8 ms·

Off topics but the fact that Uber requires you to have the latest version of its app to book rides is ridiculous. Not everyone has the newest smartphone with to

by kirk21 11y ago

Off topics but the fact that Uber requires you to have the latest version of its app to book rides is ridiculous. Not everyone has the newest smartphone with tons of space to update apps.

archildress 11y ago
I think if you're a driver, an up to date phone is a business expense. The latest version of the app doesn't require the latest phone - just enough space.
- wavefunction 11y ago
  Contract employees are supposed to be able to determine the tools they will use to complete their tasks, by law.
  - tacos 11y ago
    As part of the independent contractor guidelines, they have to supply the tool (versus the employer buying it for them). But tools and equipment are commonly specified (even down to a specific tool model for insurance requirements or material brand for warranty requirements) as part of contracted labor.
  - mahyarm 11y ago
    If the job requires certain certain strength tools, you need a good enough tool to complete it. Like digging soft dirt tools vs breaking up hard stone tools to dig a hole somewhere...
  - archildress 11y ago
    And they are. Android versus iPhone, Nexus versus Galaxy, etc. If I hire someone to cut down a tree on contract, I can't dictate their tool of choice - only that it complies with what's necessary to complete the work. There are plenty of fair criticisms of Uber. This isn't one.
janesvilleseo 11y ago
Or maybe they are using it as a screening device for "better" drivers. I keep hearing that when Uber comes to a new city, the pay is pretty good so it attracts non-ESL speaking drivers. Maybe this is just a barrier to enter the marketplace to maintain those 'better' drivers. Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised.
- JupiterMoon 11y ago
  Or they could just pay their good employees better and then fire the poor ones. P.S. I know that they claim that their drivers are not employees but if it walks like an employee and talks like an employee it's an employee.
  - mjcohen 11y ago
    Only if it gets paid like an employee.
  - wavefunction 11y ago
    I made this point upthread but contractors are free to use whatever tools they like to accomplish their tasks, by law. Full-time employees are subject to using specified equipment by the employer.
    - rco8786 11y ago
      Not exactly how it works. Contractors can choose but it doesn't mean they can choose tools that don't do the job. If part f the job is storing backup data on a phone the tool needs to be a phone capable of storing backup data.
      - HappyTypist 11y ago
        The biggest argument I've seen for uber drivers being contractors is that they can work for competitors at the same time. Any employee would get fired pretty quickly.
  - 11y ago
jimminy 11y ago
I actually got stuck out at Fort Mason one day during the Launch Conference last spring because of this issue. I used an Uber to get there, but when I went to leave the app required an update and I couldn't get a decent enough connection to download the update near the venue.
- brazzledazzle 11y ago
  They really should let you use the N-1 version at the very least. That should prevent these same day/trip issues.
  - jimminy 11y ago
    I have a feeling they probably do. I hadn't updated in a week or two, just out of laziness to not check for updates everyday. So it's possible I had missed more than one update that caused the issue.
    - mahyarm 11y ago
      I heard the force-upgrade window is 3 months. To verify just deny updates until the app doesn't let you use the uber app anymore. It might also be necessary fixes pushing up the minimum version.
  - amelius 11y ago
    They should just use a decent website (web-app), in my humble opinion.
    - jfoster 11y ago
      They have that: https://m.uber.com/ https://m.uber.com/
  - Namrog84 11y ago
    It perhaps allow you to book 1 ride on an outdated version and warn you its the last one. Then lock account until you've updated so you don't get stranded like that 1 person
philippnagel 11y ago
It's very hard to maintain compatibility for different versions of mobile operating systems. API's, etc. change or break completely all the time. Often it is simply a trade-off between acquiring new, perhaps more affluent users, and loosing those with less money to spend and cheaper phones. The morality behind this is questionable off course.
- jasonlotito 11y ago
  And then you have people like in this comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10446977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10446977 > It's very hard to maintain compatibility for different versions of mobile operating systems. Except it's not. It requires thought, but the reality is, they aren't trying to maintain compatibility, they are merely saying "Nope, you have to have the latest and greatest or it won't work" regardless of whether it would work or not. If anything, this demonstrates that Uber itself is not concerned with quality. Considering my experiences with Uber in the past, this is not surprising.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    Quality is many faceted. One aspect that's relevant here is predictability and Uber chooses to meet their prescribed level of predictability by controlling the phone OS/version.
- ryandrake 11y ago
