9 ms·

Men account for 76% of suicides in 2014

60 points by yitchelle 11y ago

dracht 11y ago
That sucks, but let us talk about the real social issues, like guys spreading their legs on the metro and scantily clad female characters in video games.
- EliRivers 11y ago
  Those issues do affect a lot more people. I certainly find them a bigger hardship in my life than suicide.
DanBC 11y ago
Suicidal thinking is always significant. If you're having thoughts of suicide please seek help. Suicide in the UK is the leading cause of death in men under 45. The cause of the disparity between male and female deaths is not fully understood. We think it's a combination of lethality of method (men tend to use methods that are harder to survive) and lack of male help seeking (although we've recently seen a rise in death among men who are already known to MH services). But there's probably other stuff going on too. Suicide statistics in the UK come from the Office for National Statistics. So they are accurate and robust and clearly defined, but it helps to know what the definition is so you know where the stats are wrong. For example: a death that is counted as suicide in someone over 15 may not be counted as suicide in someone under 15. Methods come from ICD10 classifications. http://ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Suicide+Rates http://ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Suicide+Rates http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_395145.pdf http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_395145.pdf Other information about suicide is listed in the National Confidential Inquiry http://www.bbmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs http://www.bbmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs If you're in England there's a national suicide prevention strategy, and each local authority should also have a local suicide prevention strategy. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suicide-prevention-strategy-for-england https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suicide-preventio... CALMZone is a respected UK charity aiming to reduce male suicide. (Perhaps similar to the (robustly named!) Australian group "Soften the Fuck Up" http://softenthefckup.spurprojects.org/ http://softenthefckup.spurprojects.org/ ) They've recently launched an interesting twitter based campaign. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10491576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10491576 https://www.thecalmzone.net/2015/11/big-news-calm-and-lynx-launch-bigger-issues-campaign/ https://www.thecalmzone.net/2015/11/big-news-calm-and-lynx-l...
cryoshon 11y ago
"The research appeared to reinforce the societal view that men don’t talk about suicidal thoughts because they don’t want to worry family or friends." Yeah, just another symptom of the whole "gotta be macho or else I'm not a real man(tm)" phenomenon which kills men in more ways than just suicide. Men also don't go to the doctor or confide in others for emotional support as much, instead opting to "man up" directly into a shorter lifespan than women. Women egg men into this by overtly preferring brutish unexpressiveness as it's "more masculine", but at the end of the day it's mostly men bullying each other starting from birth when this code is violated. Men are expected to rarely, if ever, dip into their emotional support structure-- this makes it largely useless. You're just expected to deal with it, repress those emotions, and put on a brave face to carry on. Aside from machismo and being discouraged from getting help from anyone, men are frequently burdened by the responsibility to provide for their family, which is considered their primary (only) purpose. If a man loses his job, it's an affront to his worth as a human being. This is why middle aged men frequently kill themselves when they lose their job or are having trouble paying off their house; they suffer deeply and largely silently for perceived failures of manhood. The suicidal want an escape from their suffering, and as I've said before, there's really no way for men to ease their suffering in an acceptable way. Drugs and whatever are helpful, but ultimately aren't enough.
- jazzyk 11y ago
  All very true. Perhaps men are more suicidal because the deck is stacked against them: - 93% of workers who died at work due to fatal accidents or violence were male - 77% of males are genitally mutilated at birth (in the US), female mutilation is illegal - 29% of male first-time offenders were sentenced to custody. For women, that figure was 17%. Men have a 62% chance of being bailed, while for women that figure is 80% - men are as likely as women to be victims of domestic abuse - men are more likely to be made redundant and less likely to be re-employed than women - 90% of homeless are male But I hear there is this "war on women" going on...
  - lujim 11y ago
    As a male with only brothers I always thought men had things worse. We are expected to do 100% of "Man's work" and 50% of everything else "Shared work". The concept of "Women's work" is seen as a very outdated and offensive. As a male you aren't suppose to complain or ask for help so you don't. It seems like a raw deal... Now that I have a wife and a daughter I realize that women often have it worse than men (in terms of general happiness). Not because of men but because of how complex their relationships with other women/groups of women are. They are brutal to each other and spend tons of energy undermining each others confidence and playing micro social games of exclusion and humiliation for virtually no gain. I feel sad to know that my daughter will have to endure the slings and arrows of "Frenemies" as she grows up, and that she may well dish it out to some other poor girl.
mamon 11y ago
According to [1] women make twice as much suicide attempts than men. The point is, since women usually choose less brutal methods of committing suicide they have much lower "success rate". [1]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.ht...
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago
  The dead can't make another attempt. Personally, I find the 'who attempts more' misleading because it counts a successful attempt as equal to an unsuccessful attempt when trying to compare the problems. Also, wouldn't a better metric be which group had more people who attempted at least once, as that counts the same regardless if it was 1 successful attempt or 10 failed ones.
joesmo 11y ago
I don't know about the UK, but in the US talking to people about this is likely to lead to losing your freedom (getting committed and losing other rights such as gun ownership) so I'm not surprised that most people, men or women, avoid talking about this entirely, and certainly never with a "professional."
- DanBC 11y ago
  Yes, people's fear of what MH treatment involves is one barrier that causes avoidable harm. Suicidal thinking covers a range of severity. In England you are unlikely to be detained in hospital against your will (detained under section of the mental health act; "sectioned") or admitted informally to a mental health hospital for suicidal thinking unless you're at the most severe end. This is partly because there is a lack of inpatient beds, but also because inpatient treatment isn't suitable for many people and you should get better results from outpatient treatment. (Although there are pressures there too). There is anonymous support available from the Samaritans or CALMZone. Or you could see your GP, who would probably (hopefully) refer you to your local crisis team or MH gateway team.
tsotha 11y ago
The women I've known who "attempted" suicide weren't really trying to kill themselves. It was either attention seeking behavior or an attempt to punish people in their social circle. IMO it's more a question of intent than method.
- DanBC 11y ago
  That's not what the research shows. Your comment is strongly stigmatising of people in psychiatric distress.
  - tsotha 11y ago
    And yet the numbers back my interpretation.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      No they don't. Show which numbers you mean.
      - tsotha 11y ago
        Did you read the title of this post?
        DanBC 11y ago
        How does the title of this post support your unpleasant suggestion that women who attempt suicide are not serious in their attempt (your use of scare quotes is fucking disgusting, BTW) and were doing it to seek attention or to punish people - it is this attention seeking / punishing behaviour that I'm trying to get you to support with any evidence.
        tsotha 11y ago
        You need to calm down. I made that statement based on personal experience and that I find laughable the idea that women are somehow too incompetent to kill themselves. What does that leave?

