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Advice from my father-in-law, who is a prominent attorney: "Never, ever talk to the FBI without a lawyer - even if you want to help them as a witness... because

Advice from my father-in-law, who is a prominent attorney: "Never, ever talk to the FBI without a lawyer - even if you want to help them as a witness... because if they don't like the truth you're telling them, they can (and often do) say you lied to them which is a federal offense. If you have your attorney, they at least know there is a credible witness present who is keeping track of who said what."

ams6110 11y ago
This is good advice for talking to any law enforcement really. They are not on your side if they are asking you questions.
- mox1 11y ago
  Well this is especially (aka more) important when talking to a "Federal Agent". This can be US Marshals, Secret Service, Fish and Wildlife management, DEA, etc. (if you find yourself in this situation ask the person if they are an "1811" job series). Lying to a federal agent is always an actual felony (18 U.S.C. SECTION 1001). Lying to a local police officer, state patrol is not always a crime (local, state laws).
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    Don't lie? FBI would need to prove a lie anyway. Not the easiest thing. Edit: Some of these responses seem to be assuming "Don't lie" is the logical complement of "tell the truth". That is not the case. Anyway, "tell the truth" is not a real strategy. That is: the sentence is essentially meaningless. We already know that actual truth is impossible to capture.
    - fweespeech 11y ago
      Defense lawyers aren't free.
      - jsprogrammer 11y ago
        You cannot be denied one. Also: how does the advice "Don't lie" to the FBI get downmodded?
        gnaritas 11y ago
        Yea, the one you can't be denied is a public defender who sucks and only wants to plea you out. Don't lie is bad advice, good advice is don't speak at all; they are not your friends, and speaking at all allows them to lie about what you said and they don't have to prove anything to completely fuck your life up. Don't assume they're the good guys looking to solve a crime, they aren't; they're thugs looking to close cases by whatever means possible and they don't care if you're actually innocent, they don't care about you at all nor do they care about the truth.
        fweespeech 11y ago
        > You cannot be denied one. 1) You still have to pay for one. 2) If you are not a suspect, you don't get the right to an attorney in the way you imply which leaves you with no reliable, neutral witness to call upon. > Also: how does the advice "Don't lie" to the FBI get downmodded? Because its an open secret that the FBI isn't above twisting arms and bending rules to win their cases. One way to do that is to force you to defend yourself in court against a lie accusation which costs you 5 figures or rely on an overworked public defense attorney which is unlikely to have more than a couple hours on your case. Yeah. I don't think you have any practical experience in the way the system works. You don't want a public defender unless you have 100% incontrovertible proof you are innocent. At which point, the FBI wouldn't pull this shit anyway.
        mhuffman 11y ago
        > You cannot be denied one. Also, in many jurisdictions, you have to fill out a financial form for them to "determine" if you could afford an attorney on your on. If they decide that you can, regardless of your true finances, they can decline to provide a court-appointed attorney to you.
        11y ago
    - bmelton 11y ago
      So, you tell them the truth, and say "Sorry officer, I wasn't in town that day," only they later find out that there's an eyewitness who says that you were in town that day, and your credit card purchases show you buying a cup of coffee a few blocks from where the eyewitness saw you. It doesn't matter that the eyewitness was mistaken, and just saw someone who looked like you who drove a similar looking vehicle, or that the purchase was made by your wife who was borrowing your credit card, because that coffee shop didn't have security cameras proving one way or the other. At the end of the day, you're looked at as guilty, for a time at least, and possibly forever. You have to waste your every spare dollar hiring a defense attorney to prove your innocence. You have to fend off mobs of social justice warriors who have ruined your reputation on the internet and real life, who may have lowered your business' Yelp score to approximately zero. You have to find a new job, because your old one fired you once you were indicted, and the newspapers justified them by placing your picture on the front page as the guilty party, but only printing the retraction months later on page 18. And this is of course a scenario predicated on the notion that your attorney is able to actually get you found innocent, and you aren't further hindered by spending decades in prison for a crime you didn't commit.
      - jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Hmm. I didn't say "tell the truth". I said "Don't lie". You may construe that however you want, I guess. I don't see how all of what you described couldn't also happen if you just didn't say anything. The difference would be that you now have no contradictory statements or evidence.
