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Surfer here, this isn't really "disrupting" the surfboard industry. It's actually helping it because it lowers the barrier of entry and in turn introduces the s

Surfer here, this isn't really "disrupting" the surfboard industry. It's actually helping it because it lowers the barrier of entry and in turn introduces the sport to more people. There is still a very big market for performance surfboards in the ~$500 range.

forgetsusername 11y ago
>There is still a very big market for performance surfboards in the ~$500 range. Data? From the article, the number of surfers is growing at 1.7% annually, yet this company now sells 5 times more boards than anyone else. The majority of those sales were taken from other companies. If this isn't a disruption story than I don't know what is.
- _-__--- 11y ago
  your statements don't conflict, it's just an interpretation of the term "very big." Lots of people are buying the softtops, but those people might not be the people still investing in high-end hardtops (if that's the term). If sales of one item are increasing without a concurrent, statistically significant and apparently causal decrease in the sales of supposedly competing items, then it's not really disrupting a current market. It's just making it a lot bigger and getting most of the new volume. You could say that the market is almost tangential to the existing surf shop market.
  - forgetsusername 11y ago
    >but those people might not be the people still investing in high-end hardtops (if that's the term). Without knowing the underlying numbers, sure. It's possible. But the bigger point is that these small surf shops that sell both mid-priced soft-top and expensive hard-top boards are no longer selling the soft-tops, because an equivalent board can be had for $99, exclusively from Costco. That has to put pressure on the industry, and the supply of higher end boards.
- mrharrison 11y ago
  I would imagine its the type of board that sits in people's garage and gets used once a year. Once you really get into surfing you then upgrade. People who can really surf wouldn't use something like this. Sorry no data, but this what I see everytime I go out to a break. Beginners on these foam tops, intermediate and advanced on a $600 firewire, CI or vintage custom.
  - forgetsusername 11y ago
    >People who can really surf wouldn't use something like this. I agree. And let me say, I know nothing about surfing, and am basing my discussion on this one article. I think it's inevitable that the lower barrier to entry will allow the sport to grow, and be good for the "high-end" in the long-run. That's good. But in the meantime, this sort of breakthrough puts pressure on the existing system. I have to assume that shops used to sell more $300 boards than $1000 boards. Now they might be selling zero $300 boards, which have been replaced by the Costco special. So, small shops close. Low-volume producers go out of business. That's exactly what technological disruption is.
    - ryanackley 11y ago
      Again, I have no data, but I imagine that new surfboards are a very low margin business already because the smaller shops seem to stay far away from it. I say this because my local mom and pop surfshop on the beach doesn't even offer in-stock brand-new surfboards. You can however custom order from a local shaper through them. They focus heavily on surf apparel and used surfboards.
- ryanackley 11y ago
  Some of it is anecdotal. I surf frequently and I am in a relatively large market (Florida). Here is a real data point, the best-selling waveform 8' board is considered a "long" board. Easy to catch waves and ride them into shore but hard to turn and do tricks on. Most surfing literature and culture focuses on riding "short" boards (5'-7'). This is the type of surfing done on the professional circuit and shown in lots of magazines videos etc.
- pbrb 11y ago
  anecdotal, but here's my viewpoint as a surfer. yes, wavestorms sell like crazy, and are the #1 board i recommend to beginners. even ordering one at $180 w/ shipping can be cheaper than buying another decent used beginner board. so yeah, in that segment of the market, wavestorm is killing it. once you're beyond the beginner stage, outside of small wave or 'fun' sessions, a wavestorm is the last thing you're going to want to surf. a 'hard' surfboard (fiberglass w/ epoxy or poly resin) is pretty much mandatory. the lowest cost 'hard' surfboards are 'pop-outs', made in overseas factories (think ~$300 for a shortboard). these are generally frowned upon by surfers. what surfers really want, and usually buy multiples of, are hand shaped 'hard' boards from local shapers or a couple bigger name brands that still mass produce surfboards, but at a higher price and quality point than the overseas pop-outs ($400-$1000+ depending on size, shaper, color, etc). wave storm is killing it, and definitely disrupted the soft top beginner market. selling through costco with their return policy was probably a very large part of their success too. though, there definitely still is a very large market for performance surfboards in the ~$500 and up range.