60 points by yitchelle 11y ago

That sucks, but let us talk about the real social issues, like guys spreading their legs on the metro and scantily clad female characters in video games.

EliRivers 11y ago
Those issues do affect a lot more people. I certainly find them a bigger hardship in my life than suicide.

DanBC 11y ago

Suicidal thinking is always significant. If you're having thoughts of suicide please seek help. Suicide in the UK is the leading cause of death in men under 45. The cause of the disparity between male and female deaths is not fully understood. We think it's a combination of lethality of method (men tend to use methods that are harder to survive) and lack of male help seeking (although we've recently seen a rise in death among men who are already known to MH services). But there's probably other stuff going on too. Suicide statistics in the UK come from the Office for National Statistics. So they are accurate and robust and clearly defined, but it helps to know what the definition is so you know where the stats are wrong. For example: a death that is counted as suicide in someone over 15 may not be counted as suicide in someone under 15. Methods come from ICD10 classifications. http://ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Suicide+Rates http://ons.gov.uk/ons/taxonomy/index.html?nscl=Suicide+Rates http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_395145.pdf http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_395145.pdf Other information about suicide is listed in the National Confidential Inquiry http://www.bbmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs http://www.bbmh.manchester.ac.uk/cmhs If you're in England there's a national suicide prevention strategy, and each local authority should also have a local suicide prevention strategy. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suicide-prevention-strategy-for-england https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/suicide-preventio... CALMZone is a respected UK charity aiming to reduce male suicide. (Perhaps similar to the (robustly named!) Australian group "Soften the Fuck Up" http://softenthefckup.spurprojects.org/ http://softenthefckup.spurprojects.org/ ) They've recently launched an interesting twitter based campaign. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10491576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10491576 https://www.thecalmzone.net/2015/11/big-news-calm-and-lynx-launch-bigger-issues-campaign/ https://www.thecalmzone.net/2015/11/big-news-calm-and-lynx-l...

