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I will add one more reason: with appearance of online outsourcing platforms, best developers flocked there as individuals (and that is the only way to really re

I will add one more reason: with appearance of online outsourcing platforms, best developers flocked there as individuals (and that is the only way to really reliably make $4000 as a developer in Ukraine as far as i know). They don't have middlemen, which normally only get in the way by obscuring the communication, and easily beat any outsourcing shops (which don't do much valuable management anyway, just lease out workers). Because individual freelancers and offshore outsourcing companies' employees are doing the same work, only people who left with the agencies are those who are inept and know it - otherwise they'd go to Upwork themselves and get an instant 3x raise. So don't expect an agency to have good people...

stevoski 11y ago
A Ukrainian developer told me that working for a large outsourcing shop looked better in the eyes of her friends and family than being a freelancer. She said being a freelancer, was, in her opinion, seen as a sign you couldn't get work with a big consulting firm. She had just become a freelancer, despite her perceived drop in status.
- anovikov 11y ago
  It may be because she is a novice developer and not immersed much into the IT world, and not highly qualified yet. With the non-IT people 'freelancer' might look like a nice word for 'unemployed'. Much higher status of an experienced freelancer is undeniable (a $4000 freelancer is solid upper class - able to afford multiple full time home staff - in most of Ukraine)
- spdionis 11y ago
  Being from Moldova, and working on Upwork, I understand what he means... There is a bit of distaste for freelancers because there are a lot of very cheap freelancers working on the local market (because they would not be able to find a good project on upwork) with very low quality of work. All questions go away though when you tell your family how much more money you make. EDIT: As per sibling comment, there are two types of freelancers: very high qualified or very low qualified. The general public usually hears more about the low qualified ones though.
  - dasil003 11y ago
    she
  - anovikov 11y ago
    Hard to tell. I hired many people on Upwork, and i can say that there are quite some mid-tier ones. Charging about $15 an hour and in general, worth their money - for example, overally good but with English so poor they can't get high paying customers themselves.
SimpleMinds 11y ago
Mostly true, with caveat: it's hard to find big projects as single freelancer. Simply put, you won't be able to score a client that needs (let's say) both server side, front end, android/ios app finished in the same time. When working in (good) outsourcing shop, you work as a team. I worked for two good outsourcing shops and both experiences were great.
- BjoernKW 11y ago
  > Simply put, you won't be able to score a client that needs (let's say) both server side, front end, android/ios app finished in the same time. While that might be the case for some clients or projects mostly the problem is a sales and legal one. Single freelancers can't afford to deal with ridiculously complex enterprise sales processes. Large clients on the other hand for the most part don't want to be directly involved with contractors due to administrative (managing accounts payable for a huge number of small suppliers instead of just a handful of large suppliers) and legal reasons (managing and assessing individual supplier contracts; depending on the country and how you market your services as a freelancer there can also be issues around fake self-employment, which this way large clients can conveniently outsource to a third party).
- swah 11y ago
  Good point - I wonder how many people can do all 3 (web/android/ios)? Is it a good strategy?
  - SimpleMinds 11y ago
    I can do all three and you can find a lot of people who can. The problem is how many things you can do at once.
- maratd 11y ago
  > it's hard to find big projects as single freelancer. > server side, front end, android/ios app finished in the same time This is not true. The freelancer simply needs to position himself as someone who can build and manage a team that can do that. I've served as a technical lead on projects managing other freelancers. Large projects.

stevoski 11y ago

A Ukrainian developer told me that working for a large outsourcing shop looked better in the eyes of her friends and family than being a freelancer. She said being a freelancer, was, in her opinion, seen as a sign you couldn't get work with a big consulting firm. She had just become a freelancer, despite her perceived drop in status.

anovikov 11y ago
It may be because she is a novice developer and not immersed much into the IT world, and not highly qualified yet. With the non-IT people 'freelancer' might look like a nice word for 'unemployed'. Much higher status of an experienced freelancer is undeniable (a $4000 freelancer is solid upper class - able to afford multiple full time home staff - in most of Ukraine)
spdionis 11y ago
Being from Moldova, and working on Upwork, I understand what he means... There is a bit of distaste for freelancers because there are a lot of very cheap freelancers working on the local market (because they would not be able to find a good project on upwork) with very low quality of work. All questions go away though when you tell your family how much more money you make. EDIT: As per sibling comment, there are two types of freelancers: very high qualified or very low qualified. The general public usually hears more about the low qualified ones though.
- dasil003 11y ago
  she
- anovikov 11y ago
  Hard to tell. I hired many people on Upwork, and i can say that there are quite some mid-tier ones. Charging about $15 an hour and in general, worth their money - for example, overally good but with English so poor they can't get high paying customers themselves.

SimpleMinds 11y ago

Mostly true, with caveat: it's hard to find big projects as single freelancer. Simply put, you won't be able to score a client that needs (let's say) both server side, front end, android/ios app finished in the same time. When working in (good) outsourcing shop, you work as a team. I worked for two good outsourcing shops and both experiences were great.

BjoernKW 11y ago
> Simply put, you won't be able to score a client that needs (let's say) both server side, front end, android/ios app finished in the same time. While that might be the case for some clients or projects mostly the problem is a sales and legal one. Single freelancers can't afford to deal with ridiculously complex enterprise sales processes. Large clients on the other hand for the most part don't want to be directly involved with contractors due to administrative (managing accounts payable for a huge number of small suppliers instead of just a handful of large suppliers) and legal reasons (managing and assessing individual supplier contracts; depending on the country and how you market your services as a freelancer there can also be issues around fake self-employment, which this way large clients can conveniently outsource to a third party).
swah 11y ago
Good point - I wonder how many people can do all 3 (web/android/ios)? Is it a good strategy?
- SimpleMinds 11y ago
  I can do all three and you can find a lot of people who can. The problem is how many things you can do at once.
maratd 11y ago
> it's hard to find big projects as single freelancer. > server side, front end, android/ios app finished in the same time This is not true. The freelancer simply needs to position himself as someone who can build and manage a team that can do that. I've served as a technical lead on projects managing other freelancers. Large projects.