  - petra 11y ago
    What's wrong with the overseas made boards?
    - mr_luc 11y ago
      Surfer here, spent 7 years in remote coastal south america surfing fairly regularly. It's not that they're made overseas -- it's that the basic method of manufacture he mentioned, "pop-out", in the industry implies using a plastic shell and then pumping foam into it, and a few other similar methods of manufacture. For shortboards, it's pretty terrible. The boards are very heavy for a surfboard, with poor rigidity and flex, and in fact they don't even attempt to target the "real shortboard" market, where extreme light weight, stiffness and a very delicately balanced flex work together to form something that lets you nimbly glide along a decent-sized wave on a board slightly shorter than you are. Basically, the best form of manufacture for surfboards is a core of either high-quality rigid foam (not the heavy, flexible foam used in wavestorm/some pop-outs) or air, covered in substances like fiberglass and/or carbon-fiber fabric and minimal amounts of epoxies (sometimes using the same vacuum techniques as other carbon-fiber manufacturing to minimize weight). I said 'foam or air' because for a while people have been predicting that we'd move to hollow carbon-fiber boards, and there are/have been some of those boards, but they have their drawbacks and are often expensive. Can performance surfboards be disrupted? It's already happened, to a certain extent. Channel Islands and other surfboard brands use automated milling of the foam blanks, and other automated processes as well. Too, any overseas contenders have to worry about shipping. Surfboards are huge -- you could fit 20 boxed iphones in the footprint of a single boxed shortboard. At the price points mentioned ($300-$500), overseas shipping would probably eat into your margin. Shipping is even an issue for domestic producers; often shipping a board halfway across the country can cost $50-$100. Which is a nice bit of extra margin for a local shaper and his customers. When will good surfboards get cheap? Probably when great carbon-fiber bikes get cheap, ie, when carbon-fiber manufacture is so well mastered by man that designs in any shape can be pumped out like Lego.
- snowwrestler 11y ago
  Not everyone who buys gear uses it. The cheaper the gear, the more that becomes true. I'm not a surfer but I've been a whitewater kayaker for decades. Many people who buy a new whitewater kayak + gear do not go on to become life-long paddlers. And we're talking about $1,500 worth of gear, easy.
- rcurry 11y ago
  This isn't a disruption story at all - these boards are, basically, cheap bath toys that parents pick up for their kids on Saturday morning before they head to the beach. I think they are great for beginners who don't want to spend money before trying to learn how to surf, but the reality is that most people buy a "real" board almost as soon as they learn to stand up. Also, these things are flimsy - even if you wanted to keep using it after you learn to stand up, the odds of it snapping in half within a few weeks of heavy use are pretty good. I'm not saying they're bad - they are great for beginners, but the market for custom boards isn't really going to get hurt all that much by these.
  - leroy_masochist 11y ago
    > these boards are, basically, cheap bath toys that parents pick up for their kids on Saturday morning before they head to the beach. I think they are great for beginners who don't want to spend money before trying to learn how to surf, but the reality is that most people buy a "real" board almost as soon as they learn to stand up. Are you talking about sponge boards in general, or Wavestorm boards specifically? Not like anyone's going to win the Eddie on a Wavestorm, but they're WAY better than previous sponge boards. > the market for custom boards isn't really going to get hurt all that much by these Agree 100%
yitchelle 11y ago
I am not a surfer but growing up in Australia, I get bombarded with adverts from RipCurl, QuickSilver and Billabong etc at a young age. Are the high prices due to the marketing hype that is generated by these companies? Definitely see this marketing hype from these companies' line of clothing.
- bmelton 11y ago
  A large part of it is because that's what they feel their products are worth / that is what the market will bear, but yes, marketing is indeed a huge cost component of any product that does marketing. The higher-level the marketing, the more expensive a component. Put into perspective, Have you ever been to a grocery store and seen store-brand cereal at a fraction of the cost? They're often (but not always) just as good as their name-brand counterparts, but the cost discrepancy, more than anything, is the marketing budget.
