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> Five months into the experiment, after some initial reservations, I gave up toilet paper. Now I do things the way hundreds of millions (including my extended

> Five months into the experiment, after some initial reservations, I gave up toilet paper. Now I do things the way hundreds of millions (including my extended family) in India do — with water and my left hand. That's pretty gross. What's the delta for the energy cost of doing that, its use of extra water and extra heat and extra soap for the water to clean his hand, with the energy cost of a few squares of toilet paper and less water and heat and soap?

Karunamon 11y ago
That one struck me as a "wait, what!?" as well, especially considering a few paragraphs down, there's: We don’t have to go back in time to heed environmental boundaries. ..pretty sure not using sanitary toilet paper in favor of touching feces is "going back in time", and I'd place using more water as a greater environmental issue than using less of a product that can be made from recycled things anyways.
- Scoundreller 11y ago
  > using more water as a greater environmental issue He's in Michigan, they're not running out anytime soon. The water gets recycled too, in minutes/hours instead of decades for trees. It's going back to (probably) the same lake it came from, not letting it evaporate on a farmer's field.
NhanH 11y ago
You have to wash your hand in both cases. And from experience, I do not think using toilet paper means that I used less water and soap when washing my hand. Also, if you think it's gross then this is what you're looking for: http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Bidet-D1-Adjustable-Certification/dp/B00FPZUJRO/ http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Bidet-D1-Adjustable-Certification/... .
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
natdempk 11y ago
How could this possibly be practical or sanitary? Did he do this in public restrooms? Why didn't he consider a bidet?
- Scoundreller 11y ago
  Perhaps he does use a bidet? The article is unclear.
colordrops 11y ago
And how does that work in public restrooms where there is no sink next to the toilet?
- johansch 11y ago
  You basically get India.
blocktuw 11y ago
Hopefully you wash your hands after using the bathroom, regardless of if you use your hand to physically remove matter from your body. But a quick google gave me 37 gallons, 1.3 kWh, 1.5 lbs of wood per roll of toilet paper. That is a hefty amount of consumption that is flushed down the toilet. http://www.treehugger.com/bathroom-design/stop-using-toilet-paper-get-the-blue-bidet.html http://www.treehugger.com/bathroom-design/stop-using-toilet-...
silveira 11y ago
One option (for home) would be one of those japanese smart toilet seats.
InclinedPlane 11y ago
Missed an opportunity to buy a bidet.
benten10 11y ago
My first reaction was extreme anger at your first statement. Now that I have cooled down a bit, Would you ever consider rubbing yourself with paper a valid realistic alternative to showering? Then WHY are you more comfortable with merely rubbing the shit off you, at the dirtiest part of your body (than cleaning it using water, and washing it, like your wash the rest of your body). Those that use hands at least have clean butts and clean hands (most do wash hands now!) -- you, on the other hand can't be completely confident about one. : )
- johansch 11y ago
  What are you going on about? You do understand that most people use toilet paper to wipe themselves and also wash their hands afterwards?
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    But they don't wash their butt. An analogy I always like was whether you'd be happy enough wiping your hand with a paper towel if you accidentally tripped and put your hand in dog feces.
- keenerd 11y ago
  I am not suggesting we all use deutsche toilettenbecken or anything, but if your diet is good then there is nothing to clean up either.
- qyv 11y ago
  I think the reasoning goes something like this: The anus should be assumed to be an unclean portion of the body, with the exception of directly after washing it with soap and water, and should always be treated under that assumption. By using paper in between the hand and anus when wiping you are attempting to avoid cross contamination with the hands, which is a part of the body that is understood to be much cleaner. Simply avoiding contact between the two areas is the most direct route to maintain this distinction. Washing your hands with soap and water after wiping serves as a further action to maintain the usefulness of the hands. You will notice that I highlighted soap above, I do this because I believe it is the key factor often missed in discussions like this. You can argue that hand + water can make your anus appear cleaner than hand + paper, but without soap it is at best marginally more sanitary for your anus, and significantly less sanitary for your hand. There is a reason we clean our bodies with soap and water, not just water.
johansch 11y ago
Yeah, let's look to India for inspiration on how to handle sanitary issues...
- mahouse 11y ago
  They are trying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peUxE_BKcU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peUxE_BKcU
jlg23 11y ago
> That's pretty gross. No, actually it's pretty sanitary. After having lived in Morocco for more than a year, using paper feels dirty. And it is - your behind is much cleaner when treated with water.
- johansch 11y ago
  How about your hands though?
  - jlg23 11y ago
    I wash them. In cultures where one cleans his behind with hands, one usually finds a tap at knee level just next to the toilet....
- johansch 11y ago
  How about your hands though?
- atonparker 11y ago
  How does it work? I get that a bidet is going to be cleaner than paper, but it seems like the continuous stream is an important factor. I can't really visualize how using a wet hand is going to do anything but make a mess. Sure, you wash your hand afterwards...but you just wiped a bunch of unsanitary water around a place that doesn't get a lot of fresh air.
  - SixSigma 11y ago
    I use one of these. I never touch my ass with my hand while doing it. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ABS-Toilet-Handheld-Bidet-Spray-Shattaf-Brass-Hot-Cold-Water-Valve-Mixer-with-Holder-Hose-sprayer/32361198770.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ABS-Toilet-Handheld-Bidet-Spr...
    - cpncrunch 11y ago
      How do you properly clean yourself without using soap?

