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I hope young people reading that article realize it's talking about someone winning the lottery. There's statistically zero chance that will happen to you, so y

by bsaul 11y ago

I hope young people reading that article realize it's talking about someone winning the lottery. There's statistically zero chance that will happen to you, so you'd better work on your exams than code through the night and fail them.

finyeates 11y ago
I somewhat disagree. If someone has the passion that they'd rather code than study: They're most likely doing the wrong thing. There needs to be more people chasing their dreams rather then being cranked through the academia process.
- trymas 11y ago
  TL;DR: imho there should be a balance between catching your passionate goals and broadening your knowledge pool by getting 'normal' education. Many success stories are marginal cases and can be compared to winning a lottery ticket. Well I should agree with both of you. Many success stories must be taken with a grain of salt. Some of them are truly like winning a lottery. Also making idols out of college/school dropouts is not very healthy for society over all. I agree that today you can make descent money by making web/mobile applications, but do not think that you will be a millionaire or be hired by google/facebook/apple/etc within a year. But if you are passionate about something you should (or even must) pursue it. IMHO marginal cases should not be idolised. I have seen too many people who believe that every one can code, though ignoring that software development requires great knowledge and education (formal or informal).
- bsaul 11y ago
  Haven't ever had any teacher telling you to do something you didn't like to do, and then once you've done it, you realize how much better you've become at a given subject ? That's also a part of learning, and a part of the advantage of having a teacher. Sometimes, you need to do things you don't like in the short term, that will prove to be an excellent thing in the long term. Now i'm not saying someone shouldn't code in their spare time. Just don't trash your exams for it. Keep a balance. Maybe in a few years you'll realize you'll want to become a doctor and save lives rather than create video games. Keep the doors open.
  - forgetsusername 11y ago
    >Haven't ever had any teacher telling you to do something you didn't like to do, This is an important point. Let's face it, kids are socially stupid and inexperienced. They don't know what they want, what they need, what's good for them or even what's out there. Their worlds are small. 15 year old me would eat pizza every meal if it were my choice. Allowing for the freedom of exploration is important, but so is a little bit of steering.
- halayli 11y ago
  you can chase all the dreams you want. It doesn't change the fact that chances this happening to someone else is almost 0. He's not the only person with a passion. Many superb software engineers to be won't get the opportunity he got.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Following your dreams is a tax on people who are bad at statistics.
- amelius 11y ago
  Being a programmer without good knowledge of calculus, linear algebra, etc. is going to suck. Even if you don't need it for your current project.
  - jack9 11y ago
    Linear Algebra is almost worthless to most programmers. I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise. Of course it has use in specific industry. So what? There's a lot of thinking that math is a fundamental part of software development. That was true when the problems were coming up with abstractions that required specific solutions. That hasn't been the focus of development, for decades. Welcome to the world of data processing and presentation (the vast majority of time and effort is in UI).
    - cableshaft 11y ago
      Most business and web programmers would find it useless, perhaps, but if you're wanting to go into video games, simulation, physics, aerospace, robotics/internet of things (i.e. sensors), or the about to explode virtual reality field, you will most likely benefit quite a bit from linear algebra. I've found it much more useful than my calculus classes, personally (although calculus is also useful to know for most of these industries). Yes, those are specific industries, but that's quite a few specific industries. There's probably others that could benefit from it as well.
      - gozo 11y ago
        That's more because math is important to those fields though. If you're making e.g. a video game math is a very small part of the overall work. It's cool as a hobby if you can go "I know math and I know programming, therefor I can make this game like thing". But if you wanna work as a game programmer your better off focusing on that and figuring out whatever math you need along the way.
    - zeroxfe 11y ago
      > I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise. graphics, machine learning, cryptography, data compression, optimization, physics, simulations, genetics, traffic flow analysis, economics, audio processing, control systems, vision...
- coldtea 11y ago
  >I somewhat disagree. If someone has the passion that they'd rather code than study The problem is everybody thinks they have the "passion" (and the "good idea"). (where by "everybody" I mean, a hell of a lot of people who should be studying instead, not literally everybody).
- rawTruthHurts 11y ago
  Passion doesn't save you from your own lack of talent.
- badpenny 11y ago
