8 ms·

Witch Burnings in Papua New Guinea

93 points by fahimulhaq 11y ago

imaginenore 11y ago
US evangelical christian pastors have been leading witch burning in Africa pretty recently. They burned children alive: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-denounce_n_324943.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-de...
- maxerickson 11y ago
  That article does not say that the pastors leading the witch burnings there are from the US, nor does it say they are not, it is not specified. They quote someone from a US church saying they are no longer in contact with a Nigerian church they had been associated with.
  - imaginenore 11y ago
    So your only beef is with the nationality of the pastors? Really? It was the US evangelical pastors that shaped their beliefs: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.th...
    - api 11y ago
      There seems to be history of failed ideologues from the west going to poorer nations to try to sell ideologies that didn't sell here: fanatical Marxism, fascism, and now dominionist ideology. It's like a form of toxic waste dumping.
    - maxerickson 11y ago
      Your post read an awful lot like a statement of fact that was meant to be backed up by the link following the colon. I just pointed out that the information was not present in the article. You wonder why I focus on the distraction, I wonder why you put it there.
- esaym 11y ago
  I highly doubt that. For one, "witch hunting" is not part of any mainline church doctrine nor is it in the new testament. Yes I know it is in the old testament, but the OT Jewish laws do not govern the church. A good example of this is of course found in the new testament. What happened when a man was caught in the act of adultery? He was simply kicked out of the congregation, and only through repentance and remorse would one be let back in. For the most part, the links you posted only mentioned pentecostal denominations. And as much as I disagree with pentecostalism, I really can't even tear into it here because that is not even what is at play here. This is Africa we are talking about. An entire continent that is filled with tribes and small villages that at least at one time, were ruled by witchdoctors. Got a plague among you? Sacrifice a few children they say. Got AIDS? Find a 10 year virgin and "purify" yourself with her. These things have been the norm over there for ages. The media simply loves to find the worst of the worst and brandish it all over. There are plenty of good missionaries and ministries over there: http://tinyurl.com/njaqtzc http://tinyurl.com/njaqtzc but they are of course ignored and not shared because they are not as "exciting" and sensationalized as the negativity.
  - takinola 11y ago
    "This is Africa we are talking about. An entire continent that is filled with tribes and small villages that at least at one time, were ruled by witchdoctors. " Woah, woah, woah, hold your horses there, fella. I grew up in Africa and whilst I am a member of a tribe, I did not grow up in a small village governed by the friendly local witchdoctor. And no, most Africans do not use witchdoctors as their HMOs either. The trope that Africa is what you see on the Discovery channel is something that I, and a lot of my African friends, find somewhat irritating. It would be like showing video of a couple cowboys in Montana and playing it over and over to a non-American audience as definitive proof of what life in America is like for the average American. Yes, the video will represent what life is like for a group of Americans so it is true(-ish) but not close to being representative for the average American and so definitely paints a misleading picture. As for the original issue of witch burning, I do agree with you that the idea of mainline churches in America promoting witch burning in Africa is ludicrous. Would it be possible to find one example of an American missionary doing this? Probably. But it would be a real stretch to say this would be acceptable to any church other than a very, very, very fringe group. Kind of like how the Westboro Baptist Church gets outsized media attention but no one seems to mention that the "church" consists pretty much entirely of just the family members of one kooky guy. One media pro tip I found that works. Whenever you see a story with the format <person/group I know very little about / don't really have positive feelings for> did/said <something outrageous, 6σ deviation from normal behavior>, dig a little below the headlines and quite often you will find (a) it didn't happen the way the headline purported it did or (b) there is some context or reasonable viewpoint that shows what happened is not quite as outrageous as it appears. For example, there is this NPR story about a woman suing her 12 year old nephew for $100k because he broke her wrist whilst jumping into her arms when greeting her as she arrived at his birthday party (http://www.npr.org/2015/10/14/448544919/woman-sues-nephew-for-127-000-over-her-broken-wrist http://www.npr.org/2015/10/14/448544919/woman-sues-nephew-fo...). Your first thought will likely be "holy cow, what kind of monster would do such a thing. Where's my pitchfork?" Then you read the follow-up from CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/us/aunt-nephew-lawsuit/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/us/aunt-nephew-lawsuit/) which explains that in Connecticut, where the incident took place, you can only sue individuals and so for her to get paid by the parent's homeowners' insurance, she had to name the nephew on the lawsuit and in fact, the boy and his family were supportive of her lawsuit. News media is broken. The news has always had an element of info-tainment but our nature as an audience is driving the media to focus more on the entertainment side of news and so we are being led down this path where stories cater more to our need to stroke our biases and encourage us to pat ourselves on the back for being good and better than "those" people
