in traceroute, etc... - On a plus side, you can enable so called "direct server return" and you will get incoming packets with your public IP as a destination IP; a really nice feature sorely missing on AWS.
- gruez 11y ago
  >A0 instance is capped to a miserable 5 megabit/s uplink (downlink is fine); I thought it was 10Mb/s? >If you want TCP/UDP ports open, you need to open them one-by-one, going through a 2-page wizard with 8 fields in total to fill in for each port you are opening, and then waiting 15-20 seconds for each "change" to be applied. Good luck opening a 1024-port range for your SIP server; ...or use the powershell cmdlets and do it in one line

technofiend 11y ago

I think this is just ticking a box for Microsoft since I believe you can get RH on AWS. But let's be honest - how many people will perceive any value in stacking a Microsoft technology (.NET) on top of UNIX? Sure if you already have a .NET app, hosting it in UNIX may give you some benefit. But is anyone really going to write an app from scratch with this in mind? I'm skeptical.

adrianlmm 11y ago
I would, .NET and the latest C# is awesome and superior to other frameworks, so yes, the fact that can run in Linux is something very atractive.
- jnericks 11y ago
  This, I've recently been writing more Java lately and I miss C# quite a bit
- mercurial 11y ago
  C# is a decent language if you like imperative programing. .NET MVC, though, is far from impressive. The routing is crap, Razor is designed to encourage you to dump C# straight into your views, and in general it feels like a "let's do Rails in C#", which I really don't see as the future of web development.
  - edgyswingset 11y ago
    You don't need to use ASP.NET MVC (or even ASP.NET at all) when writing something for the web. And if you like functional programming, use F#. It's pretty great.
  - adrianlmm 11y ago
    >C# is a decent language Just decent? I dissagree, it is the best language to my taste. >NET MVC, though, is far from impressive Tell me what is impressive them, becuase to me is a well stablished, easy to use and learn with static typing, there is nothing better. >The routing is crap The routing is highly configurable, by default it mimics Ruby on Rails routing and if you don't like it you can use your own, you have no idea of what are you talking about. >Razor is designed to encourage you to dump C# straight into your views Just like in JSP pages you can write Java code, or in ERB pages you can write Ruby code or in EJS pages yu can write JavaScript code, and if you don't like there a re plenty of options. >which I really don't see as the future of web development Your personal views are just that, personal, at least inform your self well before making ignorant statements.

striking 11y ago

Well, at least it explains systemd. /s

bitL 11y ago
Hahaha, came here to say exactly that. So, Red Hat is the next Nokia now?

jasonjei 11y ago

Microsoft did a partnership like this before with Apple (Microsoft Office) but it didn't turn out so well for Apple. Wondering what the outcome would be like with Satya in the driver's seat.

riskable 11y ago
A better comparison would be a situation where Microsoft partnered with a company over an operating system... Like IBM with OS/2 which turned out great, right? haha Or let's look at when Microsoft partnered with Novell: http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-makes-linux-pact-with-novell/ http://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-makes-linux-pact-with-nov... The byline from that article is classic! "Former software foes pledge to work together to help Windows world and Linux world interoperate." Turned out great for Novell, right? Hah! Does anyone use SuSE anymore? It's market is so tiny it's hard to find statistics for it. Other fun Microsoft partnerships: Nokia, Barnes & Noble, Best Buy, Yahoo, Nortel, Sendo, and probably dozens of smaller companies that came & went or are but a fraction of their former selves. A more interesting thing to track: How is the partnership with Microsoft working out for Docker? I'm really curious what the heck Microsoft is going to do in the next version of Windows Server to actually support realistic containerization.
- jasonjei 11y ago
  Thanks for all the examples where Microsoft pulled a Trojan. I totally agree. If Win32 embraces the Linux kernel calls to make Docker work without virtualization, is there a possible Embrace, Extend, and Extinguish plan? Or are businesses smart enough to avoid a repeat of ActiveX? Microsoft made a pact with Sun back in the day where they would support Java. If memory serves, Microsoft supported a Java that only worked on Win32 using J/Direct calls that natively supported Win32 instead of being OS independent like most Java apps.