Karunamon 11y ago

That one struck me as a "wait, what!?" as well, especially considering a few paragraphs down, there's: We don’t have to go back in time to heed environmental boundaries. ..pretty sure not using sanitary toilet paper in favor of touching feces is "going back in time", and I'd place using more water as a greater environmental issue than using less of a product that can be made from recycled things anyways.

Scoundreller 11y ago
> using more water as a greater environmental issue He's in Michigan, they're not running out anytime soon. The water gets recycled too, in minutes/hours instead of decades for trees. It's going back to (probably) the same lake it came from, not letting it evaporate on a farmer's field.

NhanH 11y ago

You have to wash your hand in both cases. And from experience, I do not think using toilet paper means that I used less water and soap when washing my hand. Also, if you think it's gross then this is what you're looking for: http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Bidet-D1-Adjustable-Certification/dp/B00FPZUJRO/ http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Bidet-D1-Adjustable-Certification/... .

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

natdempk 11y ago

How could this possibly be practical or sanitary? Did he do this in public restrooms? Why didn't he consider a bidet?

Scoundreller 11y ago
Perhaps he does use a bidet? The article is unclear.

colordrops 11y ago

And how does that work in public restrooms where there is no sink next to the toilet?

johansch 11y ago
You basically get India.

blocktuw 11y ago

Hopefully you wash your hands after using the bathroom, regardless of if you use your hand to physically remove matter from your body. But a quick google gave me 37 gallons, 1.3 kWh, 1.5 lbs of wood per roll of toilet paper. That is a hefty amount of consumption that is flushed down the toilet. http://www.treehugger.com/bathroom-design/stop-using-toilet-paper-get-the-blue-bidet.html http://www.treehugger.com/bathroom-design/stop-using-toilet-...

silveira 11y ago

One option (for home) would be one of those japanese smart toilet seats.

InclinedPlane 11y ago

Missed an opportunity to buy a bidet.

benten10 11y ago

My first reaction was extreme anger at your first statement. Now that I have cooled down a bit, Would you ever consider rubbing yourself with paper a valid realistic alternative to showering? Then WHY are you more comfortable with merely rubbing the shit off you, at the dirtiest part of your body (than cleaning it using water, and washing it, like your wash the rest of your body). Those that use hands at least have clean butts and clean hands (most do wash hands now!) -- you, on the other hand can't be completely confident about one. : )

johansch 11y ago
What are you going on about? You do understand that most people use toilet paper to wipe themselves and also wash their hands afterwards?
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  But they don't wash their butt. An analogy I always like was whether you'd be happy enough wiping your hand with a paper towel if you accidentally tripped and put your hand in dog feces.
keenerd 11y ago
I am not suggesting we all use deutsche toilettenbecken or anything, but if your diet is good then there is nothing to clean up either.
qyv 11y ago
I think the reasoning goes something like this: The anus should be assumed to be an unclean portion of the body, with the exception of directly after washing it with soap and water, and should always be treated under that assumption. By using paper in between the hand and anus when wiping you are attempting to avoid cross contamination with the hands, which is a part of the body that is understood to be much cleaner. Simply avoiding contact between the two areas is the most direct route to maintain this distinction. Washing your hands with soap and water after wiping serves as a further action to maintain the usefulness of the hands. You will notice that I highlighted soap above, I do this because I believe it is the key factor often missed in discussions like this. You can argue that hand + water can make your anus appear cleaner than hand + paper, but without soap it is at best marginally more sanitary for your anus, and significantly less sanitary for your hand. There is a reason we clean our bodies with soap and water, not just water.

johansch 11y ago

Yeah, let's look to India for inspiration on how to handle sanitary issues...

mahouse 11y ago
They are trying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peUxE_BKcU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peUxE_BKcU

jlg23 11y ago

> That's pretty gross. No, actually it's pretty sanitary. After having lived in Morocco for more than a year, using paper feels dirty. And it is - your behind is much cleaner when treated with water.

johansch 11y ago
How about your hands though?
- jlg23 11y ago
  I wash them. In cultures where one cleans his behind with hands, one usually finds a tap at knee level just next to the toilet....
johansch 11y ago
How about your hands though?
atonparker 11y ago
How does it work? I get that a bidet is going to be cleaner than paper, but it seems like the continuous stream is an important factor. I can't really visualize how using a wet hand is going to do anything but make a mess. Sure, you wash your hand afterwards...but you just wiped a bunch of unsanitary water around a place that doesn't get a lot of fresh air.
- SixSigma 11y ago
  I use one of these. I never touch my ass with my hand while doing it. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ABS-Toilet-Handheld-Bidet-Spray-Shattaf-Brass-Hot-Cold-Water-Valve-Mixer-with-Holder-Hose-sprayer/32361198770.html http://www.aliexpress.com/item/ABS-Toilet-Handheld-Bidet-Spr...
  - cpncrunch 11y ago
    How do you properly clean yourself without using soap?