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European Parliament Says Snowden Should Be Welcomed in Europe
- jacquesm 11y agoTalk is cheap. Looking forward to a EU country that will step up to the plate and do something rather than just talk.
- Tomte 11y agoAre you aware that the European Parliament has nothing to do with individual member countries' governments?
- listic 11y agoDoes it have any authority, then?
- gambiting 11y agoBoth yes and no. It can issue a directive but individual EU countries could still elect to ignore it. Very few do, and it happens rarely, but they can ignore EU directives. It's as if states in the US could ignore federal law. The difference is that in US the federal government could actually send federal agents to arrest the governor and bring him for trial for breaking federal law, but in EU nothing would happen. The EU parliament might try to put sanctions on a country for not following a directive, but then again, other countries would need to agree to it. So if the issue is a hot one, not much can be done.
- germanier 11y agoThe European Parliament can't issue directive on its own (it needs to be introduced by the European Commission, and also approved for by repressentatives of the governments). If an directive has been issued, it can't be ignored by the member states. If they do, they can be forced to do follow it by a European court as they act against the European treaties they signed. The European parliament can't issue sanctions against anybody, because that's not in their power as defined in the EU treaties. What the EU parliament can do in this case (and what do actually did here) is issue a sternly worded letter. They can also try to bring the EU Commission or the member states to do something.
- lhopki01 11y agoThis is not quite true. The EU can issue fines. The fines are enforceable in each member's courts because of the treaties they signed up to as part of the EU. But you're right in this case the EU can't do anything about Snowden. It's really just a motion calling on EU national governments.
- germanier 11y agoFor the mentioned directives you are right, the way to force them on non-compliant member states is through fines (but those are enforced in the ECJ). However, it's well established that they have a direct effect on individuals even when member states refuse to comply (see for example Francovich v Italy). Also, in many cases the EU can issue regulations. Those are directly valid in all member states without them needing to do anything.
- stevetrewick 11y agoAIUI, either the Council (of ministers, i.e. the various appointed government representatives) or the Commission ( the technocratic bureaucracy which may have regulatory power delegated to them in some area of competence by the Council) can issue a regulation. The parliament, however, cannot. Power in 'the EU' is wielded largely by the CoM and the Commission, the parliament is just a side show. The EU is a fundamentally technocratic, not democratic, institution, This is by design. edit : fat fingers
- r0naa 11y agoYou seem to believe that the EU is one homogeneous, federal entity. It isn't, yet. Having the EU parliament vote a motion in favour of welcoming Snowden as a political refugee is great. As the article highlight it isn't binding to the EU commission or EU countries. But this could help document Snowden's in front of the ECHR. The European Court for Human Rights does have supranational power over EU states. This is a small step in the good direction, no need to be cynical.
- jacquesm 11y ago> You seem to believe that the EU is one homogeneous, federal entity. It isn't, yet. I did say 'EU country' didn't I? So why do you think I believe that the EU is one homogeneous federal entity? I'm pretty well versed in EU politics and I'm kind of surprised that you could read that into that line. > Having the EU parliament vote a motion in favour of welcoming Snowden as a political refugee is great. Yes, but it amounts to exactly nothing without any particular country taking actual action, the EU parliament has a long history of being ignored on issues like these in spite of well meaning words their ability to exert pressure on the nation states to actually act is in this particular case quite limited. But it's a nice gesture, I'm sure Edward Snowden will appreciate it. Hence the 'talk is cheap'.
- walterstucco 11y agoTalk is not cheap at all, my dear friend. We europeans are going against US requestas, even though We are technically allies. Do you think dieselgate has been discovered only now in US by accident?
- walterstucco 11y agoStill better than the US though
- forloop 11y agoIf I've learned anything from the "war" on drugs: don't trust politicians and governments. They'll lie relentlessly; even in the face of evidence.