        ergothus 11y ago
        If you've made no statements, you can't be charged with lying (whether the charge is actually true or not), unless you say they lie about you making statements.
        bmelton 11y ago
        It seems like the easiest way to not lie is to not talk. YMMV.
    - kefka 11y ago
      "You wouldn't be there if you weren't guilty." I've heard this line from people who've served on juries before.
      - jsprogrammer 11y ago
        Grounds for an immediate approval of a mistrial motion.
        kbenson 11y ago
        Which is irrelevant to the point I think is being made. People sometimes believe this, and if the facts can be twisted to put you in front of a jury as a defendant, it's not good for you. Whether this statement would cause a mistrial doesn't help you if it's stated to some non-involved party twenty years later and you've already served your time, or even if you are still in prison and the person saying and the person hearing that statement have no incentive to notify someone who can and will do something about it.
        kefka 11y ago
        Too true. I know a person who said that, but I don't know which state, which county, when, or what they served as juror. Are the accused still in prison, or have they served time and done? And it's hear-say. I have no recording of what they said. But still, miscarriage of justice is still done. And with numbers showing federal cases end up in the +95% conviction, sure seems the quote is the majority thought. Even if it is completely wrong.
    - kzhahou 11y ago
      You were downvoted, but I'm upvoting you because yours is a common argument, and people should see the replies here. Watch this video explaining how you can still be put in a difficult position, even when telling the truth: http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2013/05/08/why-you-shouldnt-talk-to-law-enforcement-without-a-lawyer/ http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2013/05/08/why-you-shoul...
      - GhotiFish 11y ago
        Downvote to disagree is a very bad system, though it's not explicitly discouraged in HN. That just seems bonkers to me.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Its actually the norm here, an expected behavior according to the originators of HN, so of course not discouraged at all. It takes some getting used to. But as long as you're not rude or profane, the numbers eventually take care of themselves.
        throwastone 11y ago
        Ooo, this inspires a good idea: a multi-dimensional voting based forum. You can up and downvote based on things like veracity, tact, agree/disagree with position, etc.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        GhotiFish 11y ago
        I think that's slashdot.
        throwastone 11y ago
        Checking slashdot, they appear to have filters in their comments for things like 'insightful' and 'imformative'. Thinking more along the lines of being able to rate things like the veracity and tact of the response, with automatic filtering and prevalence based on a few metrics.
    - sitkack 11y ago
      Agents are deemed reliable and often don't need proof. Their word is good enough to the courts.
      - dragonwriter 11y ago
        The testimony of any witness is admissible in court; agents aren't special here. Whether the agent's testimony is sufficient evidence depends on the jury and the context.
    - tsotha 11y ago
      Martha Stewart was convicted based on an investigator's memory and the notes he had written in his notebook. It wasn't what she said, but what she said in someone else's words. Do you really want to bet your freedom on the basis of someone else's interpretation of what you said?
  - tadfisher 11y ago
    This is how Martha Stewart was imprisoned. The securities fraud charges could not be substantiated and were thrown out, so they continued her case on, among other "meta"-crimes, making false statements to a federal agent. Moreover, since she lied to SEC investigators involved in her case, prosecutors could easily tack on an obstruction charge. And since her business partners lied as well, a conspiracy charge was on the table. If you don't speak, you cannot lie.
    - Zikes 11y ago
      Also a great example of how vindictive the justice system can be. Once you're a part of the process they will have decided that you are guilty and deserving of punishment, and they will seek out any avenue of attack they can.
      - 33W 11y ago
        I've recently listened to the podcast Serial, and another called Undisclosed about the 1999 murder of a high school girl in Baltimore. Really interesting listen, and a of a scary view into the criminal justice system.
        mooreds 11y ago
        "The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine." Exceedingly.
  - tsotha 11y ago
    This is as good a place as any to re-post this: http://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/how-to-avoid-going-to-jail-under-18-u-s-c-section-1001-for-lying.html http://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/how-to-avoi...
- dccoolgai 11y ago