  Studying and coding aren't mutually exclusive. Most people who program for a living did so by studying and exams. It's not sexy but then real life mostly isn't. There are plenty of people "chasing their dreams" but a lot (most?) of them will have to settle for less because of the way the world works.
- cabinpark 11y ago
  >There needs to be more people chasing their dreams rather then being cranked through the academia process. I am reminded of the following story I experienced in my first year chemistry class. The class was being taught by the head of undergraduate studies for science and he asked us (a room of 500 students) how many people wanted to become chemists and maybe 20 or so people put up their hand. How many people want to become physicists? Maybe 30 or so put up their hand. How many people want to become doctors? A good 400 people put up their hand. He then said "only 20 of you will make it to med school, I hope you have a back-up plan." The problem is that we only hear about the success stories not the vast amount of people who fail. That isn't to say don't follow your dreams, but be realistic about them and have other options available when things don't go your way.
- kartan 11y ago
  >There needs to be more people chasing their dreams rather then being cranked through the academia process. That's really bad advice. Going through a formal learning process is going to help you to understand not only technology but also processes. And you are also going to meet there a lot of people with similar interests. Not studying when you want a job in the industry is taking an extremely hard path (that's why is news that some on achieves it) for the sake of it. And you always can do both. I know a lot of people that goes to University and develop software in their spare time.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  But what are those people going to do when they fail? Chasing your dreams is great. Doing so at the expense of schooling, especially when it's possible to do both, is a gamble at best.
anonmeow 11y ago
The same could be said about startups.
- te_chris 11y ago
  Not sure anyone was ever disagreeing with that.
- coldtea 11y ago
  And it would be correct for them too.
- OJFord 11y ago
  Yeah, but I think people generally 'get' that. If I'd read this "pre-teen" (when the article said he started) I'm pretty sure I would have been like, "that's what I'm going to do". I remember a friend and I had grandiose plans for a Harry Potter themed MMO. We never got past the 'loading' screen because, y'know, we were ~12 and having a loading screen seemed like a prior job to having anything to load..
tim333 11y ago
Exams can be retaken. If you fail because you are dumb there's not much you can do but if you fail because you were building something cool then that's fixable.
- gnodar 11y ago
  "Exams can be retaken." Is this sarcasm? I suppose if you fail and have to retake the class, then you can "retake" the exam, but that closes a lot of doors when trying to get in to a good college. And most likely if you're "not dumb", you'll end up with a C on the exam and pass the class with a low grade, rather than outright failing it. In which case you would not be able to retake the exam.
- gozo 11y ago
  Somewhat funny coincidence that the top picture on your twitter (linked from your profile) is of the former prime minister of Sweden who changed the rules for student loans so they can be suspended after failing just one exam.
Bjorkbat 11y ago
He won the lottery first time around. The second time around he gambled a bit, but he also put in the work to give his app the right amount of polish, struck a partnership with a marketing company, found a way to haggle with Parse, etc. Sure, I won't dismiss luck as a factor, luck is always a factor when it comes to games, about a third of it probably, but the chance of someone just getting lucky from their game is, well, statistically zero (and probably the most offensive thing someone could ever tell you). Statistically speaking, the chance of creating a successful game is slim, the chance of creating a successful startup (or even a small company) is slim, the chance of getting promoted to a really high level within the company is slim, the odds of a lot of nice thoughts happening within our lives are slim. The thing is that these odds are just averages, it's definitely within the realm of possibility to beat the averages. Having a rich uncle helps, but not nearly as much as having a better strategy than average, developing better partnerships than average, putting in more work than average, and being more determined than average. And I will agree that you really shouldn't choose exams over app, but I can kinda relate with the kid, when your family loses their home and is struggling to make ends meet with their downsized apartment, thinking about acing your exams just isn't something you think about. Survival is on your mind and sometimes you come up with some pretty crazy ideas to make that happen.
hitgeek 11y ago
getting an app to the top of the app store is probably mostly luck in this context. But landing a good job at a respected technology company was the result of some serious hard work and dedication. Not failing exams is nonetheless good advice for anyone

by bsaul 11y ago

finyeates 11y ago

I somewhat disagree. If someone has the passion that they'd rather code than study: They're most likely doing the wrong thing. There needs to be more people chasing their dreams rather then being cranked through the academia process.