- mhuffman 11y ago
  Yeah they should just get back to eating witches, like before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korowai_people#Cannibalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korowai_people#Cannibalism
  - p1mrx 11y ago
    Burning people is lossy oppression; I expect better from PNG.
vezzy-fnord 11y ago
PNG has been the subject of a rather horrific ongoing civil war over the past some 45 years, but scarcely documented and seldom known in the West: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_conflict It's rather surreal.
- guillaume8375 11y ago
  I think the conflict concerns Idonesia, not PNG.
  - tim333 11y ago
    Yeah it's in West Papua rather than PNG.
NPMaxwell 11y ago
It probably takes longer to figure out how to respond to this article than to other articles linked to on Hacker News
- whyIndeed 11y ago
  This is true, even in situations where you don't care about downvotes.
borplk 11y ago
The scrollbar was very irritating
binarycrusader 11y ago
Thanks to missionaries ... 96 percent of people in Papua New Guinea consider themselves Christian. That's a bizarre bit of editorializing to put into what should be a balanced work of journalism. I imagine the writer was trying to imply that most of the population in Papua New Guinea won't participate in events like these because of a belief system they've acquired. However, when a writer words things like that, it makes me question their inherent bias.
- sbierwagen 11y ago
  I'm not quite sure what you're objecting to here. That missionaries operate in PNG?
  - binarycrusader 11y ago
    I'm objecting to the implication that we should be thankful that the people of Papua New Guinea have been "converted" to a different system of beliefs. The "conversion" of various indigenous peoples to essentially a western system of beliefs is what I find disagreeable. Proselytization events such as these have resulted in a significant loss to the preservation of various cultures (and languages) around the world and I feel have contributed to a loss of identity especially among indigenous or aboriginal communities. Forgive me if I seem overly sensitive to this, but some of my ancestors got to experience this "wondrous conversion" firsthand and it leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth.
    - placeybordeaux 11y ago
      Oh I interperted the use of "thankful" here as in relation to the cause, not in relation to being thankful.
      - sbierwagen 11y ago
        Your previous reading was correct.
    - sbierwagen 11y ago
fiatmoney 11y ago
These reactionary islanders should know best practice is to imprison your witches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse
cs702 11y ago
The craziest thing about this is that the perpetrators of these crimes do not seem to be "using their beliefs as an excuse to kill for other reasons." Rather, it appears that long-held beliefs in witchcraft are the reason why the perpetrators are killing. They sincerely believe they're in the right when they burn those women alive! Warning to readers: the article contains pictures of crowds in villages watching as women accused of witchcraft are tortured before they get burned to death. It's shocking, disgusting, and disturbing.
- escherplex 11y ago
  You've got a point. Juxtapose this with contemporary Eastern European corpse mutilation practices which are purported to serve as protection against recently deceased relatives morphing into a vampires and feeding on their kinfolk: see video (Vampire Legend) at: http://www.pbs.org/topics/history/world-history/ http://www.pbs.org/topics/history/world-history/ And note in this PBS documentary how the local villagers sanctioned the fugitive's behavior and motives. Curious also how the old 'deviant' burial evidence in Britain and elsewhere imply these same practices have been going on for millennia throughout Europe. This suggests, given suitable context (as in Salem, US not that long ago), such 'unenlightened, uneducated PNG primitives' conditioned behavior could manifest anywhere at any time. /s
- anotherevan 11y ago
  About 15 years ago, Monica had been a typical PNG wife, caring for her children and her many subsistence gardens, until her father died suddenly from a heart attack. As the eldest child, she was entitled to inherit his house, but her younger brother wanted it badly and accused her of killing their father with witchcraft. Jelasy like his is very often a motivating factor in Highlands witchcraft accusations. Certainly some are using their beliefs as an excuse to kill for other reasons, manipulating the fear of unwitting participants. As with any and every belief system though-out history, it will be manipulated by some to their own ends. I agree that it is probable that the majority of perpetrators are behaving out of long-held beliefs though. Beliefs that need to be dismantled.
simonsquiff 11y ago