  This is true. If a local cop doesn't like what you're telling him, it's a lot more difficult for him to charge you with a felony, though. Witnesses for the FBI sometimes find themselves in the predicament of having to either agree to a heavily "edited" version of their testimony - or face felony charges. I would agree that it's not a bad idea to have an attorney present in either case - they have the effect of "keeping them honest", but you can decide to "help" a local detective with very little risk of you being made into a felon. Not so for the FBI.
  - Johnny555 11y ago
    "This is true. If a local cop doesn't like what you're telling him, it's a lot more difficult for him to charge you with a felony, though." Is it? How hard would it be for him to "find" enough drugs in your car to charge you with felony possession? Or charge you with assault against a police officer? (what assault? The one that he and his colleagues just "witnessed" while you claim you were handcuffed to a chair - who is the jury going to believe? You or 5 uniformed police officers who "saw" the whole thing?) Better hope you don't "steal" his gun and end up dead in a self-defense shooting. There's a lot that a local cop can do to make your life miserable if he's not bound by law (or ethics) Don't count on police cameras to keep you safe since they can "malfunction" when the video they capture may be inconvenient like "officials say all seven dashboard cameras in the police cruisers coincidentally malfunctioned." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/03/26/police-cameras-are-great-except-when-the-video-goes-missing/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/03/26/...)
    - yourepowerless 11y ago
      indeed, all those Chicago cops using their blacksite didn't seem to have any trouble doing what they please to their victims, including murdering them.
      - avn2109 11y ago
        Unclear why this is getting downvoted, I googled and found reputable sources verifying the OP's claim. [0] [0] http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-polic...
- rhino369 11y ago
  >They are not on your side if they are asking you questions. It really depends on whether you are a suspect. If you saw someone get murdered by another person, who you don't know, then you really have nothing to fear. You can still get a lawyer if you want, but paying $300 an hour to report a crime is probably a waste of your money. But if there is any chance you could be considered a suspect, you should get a lawyer. I might agree with federal agents always necessitating a lawyer because they don't fuck around. But state police aren't going to drum up a case about lying to police because they didn't like your answers.
  - gnaritas 11y ago
    > If you saw someone get murdered by another person, who you don't know, then you really have nothing to fear. Not at all true; they could very well try and make a case against you. You always have something to fear when dealing with cops/fbi, they don't care about the truth, they care about closing cases.
  - ams6110 11y ago
    If you "saw someone get murdered" you are going to be considered a suspect to some degree. Moreso than someone who knows nothing about the crime, anyway.
- swampthinker 11y ago
  There is a very good video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
  - rconti 11y ago
    One of my favorites of all time. Everybody should watch this at least once.
guelo 11y ago
You can't lie to them but they can lie to you.
bmelton 11y ago
Obligatory link, and should be required listening for all American citizens, especially those who watch TV shows like Law & Order and the like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
Estragon 11y ago
Can't you achieve the same result by simply insisting on recording any conversation you have with them? Actually, doesn't the FBI routinely record all conversations now?
backtoyoujim 11y ago
And always make sure you record it with your device. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgDsbjAYXcQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgDsbjAYXcQ
1024core 11y ago
That's all fine and good if you're in the US. But this article is not about that. From the article: > They [FBI] denied his requests for access to a phone so that he could contact a lawyer and, he says, frequently threatened him with torture and told him that he would “disappear” if he didn’t cooperate. When faced with a threat of torture, the "do not talk to the FBI without a lawyer" idea quickly disappears.
- dccoolgai 11y ago
  Yeah, I realize this advice probably wouldn't have helped this particular guy that much - It was just strongly counter-intuitive to me that you can be framed as a felon for even trying to help an investigation. My FIL said something along the lines of "the best thing to say, if you can, is 'My attorney knows I'm here and he wants us to call him right away so we can start helping your investigation as quickly as possible.'" I don't know if that would have helped this guy or not. If they have you bound and gagged in some third world country, maybe all bets are off.
tn13 11y ago
That is an extremely sound advice whenever you speak to any police. Excellent video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
naveen99 11y ago
If they can lie about you lying to them, having a lawyer isn't going To protect you. They can just say you lied to them when they talked to you some other time without lawyer present. If all you need is a witness, why not record the conversation on your phone. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