matwood 11y ago
I agree with you. My biggest hurdle to surfing growing up was affording a board. I was a pretty serious surfer up until a few years ago (I know longer live in a place with waves worth surfing). The second part of the expense is that surfboards are very fragile. Minor bumps crack the fiber glass and let water in which in turns destroys the board. I've also broken boards on big waves when coming out of tricks.
ErikRogneby 11y ago
I was thinking the same thing. People who get hooked on the sport using a $100 board may eventually learn more about the details of the sport and purchase a $1000 board and develop a relationship with their local surf shop. Fly fishing has similar cheap gear at box stores, yet still has a healthy eco-system of specialty shops.
- rburhum 11y ago
  Can confirm. I bought one of these for $99 in February. Used it for 6 months while I learned. Switched to a $900 pin tail two months ago. Oh and I lost 32lbs (mostly fat) in the process. Best $99 I spent this year.
  - magic_beans 11y ago
    How did you get into surfing? Did you take lessons? Did you just go out there and do it? How many times a week did you go? Just curious! Congrats on the weight loss!
    - matwood 11y ago
      My dad taught me as soon as I could stand is how I learned. From there I spent every free moment in the water. No waves that day? Just paddle around. There is a joke in the cheesy North Shore movie where the character asks about working when the waves are good. The response was when the waves are good, no one works. No to sound all zen, but the ocean drives how many times/week you go. I would definitely suggest taking a couple lessons to get started. There are some non-obvious things that someone explaining will help you not get frustrated. I promise you, the first time you ride of the face of a wave you will be hooked.
    - rburhum 11y ago
      Thanks! Best advice ironically is to buy one of these $99 boards and try it out. Watch other people. Check out beginner videos on YouTube (I know do exercise routines for surfers from there). Ah, and super important, is to find a beach that fits your level of expertise. Go online and look surf reports of beaches around you. For a board like the Wavestorm (that floats a lot and is easy to paddle in) in a beginner setting, you should look at waves around 1 to 3 ft for the first months. It will just be fun to fall (and don't be discouraged if you don't catch anything the first three or four days you try). I go at least once a week now (sometimes three, but I have reduced that a bit since shark season started). Have fun!
c3534l 11y ago
It's disrupting in the sense that it's dramatically changed the price point of a board. That is, it's changing the industry, not just competing in it.
supercanuck 11y ago
Question, if you are new to surfing, where to do you go in Southern California without the threat of bullying by locals?
- magic_beans 11y ago
  Manhattan beach is pretty low-key.
- myared 11y ago
  Almost anywhere in San Diego.
- myared 11y ago
  Almost anywhere in San Diego.
- matwood 11y ago
  Also, learn surfing etiquette first. Sit on the beach and really watch what is going on. Waves are typically surfed a single person at a time, so there is an entire unsaid process going on out in the water. Experienced surfers can never meet, yet get along in the water without ever speaking. While some of the process is a bit of peacocking it is mainly being in the best spot for the wave. Rule 1, don't get in the way.
- jmspring 11y ago
  I never had problems at San Onofre, but it's been a few years since I spent any time there (used to drive down the coast for meetings and would stop in). This site seems to have some decent notes: http://www.thesurfingsite.com/Surf-Spots-Southern-California.html http://www.thesurfingsite.com/Surf-Spots-Southern-California... One thought - if you are a beginner or just starting out, don't paddle in with where the crowds are if you can help it. Find a spot a bit away that has waves suitable for the type of surfing you are trying (long board, short board). A long board will let you catch smaller (even junkier) waves easier.
- rcurry 11y ago
  I've surfed a lot of the spots around SoCal and never had a problem with any kind of aggression. There are plenty of guides to surfing etiquette out on the 'net and if you read them and take the lessons to heart, the odds of you having a real problem with anyone (at least here in SoCal) are slim to none. Basically, don't be a kook - be respectful and friendly, and you'll find the surfing community out here is a lot more welcoming than you might think.