- ucaetano 11y agoIf I've learned anything from the "war" on drugs: don't trust politicians and governments. They'll lie relentlessly; even in the face of evidence. If I've learned anything from being a human: don't trust humans. They'll lie relentlessly; even in the face of evidence.
- enraged_camel 11y agoNot so. Politicians lie far more often than the average person. It is easy to see why: a politician's job is to get re-elected, and the best way to do that is to please their campaign donors while simultaneously lying through their teeth to tell the voters what they want to hear.
- ucaetano 11y agoI'd love to see data on that. Maybe their lies are just more public. They're all humans, after all.
- forloop 11y agoI would love do see any data/evidence from you. > Maybe their lies are just more public. They're all humans, after all. ...your evidence is your previous, unproven argument.
- ucaetano 11y agoI don't have evidence either way, that why there's a "maybe" there. Politicians lie, humans lie, and politicians are humans. Unless there's some strong evidence, claiming that politicians lie more than the average human makes no sense.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- martiuk 11y agoFor anyone who doesn't know, as a non-binding resolution this means any/all of the member states can ignore it without consequence.
- spacecowboy_lon 11y agoThis smacks of cheap anti Americanism
- happyscrappy 11y agoThe US could do like France and just make it legal to spy on everyone, but it would be a hard bill to pass.
- toomuchtodo 11y agoAs an American, I can say without a doubt that the anti-Americanism we're generating throughout the world is not cheap to generate. Be a bully, get treated like a bully.
- spacecowboy_lon 11y agoWell not that America does herself any favors - however there is a strain of european anti americanism. But of course they love Le McDonald's and Le Coke Cola ;-) Back when I worked for the .coop registry we found this as some of the European coop considered the internet a Capatiist/CIA plot. There is also the older and dieing out British Tory's who blame you for the loss of empire.
- ionised 11y ago> Well not that America does herself any favors - however there is a strain of european anti americanism. There are plenty of reasons for this. > But of course they love Le McDonald's and Le Coke Cola. I personally don't buy either product because they both taste gross to me, but even if I did, how would that be relevant to US foreign policy or treatment of whistleblowers?
- spacecowboy_lon 11y agoI wasn't talking about post 9/11 issues but the post ww2 settlement and the rise of the USA as a super power. And I could think of EU country that treat whistle blowers badly or behave badly in pursuit of foreign policy
- mcv 11y agoIt's about time. Unfortunately it's not really up to the Europarliament. It's a nice signal, but it doesn't mean that Snowden will get asylum; that's still up to the individual countries.
- cryoshon 11y agoSnowden should be welcomed in the USA, too.
- bedane 11y agoReminder: the last time European authorities thought Snowden was in Europe, this happened: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident Illegal, Insulting for a friendly country and 100% rumour-based, it nevertheless happened and we all know what would have followed if Snowden was actually on that plane. So, yeah, talk is really cheap.
- espresso_enigma 11y agoI doubt Snowden would be foolish enough to set foot anywhere in Europe, no matter what they say. I'd be willing to bet the CIA has people all over Europe that would be smacking their lips, not to mention the US would probably have extradition leverage that it doesn't have with Russia.
- rumcajz 11y agoHere's the split of votes per country: http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-follow-up-to-the-european-parliament-resolution-of-12-march-2014-on-the-electronic-mass-surveillance-25.html#/##vote-tabs-list-4 http://www.votewatch.eu/en/term8-follow-up-to-the-european-p...
- tripzilch 11y agoAre you sure that's the right link? When I click on the "View text on the Parliament site" link ( http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=MOTION&reference=B8-2015-1092&language=EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=MOTION&re... ), I get to a page with a very wordy sort of proposal about a whole lot of privacy-related matters, but it doesn't mention Snowden anywhere? This seems to be the right text, though (which does mention Snowden): http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+TA+P8-TA-2015-0388+0+DOC+XML+V0//EN&language=EN http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//... Ugh, that site is such a maze.