  Really? "It's very hard"? That's the explanation for such poor software engineering practices? I guess their engineers are only paid to solve easy problems.
  - bitwize 11y ago
    The good software engineering practives of yesterday are for old people. Young people are just smarter. They move fast and break stuff. Makin' omelettes, man. Shhhyeah.
    - 11y ago
aristidb 11y ago
Parent got downvoted, but I think it's a legitimate concern: refusing people rides because for whatever reason (old phone, poor / expensive Internet connectivity) they can't update the app is problematic.
- brazzledazzle 11y ago
  It would be neat if they gave you a short list of temporary codes in the app that doesn't rely on connectivity that you could punch in when you call into an automated phone system.
  - samstave 11y ago
    They just need a freaking "Round trip button"!! All it needs to do is take you back to where you started from based on where it last dropped you off.
coherentpony 11y ago
What? So every app update is a breaking change? That's awful software engineering practice.
- hellbanner 11y ago
  Unfortunately, this could be as much Apple's fault as Uber's.
  - todd3834 11y ago
    Could you explain how so?
    - hellbanner 11y ago
      iOS has a history of breaking the API with version updates. Sometimes it's such a PITA, large companies choose to remove their apps instead of upgrading them: https://toucharcade.com/2015/09/23/bioshock-removal-2k-support-response/ https://toucharcade.com/2015/09/23/bioshock-removal-2k-suppo...
  - themartorana 11y ago
    Only if Apple changes their requirements, like disallowing access to the UDID, but even then you have plenty of time (and such changes are requirements on future versions) so it's very doubtful Apple has anything to do with this.
- peterjmag 11y ago
  Agreed. I'm gonna hazard a guess and say that they do it in order to avoid the cost of supporting older versions of their internal APIs. Interesting contrast to Facebook's engineering team, who maintains mobile apps for at least two years after their release: Backwards Compatible: In a world of deployed native mobile applications with no forced upgrades, backwards compatibility is a challenge. Facebook, for example, releases apps on a two week fixed cycle and pledges to maintain those apps for at least two years. This means there are at a minimum 52 versions of our clients per platform querying our servers at any given time. Client-specified queries simplifies managing our backwards compatibility guarantees. via https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2015/05/01/graphql-introduction.html https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2015/05/01/graphql-int... I didn't know they had such a liberal backwards compatibility policy until I saw this GraphQL talk, which is a pretty interesting overview of why / how they do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQLzZf34FJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQLzZf34FJ8. Makes me wonder how much money / how many users Uber loses by not supporting older versions.
joelhaasnoot 11y ago
Interesting requirement. I work on a large app with a large install base that is not just early adopters: we use 6 month minimum window to phase out services.
ape4 11y ago
Its huge. Takes a couple minutes to start on my Android phone. Having Spotify in there is the very definition of bloatware.
BurningFrog 11y ago
Where can I verify this?
JoshTriplett 11y ago
You can use their mobile site instead: https://m.uber.com https://m.uber.com That also has the advantage of not requiring invasive app permissions.
- kpozin 11y ago
  The last few times I tried to use the mobile site, it gave an error message claiming that requesting a car via the site was not authorized (it had worked for a few months before that).
  - JoshTriplett 11y ago
    Send their support a mail or tweet. See the thread at https://twitter.com/josh_triplett/status/587614288686096384 https://twitter.com/josh_triplett/status/587614288686096384 .
wwweston 11y ago
Used to be you could actually book a trip using SMS -- I did it that way for almost a year before I ever used the app, and then they phased that out.
superuser2 11y ago
>Not everyone has the newest smartphone The latest version of the app supports Android 4.0.3 and up, as well as iOS 7 and up. >with tons of space The iOS app is 59MB. In 2015, you're claiming it's unreasonable to ask for a few megabytes? What? 8GB flash drives were party favors 5 years ago.
- BuildTheRobots 11y ago
  8gb flash drives might be party favours, but as phones no longer let you stick a memory card in and the latest greatest handsets (eg: nexus 5x) are still shipping with 16 or 32gb of storage, the 50mb isn't insignificant.
  - serge2k 11y ago
    Even if the OS uses 8GB of space you are talking about well under 1% of the leftover space. Sounds insignificant for something as important as transportation.
- kirk21 11y ago
  My phone is 2,5 years old and still works very well. Just has tons of bloatware (damn you HTC!). Might have to root the phone to uninstall that junk.
NelsonMinar 11y ago
My friend had to update his otherwise-fine iPhone because of Uber's disdain for backward compatibility. Admittedly it was an older model phone. But everything he cared about worked fine with it until Uber pushed a mandatory new version of the app that required a newer iOS than the phone could run. To Uber's credit they did have a useful support response with a pointer to the mobile website. Still seemed awfully awkward.

