7 ms·

How to Build a Low-Tech Internet

135 points by lispython 11y ago

gloves 11y ago
Precious Lunga spoke at Business of Software on this topic, seems like the work of Econet Wireless seems to be trying to address this issue. Some interesting stats here: http://www.slideshare.net/marklittlewood/bos2015-precious-lunga-how-can-we-use-existing-tech-to-make-a-difference-in-the-world http://www.slideshare.net/marklittlewood/bos2015-precious-lu... Additionally there is a whole raft of IoT enabled devices making this possible too - think the future is bright :)
uberneo 11y ago
This is the place where all these communities meet every year - http://battlemesh.org/ http://battlemesh.org/
- smcl 11y ago
  It seems fitting that this event is taking place in Slovenia. I read a bunch of stuff recently about how there's an excellent homebrew packet radio network in the mountains there - http://www.hamradio.si/~s51kq/PACKET.HTM http://www.hamradio.si/~s51kq/PACKET.HTM
Illniyar 11y ago
Since when is WIFI considered low tech? I think these definitions need a bit of a rehaul, flying baloons are much more low tech then WiFi antenna IMO.
- tonylemesmer 11y ago
  what about flying balloons with wifi antennae - Seen a working version yet?
- Natanael_L 11y ago
  More like low-resource networks, or maybe hobby-grade infrastructure?
- dfox 11y ago
  These networks tend to be mostly WiFi based because the hardware is cheap enough that homegrown "low-tech" alternatives (like FSO or custom radio protocols) are more expensive. I remember that ~15 years ago building these sort of networks involved various experiments with hooking up various home-grown radio modems or gutted laser pointers to serial ports, but today the technology of choice is either WiFi or commercial microwave PTP links operating in unlicensed spectrum (which are order of magnitude more expensive than WiFi, but have significantly better performance, also unlicensed spectrum usable for such links is not available in every country).
  - snerbles 11y ago
    RONJA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA) is one such homebrew free-space optical (FSO) link.
- kevinchen 11y ago
  Perhaps "low-cost" is a better adjective. Wi-Fi hardware and knowledge are ubiquitous — the article says the buying Wi-Fi hardware is cheaper than rolling your own. Also, I'd imagine if the people setting up the network leave, others will have an easier time maintaining if the network uses a very popular link layer.
w8rbt 11y ago
Great quote from the article, "The internet as we know it in the industrialized world is a product of an abundant energy supply, a robust electricity infrastructure, and sustained economic growth. It cannot survive if these conditions change." Sort of like sending Morse Code over a radio hooked to a 9 volt battery. Twenty words per minute seems slow until that's all you have. The other important point to take away from the article is that most of humanity is in slow/no internet regions.
- schiffern 11y ago
  >The internet as we know it in the industrialized world is a product of an abundant energy supply, a robust electricity infrastructure, and sustained economic growth. It cannot survive if these conditions change. I was going to run the numbers for Elon Musk's 4000 satellite low-latency global gigabit pizza-box phased-array rooftop antenna internet, but I think that's even more dependent on those conditions. SpaceX is shooting for a new hardware spin every 5 years.
  - mikegioia 11y ago
    Musk's 4000 satellite low latency global gigabit pizza box phased array rooftop antenna internet I don't think you can give a better description than that.
- pjc50 11y ago
  "sustained economic growth" is the most likely of those to be interrupted, which is concerning. As is the extent to which we're dependent on free VC-funded ad-supported services.
  - mkj 11y ago
    I don't see a justification for "sustained economic growth" being a requirement?
    - Natanael_L 11y ago
      As long as bandwidth requirements don't grow too much, solar panels can keep most routers alive, and most of the hardware don't need much maintenance. So ever increasing profits isn't exactly a requirement.
Johnythree 11y ago
Incredible that an entire article could be written without mentioning the Amateur Radio Packet network which dates back to the '70's.
- dfox 11y ago
  In my experience there is (or at least was) very strong animosity between HAMs and people who build networks of this kind. To some extent I view that as conflict between doing things "the right way" and "it works, so what".
  - throwaway7767 11y ago
    Amateur radio also has a lot of rules, and you have some people whose primary interest in the hobby seems to be tearing down other peoples work by citing FCC (or equivalent) regs. I'm thinking in particular about the rule that encryption is banned on amateur bands, which really makes it not suitable for general internet access. More sensible people just ignore those rules, and that creates animosity with the above-mentioned group.
    - jff 11y ago
      Well, hams are doing their thing on their bands, and if somebody comes in and stomps all over the bands (cough WINLINK cough) it's kind of a dick move. Luckily, most of the ham bands are so low in frequency that they're not really suitable for general Internet access. 2m could get you dialup speeds over a pretty wide radius with some cheap equipment. Get a directional antenna and a hilltop repeater and you'd be in even better shape. The FCC absolutely could shave off a small chunk of the 2m band for encryption-OK Internet links (say, as a way to link up smaller wifi nets), but you're right, most hams would kick and scream even though they all just sit idle on whatever local repeater. And I'd have a hard time blaming them (I'm a ham myself) because they do not want to set a precedent of losing any band space. High-power wifi is allowed with an amateur radio license, but because you're operating as an amateur licensee you're not allowed to use encryption, so you can't use it to e.g. bring Internet access to a remote RV park.
scarmig 11y ago
Interestingly, the TCP/UDP alternatives they're talking about (delay tolerant networks) are also very important on the other side of things, interplanetary networking[0]. Hard problems have a way of cropping up in lots of places... [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Internet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Internet

