5 ms·

The friends I play Urb-X with are hyper aware that it's the heavier-than-air gasses that pool and that kill you. I find it amazing and depressing they didn't ha

The friends I play Urb-X with are hyper aware that it's the heavier-than-air gasses that pool and that kill you. I find it amazing and depressing they didn't have any sort of safety gear or air monitoring. In the UK, I'm sure this would have breached both working at height and enclosed spaces working regulations. Even if we're exploring something as pathetic as an old ROC bunker only _one_ of us (usually me) goes down first and is attached to the end of a rope. If I stop talking then the person topside can do what they like to try and get me out, but under no circumstances do they come down behind me. We've also usually got a third person sat in the van (so just off site) communicating with us via radio and with GPS coordinates and road directions written down ready to give to the emergency services should it all go entirely to hell... Sorry for the ramble; It's a horrible tragedy, but as what I've stated above is the level I expect for an unplanned slightly drunken Sunday-afternoon explore, I _really_ expect people in a commercial setting to know better. Probably more to the point, whoever ordered them to go in there deserves to be strung over the coals.... tldr: it's _really_ easy to go from 1 person slightly injured to multiple people dead :(

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Luc 11y ago
I've thought about getting a used H2S detector on eBay, but ideally you'd want to test and calibrate them, and there's the rub.
- BuildTheRobots 11y ago
  I've looked into it in the past and keep looking at atleast a £500 cost -usually more if you want O2, CO, CO2, H25 (I think those were the ones I decided I was interested in).... and _then_ there's the certification cost, so I really can't justify it (though I'd love to). My friends dad used to be a safety inspector duwnt' pit in the 70's and he's been trying to convince me to get an old Davy Lamp and to just pay attention to what the flame is doing, but I've yet to find a nice one (or inherit his). I have been known to ignite my cigarette lighter on every other rung when going down a ladder but in hindsight, that has the potential to end extremely badly.
  - e12e 11y ago
    Fun fact about CO, that may sometimes be overlooked: not only is it odourless and poisonous - but it's also highly flammable!
    - BuildTheRobots 11y ago
      Yeah, that's a very good point. It was suggested by an acquaintance that I just throw a lit sparkler down the hole before entering, which _almost_ made sense -though if I ever do manage to find a pocket of CO then it's going to make one heck of a mess.... Davy Lamp time it is then -big flame == big trouble and time to leave. I might have to start taking a household CO detector with me (the cheap ones now even have a PPM reading [1]) though I'm still wary of it giving a false sense of security and me then missing something else just as hazardous. Once again, Davy Lamp might be the solution to this -apparently the flame goes out when there's 17% oxygen or less, which is still life supporting. [1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mudder-Carbon-Monoxide-Alarm-Detector/dp/B00L8F3EKO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446649324&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=carbon+monoxide&psc=1 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mudder-Carbon-Monoxide-Alarm-Detecto...
      - e12e 11y ago
        You know, if you're doing work, or going into enclosed spaces, you really should just get the best gas detector you can get your hands on. It's a lot better than dying. I worked for a short time at an installation that refurbished small oil rigs. It's about the worst kind of modern work environment: lots of poisonous substances (eg. heavy oil/crude leftovers), welding in closed spaces, tight crawlspaces and the whole thing is a basically a set of Faraday cages, so both VHF and cell reception is pretty bad. Basically when you opened up a tank, you'd first have someone lower down a high precession meter to sample it over 12 hours. If that looked good, you have at least two gas meters per team, and the team is in constant contact with someone outside (either by said crappy VHF, and/or supplemented with a rope - pull the rope every minute - sound the alarm if the signalling stops, and send in a rescue team. If you figure an excellent 5 minutes from alarm to the team is inside, that's 6 minutes without air). Worst accident we had was due to faulty documentation: a rig had stopped over and done an undocumented paint job. A team was repainting that section, on the inside of an enclosed space (a shaft) while another team was doing hot work (welding and/or cutting) on the outside. The old paint on the inside had cadmium in it - the result was 5-7 people airlifted to the hospital with cyanide poisoning.
- rasz_pl 11y ago
  >used H2S detector gas detectors usually use active element and expire
Swannie 11y ago
Absolutely. This is also well known in the amateur caving community too, who follow similar practices to those outlined by yourself. I too find this crazy. As they say in the diving industry about water and confined spaces: a deceptively easy way to die.
- BuildTheRobots 11y ago
  I've just realised that the word document linked to actually seems to be dated 1974 (google makes it seem possible that the incident was 1971). It doesn't excuse anything but I like to think we've gotten a bit better since then. I get the impression in caving circles at least, "bad air" is much better understood these days. (irrelevant, but for the record, cave diving scares the pants off've me =) )
  - eddyg 11y ago
    An PDF scan[1] shows that it's from the Vol. 11, No. 3 ("Spring 1966") issue of "Michigan's Occupational Health". [1] http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/lara_miosha_moh_bulletin_vol11_no3_480542_7.pdf http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/lara_miosha_moh_bulle...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