forgetsusername 11y ago

>There is still a very big market for performance surfboards in the ~$500 range. Data? From the article, the number of surfers is growing at 1.7% annually, yet this company now sells 5 times more boards than anyone else. The majority of those sales were taken from other companies. If this isn't a disruption story than I don't know what is.

_-__--- 11y ago
your statements don't conflict, it's just an interpretation of the term "very big." Lots of people are buying the softtops, but those people might not be the people still investing in high-end hardtops (if that's the term). If sales of one item are increasing without a concurrent, statistically significant and apparently causal decrease in the sales of supposedly competing items, then it's not really disrupting a current market. It's just making it a lot bigger and getting most of the new volume. You could say that the market is almost tangential to the existing surf shop market.
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >but those people might not be the people still investing in high-end hardtops (if that's the term). Without knowing the underlying numbers, sure. It's possible. But the bigger point is that these small surf shops that sell both mid-priced soft-top and expensive hard-top boards are no longer selling the soft-tops, because an equivalent board can be had for $99, exclusively from Costco. That has to put pressure on the industry, and the supply of higher end boards.
mrharrison 11y ago
I would imagine its the type of board that sits in people's garage and gets used once a year. Once you really get into surfing you then upgrade. People who can really surf wouldn't use something like this. Sorry no data, but this what I see everytime I go out to a break. Beginners on these foam tops, intermediate and advanced on a $600 firewire, CI or vintage custom.
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >People who can really surf wouldn't use something like this. I agree. And let me say, I know nothing about surfing, and am basing my discussion on this one article. I think it's inevitable that the lower barrier to entry will allow the sport to grow, and be good for the "high-end" in the long-run. That's good. But in the meantime, this sort of breakthrough puts pressure on the existing system. I have to assume that shops used to sell more $300 boards than $1000 boards. Now they might be selling zero $300 boards, which have been replaced by the Costco special. So, small shops close. Low-volume producers go out of business. That's exactly what technological disruption is.
  - ryanackley 11y ago
    Again, I have no data, but I imagine that new surfboards are a very low margin business already because the smaller shops seem to stay far away from it. I say this because my local mom and pop surfshop on the beach doesn't even offer in-stock brand-new surfboards. You can however custom order from a local shaper through them. They focus heavily on surf apparel and used surfboards.
ryanackley 11y ago
Some of it is anecdotal. I surf frequently and I am in a relatively large market (Florida). Here is a real data point, the best-selling waveform 8' board is considered a "long" board. Easy to catch waves and ride them into shore but hard to turn and do tricks on. Most surfing literature and culture focuses on riding "short" boards (5'-7'). This is the type of surfing done on the professional circuit and shown in lots of magazines videos etc.
pbrb 11y ago
anecdotal, but here's my viewpoint as a surfer. yes, wavestorms sell like crazy, and are the #1 board i recommend to beginners. even ordering one at $180 w/ shipping can be cheaper than buying another decent used beginner board. so yeah, in that segment of the market, wavestorm is killing it. once you're beyond the beginner stage, outside of small wave or 'fun' sessions, a wavestorm is the last thing you're going to want to surf. a 'hard' surfboard (fiberglass w/ epoxy or poly resin) is pretty much mandatory. the lowest cost 'hard' surfboards are 'pop-outs', made in overseas factories (think ~$300 for a shortboard). these are generally frowned upon by surfers. what surfers really want, and usually buy multiples of, are hand shaped 'hard' boards from local shapers or a couple bigger name brands that still mass produce surfboards, but at a higher price and quality point than the overseas pop-outs ($400-$1000+ depending on size, shaper, color, etc). wave storm is killing it, and definitely disrupted the soft top beginner market. selling through costco with their return policy was probably a very large part of their success too. though, there definitely still is a very large market for performance surfboards in the ~$500 and up range.