PNG is an extraordinary place. My father spent a year in the highlands in 1960, in a missionary outpost in a part of the highlands tha only had contact with the outside world about 5 years earlier. He fell in love with the place and the people; I then visited the same a village a couple of years ago, and had what will probably be the trip of a lifetime, with incredible friendly, welcoming and warm people. The cities however are very edgy, dangerous and of no charm whatsoever. This article of course is talking about a very ugly and horrific side of the culture, albeit one that flares up once in a while rather than being ever present. As it discusses, in the highlands the people didn't even know the rest of the world existed until the 20th century. They hardly ever went to the next village. It was extraordinarily isolated. It's also an incredible story, I strongly recommend the (out of print) book First Contact that describes how both the explorers and locals reacted to this incredible moment - all expertly documented, and recent enough that the authors could interview people who remembered it first hand. The true highlands are not the towns this article discusses. Mount Hagan is a large bustling town with a main airport. It no doubt has much more occurrences of this ugliness, with communities thrown together more and the chaos of large town living. The villages in the highlands, where I visited, don't have this kind of vibe, though I'm sure sometimes events like this could occur. They have a sense of community that we in the west have lost. For instance, all the children play together in one big bundling group of fun. The 8 year olds, 5 year olds and 3 year olds (with 1 year olds on their hip) all being kids, without parents (let alone a helicopter one) - though any adult might interact if required. When this type of community setting goes wrong you get the 'immune system' response this article describes, but this doesn't paint any of the daily positives when things are normal. Like the author I'm optimistic that education will make the bad parts a think of the past. But don't think PNG is a country of savages - the highlands that I and my father knew, whilst transitioning in an exceptionally unique way are full of humanity as wonderful as anywhere in this world.
- anotherevan 11y ago
  I have been to PNG three times. Early '80s when I was three for ten months (had my fourth birthday there), again when I was thirteen for three months, and lastly about eight years ago for a few weeks. I agree with your observations, which feel quite astute to me. Some of the cities are awful, particularly Moresby. (I stayed in the Mapang guest house that was mentioned when we got stranded in Moresby due to a missed connecting flight. Travel plans always involved trying to get in and out of Moresby in the same day and not leaving the airport if at all possible.) I spent most of my time in Ukarumpa but have visited Goroka as well as Lae and Madang. Never been near Mount Hagan, which has a long history of violence. One thing I noticed changing over the times I visited was the increased amount of security. The razor-wire fences, not just in Morseby. Armed security guards and such. With around 860 distinct languages, isolation and travel difficulty imposed by incredibly rugged terrain, it is a country with remarkably unique challenges.
wtbob 11y ago
> The Highlanders fancied the music not because it was beautiful. They liked it, they explained, because the trumpets sounded exactly like the brassy screams of captive women selected for feasting. And then later: > Our social harmony was going along until the white man arrived … You intrude, and suddenly the things that used to go smoothly no longer do. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a social harmony in which people love the cries of those they are about to eat is a social harmony which needs disruption, destruction and replacement with something better. What Papua New Guinea needs is more, not less colonialism; it needs a governor like General Sir Charles Napier, who put down the practice of suttee in Sindh, and who upon being entreated by the native priests that it was a sacred rite which should be respected, responded, 'Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation also has a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs!' (from Sir W.F. Napier's 'History of General Sir Charles Napiers Administration of Scinde'). It's a tragedy that civilised powers did not stay there longer and correct more of PNG's broken society; it would be a crime (of ethics, if not of law) if the Western energy companies aren't doing something to fix that society, rather than live on its edges.
- MichaelGG 11y ago
  Yep. There's a great book called Sick Societies that does a great job dismantling the myth of the noble savage. PNG is one place discussed. IIRC, it also contains some cultures that highly value eating people you betray. The greater the betrayal (as in, you've befriended someone and act in their interests, then kill them), the higher the reward (respect or whatever). Simply by agreeing on some basic human rights, or just being opposed to murder, is enough to show these societies are bad. Interference isn't intrinsically bad, and there's nothing unethical about putting an end to such atrocities. (It might be easy to fall into the trap of committing your own ethical violations while ending atrocities, but it's not required.) The book does a good job of providing solid evidence of the harm these cultures inflict on people.
  - ivoryst 11y ago
contingencies 11y ago
Similarly out there beliefs Bali... http://www.smh.com.au/world/communist-victims-exhumed-in-bali-to-stop-their-spirits-disturbing-villagers-20151031-gknm72.html http://www.smh.com.au/world/communist-victims-exhumed-in-bal...