trymas 11y ago
TL;DR: imho there should be a balance between catching your passionate goals and broadening your knowledge pool by getting 'normal' education. Many success stories are marginal cases and can be compared to winning a lottery ticket. Well I should agree with both of you. Many success stories must be taken with a grain of salt. Some of them are truly like winning a lottery. Also making idols out of college/school dropouts is not very healthy for society over all. I agree that today you can make descent money by making web/mobile applications, but do not think that you will be a millionaire or be hired by google/facebook/apple/etc within a year. But if you are passionate about something you should (or even must) pursue it. IMHO marginal cases should not be idolised. I have seen too many people who believe that every one can code, though ignoring that software development requires great knowledge and education (formal or informal).
bsaul 11y ago
Haven't ever had any teacher telling you to do something you didn't like to do, and then once you've done it, you realize how much better you've become at a given subject ? That's also a part of learning, and a part of the advantage of having a teacher. Sometimes, you need to do things you don't like in the short term, that will prove to be an excellent thing in the long term. Now i'm not saying someone shouldn't code in their spare time. Just don't trash your exams for it. Keep a balance. Maybe in a few years you'll realize you'll want to become a doctor and save lives rather than create video games. Keep the doors open.
- forgetsusername 11y ago
  >Haven't ever had any teacher telling you to do something you didn't like to do, This is an important point. Let's face it, kids are socially stupid and inexperienced. They don't know what they want, what they need, what's good for them or even what's out there. Their worlds are small. 15 year old me would eat pizza every meal if it were my choice. Allowing for the freedom of exploration is important, but so is a little bit of steering.
halayli 11y ago
you can chase all the dreams you want. It doesn't change the fact that chances this happening to someone else is almost 0. He's not the only person with a passion. Many superb software engineers to be won't get the opportunity he got.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Following your dreams is a tax on people who are bad at statistics.
amelius 11y ago
Being a programmer without good knowledge of calculus, linear algebra, etc. is going to suck. Even if you don't need it for your current project.
- jack9 11y ago
  Linear Algebra is almost worthless to most programmers. I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise. Of course it has use in specific industry. So what? There's a lot of thinking that math is a fundamental part of software development. That was true when the problems were coming up with abstractions that required specific solutions. That hasn't been the focus of development, for decades. Welcome to the world of data processing and presentation (the vast majority of time and effort is in UI).
  - cableshaft 11y ago
    Most business and web programmers would find it useless, perhaps, but if you're wanting to go into video games, simulation, physics, aerospace, robotics/internet of things (i.e. sensors), or the about to explode virtual reality field, you will most likely benefit quite a bit from linear algebra. I've found it much more useful than my calculus classes, personally (although calculus is also useful to know for most of these industries). Yes, those are specific industries, but that's quite a few specific industries. There's probably others that could benefit from it as well.
    - gozo 11y ago
      That's more because math is important to those fields though. If you're making e.g. a video game math is a very small part of the overall work. It's cool as a hobby if you can go "I know math and I know programming, therefor I can make this game like thing". But if you wanna work as a game programmer your better off focusing on that and figuring out whatever math you need along the way.
  - zeroxfe 11y ago
    > I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise. graphics, machine learning, cryptography, data compression, optimization, physics, simulations, genetics, traffic flow analysis, economics, audio processing, control systems, vision...
coldtea 11y ago
>I somewhat disagree. If someone has the passion that they'd rather code than study The problem is everybody thinks they have the "passion" (and the "good idea"). (where by "everybody" I mean, a hell of a lot of people who should be studying instead, not literally everybody).
rawTruthHurts 11y ago
Passion doesn't save you from your own lack of talent.
badpenny 11y ago
Studying and coding aren't mutually exclusive. Most people who program for a living did so by studying and exams. It's not sexy but then real life mostly isn't. There are plenty of people "chasing their dreams" but a lot (most?) of them will have to settle for less because of the way the world works.
cabinpark 11y ago
>There needs to be more people chasing their dreams rather then being cranked through the academia process. I am reminded of the following story I experienced in my first year chemistry class. The class was being taught by the head of undergraduate studies for science and he asked us (a room of 500 students) how many people wanted to become chemists and maybe 20 or so people put up their hand. How many people want to become physicists? Maybe 30 or so put up their hand. How many people want to become doctors? A good 400 people put up their hand. He then said "only 20 of you will make it to med school, I hope you have a back-up plan." The problem is that we only hear about the success stories not the vast amount of people who fail. That isn't to say don't follow your dreams, but be realistic about them and have other options available when things don't go your way.
kartan 11y ago
>There needs to be more people chasing their dreams rather then being cranked through the academia process. That's really bad advice. Going through a formal learning process is going to help you to understand not only technology but also processes. And you are also going to meet there a lot of people with similar interests. Not studying when you want a job in the industry is taking an extremely hard path (that's why is news that some on achieves it) for the sake of it. And you always can do both. I know a lot of people that goes to University and develop software in their spare time.
s73v3r 11y ago
But what are those people going to do when they fail? Chasing your dreams is great. Doing so at the expense of schooling, especially when it's possible to do both, is a gamble at best.