- petra 11y ago
  What's wrong with the overseas made boards?
  - mr_luc 11y ago
    Surfer here, spent 7 years in remote coastal south america surfing fairly regularly. It's not that they're made overseas -- it's that the basic method of manufacture he mentioned, "pop-out", in the industry implies using a plastic shell and then pumping foam into it, and a few other similar methods of manufacture. For shortboards, it's pretty terrible. The boards are very heavy for a surfboard, with poor rigidity and flex, and in fact they don't even attempt to target the "real shortboard" market, where extreme light weight, stiffness and a very delicately balanced flex work together to form something that lets you nimbly glide along a decent-sized wave on a board slightly shorter than you are. Basically, the best form of manufacture for surfboards is a core of either high-quality rigid foam (not the heavy, flexible foam used in wavestorm/some pop-outs) or air, covered in substances like fiberglass and/or carbon-fiber fabric and minimal amounts of epoxies (sometimes using the same vacuum techniques as other carbon-fiber manufacturing to minimize weight). I said 'foam or air' because for a while people have been predicting that we'd move to hollow carbon-fiber boards, and there are/have been some of those boards, but they have their drawbacks and are often expensive. Can performance surfboards be disrupted? It's already happened, to a certain extent. Channel Islands and other surfboard brands use automated milling of the foam blanks, and other automated processes as well. Too, any overseas contenders have to worry about shipping. Surfboards are huge -- you could fit 20 boxed iphones in the footprint of a single boxed shortboard. At the price points mentioned ($300-$500), overseas shipping would probably eat into your margin. Shipping is even an issue for domestic producers; often shipping a board halfway across the country can cost $50-$100. Which is a nice bit of extra margin for a local shaper and his customers. When will good surfboards get cheap? Probably when great carbon-fiber bikes get cheap, ie, when carbon-fiber manufacture is so well mastered by man that designs in any shape can be pumped out like Lego.
snowwrestler 11y ago
Not everyone who buys gear uses it. The cheaper the gear, the more that becomes true. I'm not a surfer but I've been a whitewater kayaker for decades. Many people who buy a new whitewater kayak + gear do not go on to become life-long paddlers. And we're talking about $1,500 worth of gear, easy.
rcurry 11y ago
This isn't a disruption story at all - these boards are, basically, cheap bath toys that parents pick up for their kids on Saturday morning before they head to the beach. I think they are great for beginners who don't want to spend money before trying to learn how to surf, but the reality is that most people buy a "real" board almost as soon as they learn to stand up. Also, these things are flimsy - even if you wanted to keep using it after you learn to stand up, the odds of it snapping in half within a few weeks of heavy use are pretty good. I'm not saying they're bad - they are great for beginners, but the market for custom boards isn't really going to get hurt all that much by these.
- leroy_masochist 11y ago
  > these boards are, basically, cheap bath toys that parents pick up for their kids on Saturday morning before they head to the beach. I think they are great for beginners who don't want to spend money before trying to learn how to surf, but the reality is that most people buy a "real" board almost as soon as they learn to stand up. Are you talking about sponge boards in general, or Wavestorm boards specifically? Not like anyone's going to win the Eddie on a Wavestorm, but they're WAY better than previous sponge boards. > the market for custom boards isn't really going to get hurt all that much by these Agree 100%