ams6110 11y ago

This is good advice for talking to any law enforcement really. They are not on your side if they are asking you questions.

mox1 11y ago
Well this is especially (aka more) important when talking to a "Federal Agent". This can be US Marshals, Secret Service, Fish and Wildlife management, DEA, etc. (if you find yourself in this situation ask the person if they are an "1811" job series). Lying to a federal agent is always an actual felony (18 U.S.C. SECTION 1001). Lying to a local police officer, state patrol is not always a crime (local, state laws).
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  Don't lie? FBI would need to prove a lie anyway. Not the easiest thing. Edit: Some of these responses seem to be assuming "Don't lie" is the logical complement of "tell the truth". That is not the case. Anyway, "tell the truth" is not a real strategy. That is: the sentence is essentially meaningless. We already know that actual truth is impossible to capture.
  - fweespeech 11y ago
    Defense lawyers aren't free.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      You cannot be denied one. Also: how does the advice "Don't lie" to the FBI get downmodded?
      - gnaritas 11y ago
        Yea, the one you can't be denied is a public defender who sucks and only wants to plea you out. Don't lie is bad advice, good advice is don't speak at all; they are not your friends, and speaking at all allows them to lie about what you said and they don't have to prove anything to completely fuck your life up. Don't assume they're the good guys looking to solve a crime, they aren't; they're thugs looking to close cases by whatever means possible and they don't care if you're actually innocent, they don't care about you at all nor do they care about the truth.
      - fweespeech 11y ago
        > You cannot be denied one. 1) You still have to pay for one. 2) If you are not a suspect, you don't get the right to an attorney in the way you imply which leaves you with no reliable, neutral witness to call upon. > Also: how does the advice "Don't lie" to the FBI get downmodded? Because its an open secret that the FBI isn't above twisting arms and bending rules to win their cases. One way to do that is to force you to defend yourself in court against a lie accusation which costs you 5 figures or rely on an overworked public defense attorney which is unlikely to have more than a couple hours on your case. Yeah. I don't think you have any practical experience in the way the system works. You don't want a public defender unless you have 100% incontrovertible proof you are innocent. At which point, the FBI wouldn't pull this shit anyway.
        mhuffman 11y ago
        > You cannot be denied one. Also, in many jurisdictions, you have to fill out a financial form for them to "determine" if you could afford an attorney on your on. If they decide that you can, regardless of your true finances, they can decline to provide a court-appointed attorney to you.
        11y ago
  - bmelton 11y ago
    So, you tell them the truth, and say "Sorry officer, I wasn't in town that day," only they later find out that there's an eyewitness who says that you were in town that day, and your credit card purchases show you buying a cup of coffee a few blocks from where the eyewitness saw you. It doesn't matter that the eyewitness was mistaken, and just saw someone who looked like you who drove a similar looking vehicle, or that the purchase was made by your wife who was borrowing your credit card, because that coffee shop didn't have security cameras proving one way or the other. At the end of the day, you're looked at as guilty, for a time at least, and possibly forever. You have to waste your every spare dollar hiring a defense attorney to prove your innocence. You have to fend off mobs of social justice warriors who have ruined your reputation on the internet and real life, who may have lowered your business' Yelp score to approximately zero. You have to find a new job, because your old one fired you once you were indicted, and the newspapers justified them by placing your picture on the front page as the guilty party, but only printing the retraction months later on page 18. And this is of course a scenario predicated on the notion that your attorney is able to actually get you found innocent, and you aren't further hindered by spending decades in prison for a crime you didn't commit.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Hmm. I didn't say "tell the truth". I said "Don't lie". You may construe that however you want, I guess. I don't see how all of what you described couldn't also happen if you just didn't say anything. The difference would be that you now have no contradictory statements or evidence.
      - ergothus 11y ago
        If you've made no statements, you can't be charged with lying (whether the charge is actually true or not), unless you say they lie about you making statements.
      - bmelton 11y ago
        It seems like the easiest way to not lie is to not talk. YMMV.
  - kefka 11y ago
    "You wouldn't be there if you weren't guilty." I've heard this line from people who've served on juries before.
    - jsprogrammer 11y ago
      Grounds for an immediate approval of a mistrial motion.
      - kbenson 11y ago
        Which is irrelevant to the point I think is being made. People sometimes believe this, and if the facts can be twisted to put you in front of a jury as a defendant, it's not good for you. Whether this statement would cause a mistrial doesn't help you if it's stated to some non-involved party twenty years later and you've already served your time, or even if you are still in prison and the person saying and the person hearing that statement have no incentive to notify someone who can and will do something about it.
        kefka 11y ago
        Too true. I know a person who said that, but I don't know which state, which county, when, or what they served as juror. Are the accused still in prison, or have they served time and done? And it's hear-say. I have no recording of what they said. But still, miscarriage of justice is still done. And with numbers showing federal cases end up in the +95% conviction, sure seems the quote is the majority thought. Even if it is completely wrong.
  - kzhahou 11y ago
    You were downvoted, but I'm upvoting you because yours is a common argument, and people should see the replies here. Watch this video explaining how you can still be put in a difficult position, even when telling the truth: http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2013/05/08/why-you-shouldnt-talk-to-law-enforcement-without-a-lawyer/ http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2013/05/08/why-you-shoul...