decafbad 11y ago

"Unthinkable" This was title of Redhat's comment on Microsoft-Suse partnership.

mtgx 11y ago

Considering fewer enterprises trust Windows 10 with every new headline about how it spies on you, I guess they had no choice but to offer Linux as an option as well. Also relevant to "Microsoft's love for Linux": https://plus.google.com/+SimonPhipps/posts/c636Vp4kKbf https://plus.google.com/+SimonPhipps/posts/c636Vp4kKbf

scholia 11y ago
Windows 10 uptake is remarkably good on Windows 10, perhaps because enterprises don't fall for click-bait headlines. Microsoft Says 1.5 Million Enterprise Users Have Deployed Windows 10 https://redmondmag.com/blogs/the-schwartz-report/2015/08/enterprises-deployed-windows-10.aspx https://redmondmag.com/blogs/the-schwartz-report/2015/08/ent... Bank of America CTO Talks Windows 10 Plans, Security http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/executive-insights-and-innovation/bank-of-america-cto-talks-windows-10-plans-security-/d/d-id/1321721 http://www.informationweek.com/strategic-cio/executive-insig... "Reilly promised a Windows 10 upgrade is on the horizon for Bank of America. "We're looking to adopt as early as we can," he said. Such a project will be a massive undertaking given the sheer multitude of Windows devices within the organization, but he appears optimistic about the process." I was a Microsoft sceptic, but Windows 10 has me convinced http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/i-was-a-microsoft-sceptic-but-windows-10-has-me-convinced-20150817-gj1e5y.html http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/i-wa... "Then, last week, at an event hosted by CIO magazine, where I gave a keynote, I spoke to a group of Chief Information Officers of large and midsized companies about technology trends. The vast majority said they were buying Microsoft's Surface Pro tablets for their users and upgrading desktop machines to Windows 10." See also: Configure telemetry and other settings in your organization https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208%28v=vs.85%29.aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/mt577208%28v=vs....

rottyguy 11y ago

forgetting the cloud stuff for now, this is much more interesting: "Collaboration on .NET for a new generation of application development capabilities, providing access to .NET technologies across Red Hat offerings, including OpenShift and Red Hat Enterprise Linux, which will be available within the next few weeks." Xplat .net is coming to RC1 in a couple of weeks (per roadmap: https://github.com/aspnet/Home/wiki/Roadmap https://github.com/aspnet/Home/wiki/Roadmap) and it's exciting to see that RHEL will support it. It makes sense for Microsoft, traditionally an enterprise company on the backend, to partner with a *nix company with, primarily, enterprise clients on the backend. If nothing else, the toolset microsoft brings to the table will raise all boats on the -nix side IMO.

daveloyall 11y ago

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

kfcpanda 11y ago
Oh... you heard about that?

GPGPU 11y ago

You know, I'd love to see the Windows UI and experience on top of a solid Unix API. In fact, they can easily implement a full Linux API on top of the Windows API. Sort of what Apple did with Mach/NeXT. Microsoft could embrace and extend Linux and legitimize it.

ck2 11y ago

So next version of Windows getting systemd? Systemd would be right at home in Windows.

bovermyer 11y ago

For me, this piece was the most interesting: "Collaboration on .NET for a new generation of application development capabilities, providing access to .NET technologies across Red Hat offerings, including OpenShift and Red Hat Enterprise Linux, which will be available within the next few weeks." Further development of .NET as cross-platform, not just Windows-based? That could bode well for the stack. I doubt I'll ever write .NET code again, but this seems like a sensible decision to me.

rasz_pl 11y ago

Did/will Red Hat hire Miguel de Icaza next? First systemD, now this. Sounds like Suse/Novell.

erostrate 11y ago

"Linux is a cancer" Microsoft's CEO, 2001 (Steve Ballmer) Source: http://slashdot.org/story/01/06/01/1658258/ballmer-calls-linux-a-cancer http://slashdot.org/story/01/06/01/1658258/ballmer-calls-lin...

DigitalSea 11y ago

Here is a headline I never thought I would ever see. I guess from a business perspective this makes a tonne of sense. Red Hat is a massive player in the Linux market.