93 points by fahimulhaq 11y ago

US evangelical christian pastors have been leading witch burning in Africa pretty recently. They burned children alive: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-denounce_n_324943.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-de...

maxerickson 11y ago
That article does not say that the pastors leading the witch burnings there are from the US, nor does it say they are not, it is not specified. They quote someone from a US church saying they are no longer in contact with a Nigerian church they had been associated with.
- imaginenore 11y ago
  So your only beef is with the nationality of the pastors? Really? It was the US evangelical pastors that shaped their beliefs: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.th...
  - api 11y ago
    There seems to be history of failed ideologues from the west going to poorer nations to try to sell ideologies that didn't sell here: fanatical Marxism, fascism, and now dominionist ideology. It's like a form of toxic waste dumping.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    Your post read an awful lot like a statement of fact that was meant to be backed up by the link following the colon. I just pointed out that the information was not present in the article. You wonder why I focus on the distraction, I wonder why you put it there.
esaym 11y ago
I highly doubt that. For one, "witch hunting" is not part of any mainline church doctrine nor is it in the new testament. Yes I know it is in the old testament, but the OT Jewish laws do not govern the church. A good example of this is of course found in the new testament. What happened when a man was caught in the act of adultery? He was simply kicked out of the congregation, and only through repentance and remorse would one be let back in. For the most part, the links you posted only mentioned pentecostal denominations. And as much as I disagree with pentecostalism, I really can't even tear into it here because that is not even what is at play here. This is Africa we are talking about. An entire continent that is filled with tribes and small villages that at least at one time, were ruled by witchdoctors. Got a plague among you? Sacrifice a few children they say. Got AIDS? Find a 10 year virgin and "purify" yourself with her. These things have been the norm over there for ages. The media simply loves to find the worst of the worst and brandish it all over. There are plenty of good missionaries and ministries over there: http://tinyurl.com/njaqtzc http://tinyurl.com/njaqtzc but they are of course ignored and not shared because they are not as "exciting" and sensationalized as the negativity.
- takinola 11y ago
  "This is Africa we are talking about. An entire continent that is filled with tribes and small villages that at least at one time, were ruled by witchdoctors. " Woah, woah, woah, hold your horses there, fella. I grew up in Africa and whilst I am a member of a tribe, I did not grow up in a small village governed by the friendly local witchdoctor. And no, most Africans do not use witchdoctors as their HMOs either. The trope that Africa is what you see on the Discovery channel is something that I, and a lot of my African friends, find somewhat irritating. It would be like showing video of a couple cowboys in Montana and playing it over and over to a non-American audience as definitive proof of what life in America is like for the average American. Yes, the video will represent what life is like for a group of Americans so it is true(-ish) but not close to being representative for the average American and so definitely paints a misleading picture. As for the original issue of witch burning, I do agree with you that the idea of mainline churches in America promoting witch burning in Africa is ludicrous. Would it be possible to find one example of an American missionary doing this? Probably. But it would be a real stretch to say this would be acceptable to any church other than a very, very, very fringe group. Kind of like how the Westboro Baptist Church gets outsized media attention but no one seems to mention that the "church" consists pretty much entirely of just the family members of one kooky guy. One media pro tip I found that works. Whenever you see a story with the format <person/group I know very little about / don't really have positive feelings for> did/said <something outrageous, 6σ deviation from normal behavior>, dig a little below the headlines and quite often you will find (a) it didn't happen the way the headline purported it did or (b) there is some context or reasonable viewpoint that shows what happened is not quite as outrageous as it appears. For example, there is this NPR story about a woman suing her 12 year old nephew for $100k because he broke her wrist whilst jumping into her arms when greeting her as she arrived at his birthday party (http://www.npr.org/2015/10/14/448544919/woman-sues-nephew-for-127-000-over-her-broken-wrist http://www.npr.org/2015/10/14/448544919/woman-sues-nephew-fo...). Your first thought will likely be "holy cow, what kind of monster would do such a thing. Where's my pitchfork?" Then you read the follow-up from CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/us/aunt-nephew-lawsuit/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/us/aunt-nephew-lawsuit/) which explains that in Connecticut, where the incident took place, you can only sue individuals and so for her to get paid by the parent's homeowners' insurance, she had to name the nephew on the lawsuit and in fact, the boy and his family were supportive of her lawsuit. News media is broken. The news has always had an element of info-tainment but our nature as an audience is driving the media to focus more on the entertainment side of news and so we are being led down this path where stories cater more to our need to stroke our biases and encourage us to pat ourselves on the back for being good and better than "those" people
mhuffman 11y ago
Yeah they should just get back to eating witches, like before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korowai_people#Cannibalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korowai_people#Cannibalism
- p1mrx 11y ago
  Burning people is lossy oppression; I expect better from PNG.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago

PNG has been the subject of a rather horrific ongoing civil war over the past some 45 years, but scarcely documented and seldom known in the West: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papua_conflict It's rather surreal.

guillaume8375 11y ago
I think the conflict concerns Idonesia, not PNG.
- tim333 11y ago
  Yeah it's in West Papua rather than PNG.

NPMaxwell 11y ago

It probably takes longer to figure out how to respond to this article than to other articles linked to on Hacker News

whyIndeed 11y ago
This is true, even in situations where you don't care about downvotes.

borplk 11y ago

The scrollbar was very irritating

binarycrusader 11y ago

Thanks to missionaries ... 96 percent of people in Papua New Guinea consider themselves Christian. That's a bizarre bit of editorializing to put into what should be a balanced work of journalism. I imagine the writer was trying to imply that most of the population in Papua New Guinea won't participate in events like these because of a belief system they've acquired. However, when a writer words things like that, it makes me question their inherent bias.

sbierwagen 11y ago
I'm not quite sure what you're objecting to here. That missionaries operate in PNG?
- binarycrusader 11y ago
  I'm objecting to the implication that we should be thankful that the people of Papua New Guinea have been "converted" to a different system of beliefs. The "conversion" of various indigenous peoples to essentially a western system of beliefs is what I find disagreeable. Proselytization events such as these have resulted in a significant loss to the preservation of various cultures (and languages) around the world and I feel have contributed to a loss of identity especially among indigenous or aboriginal communities. Forgive me if I seem overly sensitive to this, but some of my ancestors got to experience this "wondrous conversion" firsthand and it leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth.
  - placeybordeaux 11y ago
    Oh I interperted the use of "thankful" here as in relation to the cause, not in relation to being thankful.
    - sbierwagen 11y ago
      Your previous reading was correct.
  - sbierwagen 11y ago

fiatmoney 11y ago

These reactionary islanders should know best practice is to imprison your witches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse

cs702 11y ago

The craziest thing about this is that the perpetrators of these crimes do not seem to be "using their beliefs as an excuse to kill for other reasons." Rather, it appears that long-held beliefs in witchcraft are the reason why the perpetrators are killing. They sincerely believe they're in the right when they burn those women alive! Warning to readers: the article contains pictures of crowds in villages watching as women accused of witchcraft are tortured before they get burned to death. It's shocking, disgusting, and disturbing.

escherplex 11y ago
You've got a point. Juxtapose this with contemporary Eastern European corpse mutilation practices which are purported to serve as protection against recently deceased relatives morphing into a vampires and feeding on their kinfolk: see video (Vampire Legend) at: http://www.pbs.org/topics/history/world-history/ http://www.pbs.org/topics/history/world-history/ And note in this PBS documentary how the local villagers sanctioned the fugitive's behavior and motives. Curious also how the old 'deviant' burial evidence in Britain and elsewhere imply these same practices have been going on for millennia throughout Europe. This suggests, given suitable context (as in Salem, US not that long ago), such 'unenlightened, uneducated PNG primitives' conditioned behavior could manifest anywhere at any time. /s
anotherevan 11y ago
About 15 years ago, Monica had been a typical PNG wife, caring for her children and her many subsistence gardens, until her father died suddenly from a heart attack. As the eldest child, she was entitled to inherit his house, but her younger brother wanted it badly and accused her of killing their father with witchcraft. Jelasy like his is very often a motivating factor in Highlands witchcraft accusations. Certainly some are using their beliefs as an excuse to kill for other reasons, manipulating the fear of unwitting participants. As with any and every belief system though-out history, it will be manipulated by some to their own ends. I agree that it is probable that the majority of perpetrators are behaving out of long-held beliefs though. Beliefs that need to be dismantled.