135 points by lispython 11y ago

Precious Lunga spoke at Business of Software on this topic, seems like the work of Econet Wireless seems to be trying to address this issue. Some interesting stats here: http://www.slideshare.net/marklittlewood/bos2015-precious-lunga-how-can-we-use-existing-tech-to-make-a-difference-in-the-world http://www.slideshare.net/marklittlewood/bos2015-precious-lu... Additionally there is a whole raft of IoT enabled devices making this possible too - think the future is bright :)

uberneo 11y ago

This is the place where all these communities meet every year - http://battlemesh.org/ http://battlemesh.org/

smcl 11y ago
It seems fitting that this event is taking place in Slovenia. I read a bunch of stuff recently about how there's an excellent homebrew packet radio network in the mountains there - http://www.hamradio.si/~s51kq/PACKET.HTM http://www.hamradio.si/~s51kq/PACKET.HTM

Illniyar 11y ago

Since when is WIFI considered low tech? I think these definitions need a bit of a rehaul, flying baloons are much more low tech then WiFi antenna IMO.

tonylemesmer 11y ago
what about flying balloons with wifi antennae - Seen a working version yet?
Natanael_L 11y ago
More like low-resource networks, or maybe hobby-grade infrastructure?
dfox 11y ago
These networks tend to be mostly WiFi based because the hardware is cheap enough that homegrown "low-tech" alternatives (like FSO or custom radio protocols) are more expensive. I remember that ~15 years ago building these sort of networks involved various experiments with hooking up various home-grown radio modems or gutted laser pointers to serial ports, but today the technology of choice is either WiFi or commercial microwave PTP links operating in unlicensed spectrum (which are order of magnitude more expensive than WiFi, but have significantly better performance, also unlicensed spectrum usable for such links is not available in every country).
- snerbles 11y ago
  RONJA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RONJA) is one such homebrew free-space optical (FSO) link.
kevinchen 11y ago
Perhaps "low-cost" is a better adjective. Wi-Fi hardware and knowledge are ubiquitous — the article says the buying Wi-Fi hardware is cheaper than rolling your own. Also, I'd imagine if the people setting up the network leave, others will have an easier time maintaining if the network uses a very popular link layer.

w8rbt 11y ago

Great quote from the article, "The internet as we know it in the industrialized world is a product of an abundant energy supply, a robust electricity infrastructure, and sustained economic growth. It cannot survive if these conditions change." Sort of like sending Morse Code over a radio hooked to a 9 volt battery. Twenty words per minute seems slow until that's all you have. The other important point to take away from the article is that most of humanity is in slow/no internet regions.

schiffern 11y ago
>The internet as we know it in the industrialized world is a product of an abundant energy supply, a robust electricity infrastructure, and sustained economic growth. It cannot survive if these conditions change. I was going to run the numbers for Elon Musk's 4000 satellite low-latency global gigabit pizza-box phased-array rooftop antenna internet, but I think that's even more dependent on those conditions. SpaceX is shooting for a new hardware spin every 5 years.
- mikegioia 11y ago
  Musk's 4000 satellite low latency global gigabit pizza box phased array rooftop antenna internet I don't think you can give a better description than that.
pjc50 11y ago
"sustained economic growth" is the most likely of those to be interrupted, which is concerning. As is the extent to which we're dependent on free VC-funded ad-supported services.
- mkj 11y ago
  I don't see a justification for "sustained economic growth" being a requirement?
  - Natanael_L 11y ago
    As long as bandwidth requirements don't grow too much, solar panels can keep most routers alive, and most of the hardware don't need much maintenance. So ever increasing profits isn't exactly a requirement.

Johnythree 11y ago

Incredible that an entire article could be written without mentioning the Amateur Radio Packet network which dates back to the '70's.

dfox 11y ago
In my experience there is (or at least was) very strong animosity between HAMs and people who build networks of this kind. To some extent I view that as conflict between doing things "the right way" and "it works, so what".
- throwaway7767 11y ago
  Amateur radio also has a lot of rules, and you have some people whose primary interest in the hobby seems to be tearing down other peoples work by citing FCC (or equivalent) regs. I'm thinking in particular about the rule that encryption is banned on amateur bands, which really makes it not suitable for general internet access. More sensible people just ignore those rules, and that creates animosity with the above-mentioned group.
  - jff 11y ago
    Well, hams are doing their thing on their bands, and if somebody comes in and stomps all over the bands (cough WINLINK cough) it's kind of a dick move. Luckily, most of the ham bands are so low in frequency that they're not really suitable for general Internet access. 2m could get you dialup speeds over a pretty wide radius with some cheap equipment. Get a directional antenna and a hilltop repeater and you'd be in even better shape. The FCC absolutely could shave off a small chunk of the 2m band for encryption-OK Internet links (say, as a way to link up smaller wifi nets), but you're right, most hams would kick and scream even though they all just sit idle on whatever local repeater. And I'd have a hard time blaming them (I'm a ham myself) because they do not want to set a precedent of losing any band space. High-power wifi is allowed with an amateur radio license, but because you're operating as an amateur licensee you're not allowed to use encryption, so you can't use it to e.g. bring Internet access to a remote RV park.

scarmig 11y ago

Interestingly, the TCP/UDP alternatives they're talking about (delay tolerant networks) are also very important on the other side of things, interplanetary networking[0]. Hard problems have a way of cropping up in lots of places... [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Internet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Internet