    - GhotiFish 11y ago
      Downvote to disagree is a very bad system, though it's not explicitly discouraged in HN. That just seems bonkers to me.
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Its actually the norm here, an expected behavior according to the originators of HN, so of course not discouraged at all. It takes some getting used to. But as long as you're not rude or profane, the numbers eventually take care of themselves.
      - throwastone 11y ago
        Ooo, this inspires a good idea: a multi-dimensional voting based forum. You can up and downvote based on things like veracity, tact, agree/disagree with position, etc.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        GhotiFish 11y ago
        I think that's slashdot.
        throwastone 11y ago
        Checking slashdot, they appear to have filters in their comments for things like 'insightful' and 'imformative'. Thinking more along the lines of being able to rate things like the veracity and tact of the response, with automatic filtering and prevalence based on a few metrics.
  - sitkack 11y ago
    Agents are deemed reliable and often don't need proof. Their word is good enough to the courts.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      The testimony of any witness is admissible in court; agents aren't special here. Whether the agent's testimony is sufficient evidence depends on the jury and the context.
  - tsotha 11y ago
    Martha Stewart was convicted based on an investigator's memory and the notes he had written in his notebook. It wasn't what she said, but what she said in someone else's words. Do you really want to bet your freedom on the basis of someone else's interpretation of what you said?
- tadfisher 11y ago
  This is how Martha Stewart was imprisoned. The securities fraud charges could not be substantiated and were thrown out, so they continued her case on, among other "meta"-crimes, making false statements to a federal agent. Moreover, since she lied to SEC investigators involved in her case, prosecutors could easily tack on an obstruction charge. And since her business partners lied as well, a conspiracy charge was on the table. If you don't speak, you cannot lie.
  - Zikes 11y ago
    Also a great example of how vindictive the justice system can be. Once you're a part of the process they will have decided that you are guilty and deserving of punishment, and they will seek out any avenue of attack they can.
    - 33W 11y ago
      I've recently listened to the podcast Serial, and another called Undisclosed about the 1999 murder of a high school girl in Baltimore. Really interesting listen, and a of a scary view into the criminal justice system.
      - mooreds 11y ago
        "The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine." Exceedingly.
- tsotha 11y ago
  This is as good a place as any to re-post this: http://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/how-to-avoid-going-to-jail-under-18-u-s-c-section-1001-for-lying.html http://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/how-to-avoi...
dccoolgai 11y ago
This is true. If a local cop doesn't like what you're telling him, it's a lot more difficult for him to charge you with a felony, though. Witnesses for the FBI sometimes find themselves in the predicament of having to either agree to a heavily "edited" version of their testimony - or face felony charges. I would agree that it's not a bad idea to have an attorney present in either case - they have the effect of "keeping them honest", but you can decide to "help" a local detective with very little risk of you being made into a felon. Not so for the FBI.
- Johnny555 11y ago
  "This is true. If a local cop doesn't like what you're telling him, it's a lot more difficult for him to charge you with a felony, though." Is it? How hard would it be for him to "find" enough drugs in your car to charge you with felony possession? Or charge you with assault against a police officer? (what assault? The one that he and his colleagues just "witnessed" while you claim you were handcuffed to a chair - who is the jury going to believe? You or 5 uniformed police officers who "saw" the whole thing?) Better hope you don't "steal" his gun and end up dead in a self-defense shooting. There's a lot that a local cop can do to make your life miserable if he's not bound by law (or ethics) Don't count on police cameras to keep you safe since they can "malfunction" when the video they capture may be inconvenient like "officials say all seven dashboard cameras in the police cruisers coincidentally malfunctioned." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/03/26/police-cameras-are-great-except-when-the-video-goes-missing/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/03/26/...)
  - yourepowerless 11y ago
    indeed, all those Chicago cops using their blacksite didn't seem to have any trouble doing what they please to their victims, including murdering them.
    - avn2109 11y ago
      Unclear why this is getting downvoted, I googled and found reputable sources verifying the OP's claim. [0] [0] http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-polic...
rhino369 11y ago
>They are not on your side if they are asking you questions. It really depends on whether you are a suspect. If you saw someone get murdered by another person, who you don't know, then you really have nothing to fear. You can still get a lawyer if you want, but paying $300 an hour to report a crime is probably a waste of your money. But if there is any chance you could be considered a suspect, you should get a lawyer. I might agree with federal agents always necessitating a lawyer because they don't fuck around. But state police aren't going to drum up a case about lying to police because they didn't like your answers.
- gnaritas 11y ago
  > If you saw someone get murdered by another person, who you don't know, then you really have nothing to fear. Not at all true; they could very well try and make a case against you. You always have something to fear when dealing with cops/fbi, they don't care about the truth, they care about closing cases.
- ams6110 11y ago
  If you "saw someone get murdered" you are going to be considered a suspect to some degree. Moreso than someone who knows nothing about the crime, anyway.
swampthinker 11y ago
There is a very good video on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
- rconti 11y ago
  One of my favorites of all time. Everybody should watch this at least once.