anonmeow 11y ago

The same could be said about startups.

te_chris 11y ago
Not sure anyone was ever disagreeing with that.
coldtea 11y ago
And it would be correct for them too.
OJFord 11y ago
Yeah, but I think people generally 'get' that. If I'd read this "pre-teen" (when the article said he started) I'm pretty sure I would have been like, "that's what I'm going to do". I remember a friend and I had grandiose plans for a Harry Potter themed MMO. We never got past the 'loading' screen because, y'know, we were ~12 and having a loading screen seemed like a prior job to having anything to load..

tim333 11y ago

Exams can be retaken. If you fail because you are dumb there's not much you can do but if you fail because you were building something cool then that's fixable.

gnodar 11y ago
"Exams can be retaken." Is this sarcasm? I suppose if you fail and have to retake the class, then you can "retake" the exam, but that closes a lot of doors when trying to get in to a good college. And most likely if you're "not dumb", you'll end up with a C on the exam and pass the class with a low grade, rather than outright failing it. In which case you would not be able to retake the exam.
gozo 11y ago
Somewhat funny coincidence that the top picture on your twitter (linked from your profile) is of the former prime minister of Sweden who changed the rules for student loans so they can be suspended after failing just one exam.

Bjorkbat 11y ago

He won the lottery first time around. The second time around he gambled a bit, but he also put in the work to give his app the right amount of polish, struck a partnership with a marketing company, found a way to haggle with Parse, etc. Sure, I won't dismiss luck as a factor, luck is always a factor when it comes to games, about a third of it probably, but the chance of someone just getting lucky from their game is, well, statistically zero (and probably the most offensive thing someone could ever tell you). Statistically speaking, the chance of creating a successful game is slim, the chance of creating a successful startup (or even a small company) is slim, the chance of getting promoted to a really high level within the company is slim, the odds of a lot of nice thoughts happening within our lives are slim. The thing is that these odds are just averages, it's definitely within the realm of possibility to beat the averages. Having a rich uncle helps, but not nearly as much as having a better strategy than average, developing better partnerships than average, putting in more work than average, and being more determined than average. And I will agree that you really shouldn't choose exams over app, but I can kinda relate with the kid, when your family loses their home and is struggling to make ends meet with their downsized apartment, thinking about acing your exams just isn't something you think about. Survival is on your mind and sometimes you come up with some pretty crazy ideas to make that happen.

hitgeek 11y ago

getting an app to the top of the app store is probably mostly luck in this context. But landing a good job at a respected technology company was the result of some serious hard work and dedication. Not failing exams is nonetheless good advice for anyone