Luc 11y ago

I've thought about getting a used H2S detector on eBay, but ideally you'd want to test and calibrate them, and there's the rub.

BuildTheRobots 11y ago
I've looked into it in the past and keep looking at atleast a £500 cost -usually more if you want O2, CO, CO2, H25 (I think those were the ones I decided I was interested in).... and _then_ there's the certification cost, so I really can't justify it (though I'd love to). My friends dad used to be a safety inspector duwnt' pit in the 70's and he's been trying to convince me to get an old Davy Lamp and to just pay attention to what the flame is doing, but I've yet to find a nice one (or inherit his). I have been known to ignite my cigarette lighter on every other rung when going down a ladder but in hindsight, that has the potential to end extremely badly.
- e12e 11y ago
  Fun fact about CO, that may sometimes be overlooked: not only is it odourless and poisonous - but it's also highly flammable!
  - BuildTheRobots 11y ago
    Yeah, that's a very good point. It was suggested by an acquaintance that I just throw a lit sparkler down the hole before entering, which _almost_ made sense -though if I ever do manage to find a pocket of CO then it's going to make one heck of a mess.... Davy Lamp time it is then -big flame == big trouble and time to leave. I might have to start taking a household CO detector with me (the cheap ones now even have a PPM reading [1]) though I'm still wary of it giving a false sense of security and me then missing something else just as hazardous. Once again, Davy Lamp might be the solution to this -apparently the flame goes out when there's 17% oxygen or less, which is still life supporting. [1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mudder-Carbon-Monoxide-Alarm-Detector/dp/B00L8F3EKO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446649324&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=carbon+monoxide&psc=1 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mudder-Carbon-Monoxide-Alarm-Detecto...
    - e12e 11y ago
      You know, if you're doing work, or going into enclosed spaces, you really should just get the best gas detector you can get your hands on. It's a lot better than dying. I worked for a short time at an installation that refurbished small oil rigs. It's about the worst kind of modern work environment: lots of poisonous substances (eg. heavy oil/crude leftovers), welding in closed spaces, tight crawlspaces and the whole thing is a basically a set of Faraday cages, so both VHF and cell reception is pretty bad. Basically when you opened up a tank, you'd first have someone lower down a high precession meter to sample it over 12 hours. If that looked good, you have at least two gas meters per team, and the team is in constant contact with someone outside (either by said crappy VHF, and/or supplemented with a rope - pull the rope every minute - sound the alarm if the signalling stops, and send in a rescue team. If you figure an excellent 5 minutes from alarm to the team is inside, that's 6 minutes without air). Worst accident we had was due to faulty documentation: a rig had stopped over and done an undocumented paint job. A team was repainting that section, on the inside of an enclosed space (a shaft) while another team was doing hot work (welding and/or cutting) on the outside. The old paint on the inside had cadmium in it - the result was 5-7 people airlifted to the hospital with cyanide poisoning.
rasz_pl 11y ago
>used H2S detector gas detectors usually use active element and expire

Swannie 11y ago

Absolutely. This is also well known in the amateur caving community too, who follow similar practices to those outlined by yourself. I too find this crazy. As they say in the diving industry about water and confined spaces: a deceptively easy way to die.

BuildTheRobots 11y ago
I've just realised that the word document linked to actually seems to be dated 1974 (google makes it seem possible that the incident was 1971). It doesn't excuse anything but I like to think we've gotten a bit better since then. I get the impression in caving circles at least, "bad air" is much better understood these days. (irrelevant, but for the record, cave diving scares the pants off've me =) )
- eddyg 11y ago
  An PDF scan[1] shows that it's from the Vol. 11, No. 3 ("Spring 1966") issue of "Michigan's Occupational Health". [1] http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/lara_miosha_moh_bulletin_vol11_no3_480542_7.pdf http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/lara_miosha_moh_bulle...