yitchelle 11y ago

I am not a surfer but growing up in Australia, I get bombarded with adverts from RipCurl, QuickSilver and Billabong etc at a young age. Are the high prices due to the marketing hype that is generated by these companies? Definitely see this marketing hype from these companies' line of clothing.

bmelton 11y ago
A large part of it is because that's what they feel their products are worth / that is what the market will bear, but yes, marketing is indeed a huge cost component of any product that does marketing. The higher-level the marketing, the more expensive a component. Put into perspective, Have you ever been to a grocery store and seen store-brand cereal at a fraction of the cost? They're often (but not always) just as good as their name-brand counterparts, but the cost discrepancy, more than anything, is the marketing budget.

matwood 11y ago

I agree with you. My biggest hurdle to surfing growing up was affording a board. I was a pretty serious surfer up until a few years ago (I know longer live in a place with waves worth surfing). The second part of the expense is that surfboards are very fragile. Minor bumps crack the fiber glass and let water in which in turns destroys the board. I've also broken boards on big waves when coming out of tricks.

ErikRogneby 11y ago

I was thinking the same thing. People who get hooked on the sport using a $100 board may eventually learn more about the details of the sport and purchase a $1000 board and develop a relationship with their local surf shop. Fly fishing has similar cheap gear at box stores, yet still has a healthy eco-system of specialty shops.

rburhum 11y ago
Can confirm. I bought one of these for $99 in February. Used it for 6 months while I learned. Switched to a $900 pin tail two months ago. Oh and I lost 32lbs (mostly fat) in the process. Best $99 I spent this year.
- magic_beans 11y ago
  How did you get into surfing? Did you take lessons? Did you just go out there and do it? How many times a week did you go? Just curious! Congrats on the weight loss!
  - matwood 11y ago
    My dad taught me as soon as I could stand is how I learned. From there I spent every free moment in the water. No waves that day? Just paddle around. There is a joke in the cheesy North Shore movie where the character asks about working when the waves are good. The response was when the waves are good, no one works. No to sound all zen, but the ocean drives how many times/week you go. I would definitely suggest taking a couple lessons to get started. There are some non-obvious things that someone explaining will help you not get frustrated. I promise you, the first time you ride of the face of a wave you will be hooked.
  - rburhum 11y ago
    Thanks! Best advice ironically is to buy one of these $99 boards and try it out. Watch other people. Check out beginner videos on YouTube (I know do exercise routines for surfers from there). Ah, and super important, is to find a beach that fits your level of expertise. Go online and look surf reports of beaches around you. For a board like the Wavestorm (that floats a lot and is easy to paddle in) in a beginner setting, you should look at waves around 1 to 3 ft for the first months. It will just be fun to fall (and don't be discouraged if you don't catch anything the first three or four days you try). I go at least once a week now (sometimes three, but I have reduced that a bit since shark season started). Have fun!

c3534l 11y ago

It's disrupting in the sense that it's dramatically changed the price point of a board. That is, it's changing the industry, not just competing in it.

supercanuck 11y ago

Question, if you are new to surfing, where to do you go in Southern California without the threat of bullying by locals?

magic_beans 11y ago
Manhattan beach is pretty low-key.
myared 11y ago
Almost anywhere in San Diego.
myared 11y ago
Almost anywhere in San Diego.
matwood 11y ago
Also, learn surfing etiquette first. Sit on the beach and really watch what is going on. Waves are typically surfed a single person at a time, so there is an entire unsaid process going on out in the water. Experienced surfers can never meet, yet get along in the water without ever speaking. While some of the process is a bit of peacocking it is mainly being in the best spot for the wave. Rule 1, don't get in the way.
jmspring 11y ago
I never had problems at San Onofre, but it's been a few years since I spent any time there (used to drive down the coast for meetings and would stop in). This site seems to have some decent notes: http://www.thesurfingsite.com/Surf-Spots-Southern-California.html http://www.thesurfingsite.com/Surf-Spots-Southern-California... One thought - if you are a beginner or just starting out, don't paddle in with where the crowds are if you can help it. Find a spot a bit away that has waves suitable for the type of surfing you are trying (long board, short board). A long board will let you catch smaller (even junkier) waves easier.
rcurry 11y ago
I've surfed a lot of the spots around SoCal and never had a problem with any kind of aggression. There are plenty of guides to surfing etiquette out on the 'net and if you read them and take the lessons to heart, the odds of you having a real problem with anyone (at least here in SoCal) are slim to none. Basically, don't be a kook - be respectful and friendly, and you'll find the surfing community out here is a lot more welcoming than you might think.