simonsquiff 11y ago

PNG is an extraordinary place. My father spent a year in the highlands in 1960, in a missionary outpost in a part of the highlands tha only had contact with the outside world about 5 years earlier. He fell in love with the place and the people; I then visited the same a village a couple of years ago, and had what will probably be the trip of a lifetime, with incredible friendly, welcoming and warm people. The cities however are very edgy, dangerous and of no charm whatsoever. This article of course is talking about a very ugly and horrific side of the culture, albeit one that flares up once in a while rather than being ever present. As it discusses, in the highlands the people didn't even know the rest of the world existed until the 20th century. They hardly ever went to the next village. It was extraordinarily isolated. It's also an incredible story, I strongly recommend the (out of print) book First Contact that describes how both the explorers and locals reacted to this incredible moment - all expertly documented, and recent enough that the authors could interview people who remembered it first hand. The true highlands are not the towns this article discusses. Mount Hagan is a large bustling town with a main airport. It no doubt has much more occurrences of this ugliness, with communities thrown together more and the chaos of large town living. The villages in the highlands, where I visited, don't have this kind of vibe, though I'm sure sometimes events like this could occur. They have a sense of community that we in the west have lost. For instance, all the children play together in one big bundling group of fun. The 8 year olds, 5 year olds and 3 year olds (with 1 year olds on their hip) all being kids, without parents (let alone a helicopter one) - though any adult might interact if required. When this type of community setting goes wrong you get the 'immune system' response this article describes, but this doesn't paint any of the daily positives when things are normal. Like the author I'm optimistic that education will make the bad parts a think of the past. But don't think PNG is a country of savages - the highlands that I and my father knew, whilst transitioning in an exceptionally unique way are full of humanity as wonderful as anywhere in this world.

anotherevan 11y ago
I have been to PNG three times. Early '80s when I was three for ten months (had my fourth birthday there), again when I was thirteen for three months, and lastly about eight years ago for a few weeks. I agree with your observations, which feel quite astute to me. Some of the cities are awful, particularly Moresby. (I stayed in the Mapang guest house that was mentioned when we got stranded in Moresby due to a missed connecting flight. Travel plans always involved trying to get in and out of Moresby in the same day and not leaving the airport if at all possible.) I spent most of my time in Ukarumpa but have visited Goroka as well as Lae and Madang. Never been near Mount Hagan, which has a long history of violence. One thing I noticed changing over the times I visited was the increased amount of security. The razor-wire fences, not just in Morseby. Armed security guards and such. With around 860 distinct languages, isolation and travel difficulty imposed by incredibly rugged terrain, it is a country with remarkably unique challenges.

wtbob 11y ago

> The Highlanders fancied the music not because it was beautiful. They liked it, they explained, because the trumpets sounded exactly like the brassy screams of captive women selected for feasting. And then later: > Our social harmony was going along until the white man arrived … You intrude, and suddenly the things that used to go smoothly no longer do. I'll go out on a limb and suggest that a social harmony in which people love the cries of those they are about to eat is a social harmony which needs disruption, destruction and replacement with something better. What Papua New Guinea needs is more, not less colonialism; it needs a governor like General Sir Charles Napier, who put down the practice of suttee in Sindh, and who upon being entreated by the native priests that it was a sacred rite which should be respected, responded, 'Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation also has a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs!' (from Sir W.F. Napier's 'History of General Sir Charles Napiers Administration of Scinde'). It's a tragedy that civilised powers did not stay there longer and correct more of PNG's broken society; it would be a crime (of ethics, if not of law) if the Western energy companies aren't doing something to fix that society, rather than live on its edges.

MichaelGG 11y ago
Yep. There's a great book called Sick Societies that does a great job dismantling the myth of the noble savage. PNG is one place discussed. IIRC, it also contains some cultures that highly value eating people you betray. The greater the betrayal (as in, you've befriended someone and act in their interests, then kill them), the higher the reward (respect or whatever). Simply by agreeing on some basic human rights, or just being opposed to murder, is enough to show these societies are bad. Interference isn't intrinsically bad, and there's nothing unethical about putting an end to such atrocities. (It might be easy to fall into the trap of committing your own ethical violations while ending atrocities, but it's not required.) The book does a good job of providing solid evidence of the harm these cultures inflict on people.
- ivoryst 11y ago

contingencies 11y ago

Similarly out there beliefs Bali... http://www.smh.com.au/world/communist-victims-exhumed-in-bali-to-stop-their-spirits-disturbing-villagers-20151031-gknm72.html http://www.smh.com.au/world/communist-victims-exhumed-in-bal...