cryoshon 11y ago

"The research appeared to reinforce the societal view that men don’t talk about suicidal thoughts because they don’t want to worry family or friends." Yeah, just another symptom of the whole "gotta be macho or else I'm not a real man(tm)" phenomenon which kills men in more ways than just suicide. Men also don't go to the doctor or confide in others for emotional support as much, instead opting to "man up" directly into a shorter lifespan than women. Women egg men into this by overtly preferring brutish unexpressiveness as it's "more masculine", but at the end of the day it's mostly men bullying each other starting from birth when this code is violated. Men are expected to rarely, if ever, dip into their emotional support structure-- this makes it largely useless. You're just expected to deal with it, repress those emotions, and put on a brave face to carry on. Aside from machismo and being discouraged from getting help from anyone, men are frequently burdened by the responsibility to provide for their family, which is considered their primary (only) purpose. If a man loses his job, it's an affront to his worth as a human being. This is why middle aged men frequently kill themselves when they lose their job or are having trouble paying off their house; they suffer deeply and largely silently for perceived failures of manhood. The suicidal want an escape from their suffering, and as I've said before, there's really no way for men to ease their suffering in an acceptable way. Drugs and whatever are helpful, but ultimately aren't enough.

jazzyk 11y ago
All very true. Perhaps men are more suicidal because the deck is stacked against them: - 93% of workers who died at work due to fatal accidents or violence were male - 77% of males are genitally mutilated at birth (in the US), female mutilation is illegal - 29% of male first-time offenders were sentenced to custody. For women, that figure was 17%. Men have a 62% chance of being bailed, while for women that figure is 80% - men are as likely as women to be victims of domestic abuse - men are more likely to be made redundant and less likely to be re-employed than women - 90% of homeless are male But I hear there is this "war on women" going on...
- lujim 11y ago
  As a male with only brothers I always thought men had things worse. We are expected to do 100% of "Man's work" and 50% of everything else "Shared work". The concept of "Women's work" is seen as a very outdated and offensive. As a male you aren't suppose to complain or ask for help so you don't. It seems like a raw deal... Now that I have a wife and a daughter I realize that women often have it worse than men (in terms of general happiness). Not because of men but because of how complex their relationships with other women/groups of women are. They are brutal to each other and spend tons of energy undermining each others confidence and playing micro social games of exclusion and humiliation for virtually no gain. I feel sad to know that my daughter will have to endure the slings and arrows of "Frenemies" as she grows up, and that she may well dish it out to some other poor girl.

mamon 11y ago

According to [1] women make twice as much suicide attempts than men. The point is, since women usually choose less brutal methods of committing suicide they have much lower "success rate". [1]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.htm http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/11/981112075159.ht...

Lawtonfogle 11y ago
The dead can't make another attempt. Personally, I find the 'who attempts more' misleading because it counts a successful attempt as equal to an unsuccessful attempt when trying to compare the problems. Also, wouldn't a better metric be which group had more people who attempted at least once, as that counts the same regardless if it was 1 successful attempt or 10 failed ones.

joesmo 11y ago

I don't know about the UK, but in the US talking to people about this is likely to lead to losing your freedom (getting committed and losing other rights such as gun ownership) so I'm not surprised that most people, men or women, avoid talking about this entirely, and certainly never with a "professional."

DanBC 11y ago
Yes, people's fear of what MH treatment involves is one barrier that causes avoidable harm. Suicidal thinking covers a range of severity. In England you are unlikely to be detained in hospital against your will (detained under section of the mental health act; "sectioned") or admitted informally to a mental health hospital for suicidal thinking unless you're at the most severe end. This is partly because there is a lack of inpatient beds, but also because inpatient treatment isn't suitable for many people and you should get better results from outpatient treatment. (Although there are pressures there too). There is anonymous support available from the Samaritans or CALMZone. Or you could see your GP, who would probably (hopefully) refer you to your local crisis team or MH gateway team.

tsotha 11y ago

The women I've known who "attempted" suicide weren't really trying to kill themselves. It was either attention seeking behavior or an attempt to punish people in their social circle. IMO it's more a question of intent than method.

DanBC 11y ago
That's not what the research shows. Your comment is strongly stigmatising of people in psychiatric distress.
- tsotha 11y ago
  And yet the numbers back my interpretation.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    No they don't. Show which numbers you mean.
    - tsotha 11y ago
      Did you read the title of this post?
      - DanBC 11y ago
        How does the title of this post support your unpleasant suggestion that women who attempt suicide are not serious in their attempt (your use of scare quotes is fucking disgusting, BTW) and were doing it to seek attention or to punish people - it is this attention seeking / punishing behaviour that I'm trying to get you to support with any evidence.
        tsotha 11y ago
        You need to calm down. I made that statement based on personal experience and that I find laughable the idea that women are somehow too incompetent to kill themselves. What does that leave?