guelo 11y ago

You can't lie to them but they can lie to you.

bmelton 11y ago

Obligatory link, and should be required listening for all American citizens, especially those who watch TV shows like Law & Order and the like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Estragon 11y ago

Can't you achieve the same result by simply insisting on recording any conversation you have with them? Actually, doesn't the FBI routinely record all conversations now?

backtoyoujim 11y ago

And always make sure you record it with your device. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgDsbjAYXcQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgDsbjAYXcQ

1024core 11y ago

That's all fine and good if you're in the US. But this article is not about that. From the article: > They [FBI] denied his requests for access to a phone so that he could contact a lawyer and, he says, frequently threatened him with torture and told him that he would “disappear” if he didn’t cooperate. When faced with a threat of torture, the "do not talk to the FBI without a lawyer" idea quickly disappears.

dccoolgai 11y ago
Yeah, I realize this advice probably wouldn't have helped this particular guy that much - It was just strongly counter-intuitive to me that you can be framed as a felon for even trying to help an investigation. My FIL said something along the lines of "the best thing to say, if you can, is 'My attorney knows I'm here and he wants us to call him right away so we can start helping your investigation as quickly as possible.'" I don't know if that would have helped this guy or not. If they have you bound and gagged in some third world country, maybe all bets are off.

tn13 11y ago

That is an extremely sound advice whenever you speak to any police. Excellent video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

naveen99 11y ago

If they can lie about you lying to them, having a lawyer isn't going To protect you. They can just say you lied to them when they talked to you some other time without lawyer present. If all you need is a witness, why not record the conversation on your phone. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.