by kirk21 11y ago

Off topics but the fact that Uber requires you to have the latest version of its app to book rides is ridiculous. Not everyone has the newest smartphone with tons of space to update apps.

archildress 11y ago

I think if you're a driver, an up to date phone is a business expense. The latest version of the app doesn't require the latest phone - just enough space.

wavefunction 11y ago
Contract employees are supposed to be able to determine the tools they will use to complete their tasks, by law.
- tacos 11y ago
  As part of the independent contractor guidelines, they have to supply the tool (versus the employer buying it for them). But tools and equipment are commonly specified (even down to a specific tool model for insurance requirements or material brand for warranty requirements) as part of contracted labor.
- mahyarm 11y ago
  If the job requires certain certain strength tools, you need a good enough tool to complete it. Like digging soft dirt tools vs breaking up hard stone tools to dig a hole somewhere...
- archildress 11y ago
  And they are. Android versus iPhone, Nexus versus Galaxy, etc. If I hire someone to cut down a tree on contract, I can't dictate their tool of choice - only that it complies with what's necessary to complete the work. There are plenty of fair criticisms of Uber. This isn't one.

janesvilleseo 11y ago

Or maybe they are using it as a screening device for "better" drivers. I keep hearing that when Uber comes to a new city, the pay is pretty good so it attracts non-ESL speaking drivers. Maybe this is just a barrier to enter the marketplace to maintain those 'better' drivers. Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised.

JupiterMoon 11y ago
Or they could just pay their good employees better and then fire the poor ones. P.S. I know that they claim that their drivers are not employees but if it walks like an employee and talks like an employee it's an employee.
- mjcohen 11y ago
  Only if it gets paid like an employee.
- wavefunction 11y ago
  I made this point upthread but contractors are free to use whatever tools they like to accomplish their tasks, by law. Full-time employees are subject to using specified equipment by the employer.
  - rco8786 11y ago
    Not exactly how it works. Contractors can choose but it doesn't mean they can choose tools that don't do the job. If part f the job is storing backup data on a phone the tool needs to be a phone capable of storing backup data.
    - HappyTypist 11y ago
      The biggest argument I've seen for uber drivers being contractors is that they can work for competitors at the same time. Any employee would get fired pretty quickly.
- 11y ago

jimminy 11y ago

I actually got stuck out at Fort Mason one day during the Launch Conference last spring because of this issue. I used an Uber to get there, but when I went to leave the app required an update and I couldn't get a decent enough connection to download the update near the venue.

brazzledazzle 11y ago
They really should let you use the N-1 version at the very least. That should prevent these same day/trip issues.
- jimminy 11y ago
  I have a feeling they probably do. I hadn't updated in a week or two, just out of laziness to not check for updates everyday. So it's possible I had missed more than one update that caused the issue.
  - mahyarm 11y ago
    I heard the force-upgrade window is 3 months. To verify just deny updates until the app doesn't let you use the uber app anymore. It might also be necessary fixes pushing up the minimum version.
- amelius 11y ago
  They should just use a decent website (web-app), in my humble opinion.
  - jfoster 11y ago
    They have that: https://m.uber.com/ https://m.uber.com/
- Namrog84 11y ago
  It perhaps allow you to book 1 ride on an outdated version and warn you its the last one. Then lock account until you've updated so you don't get stranded like that 1 person

philippnagel 11y ago

It's very hard to maintain compatibility for different versions of mobile operating systems. API's, etc. change or break completely all the time. Often it is simply a trade-off between acquiring new, perhaps more affluent users, and loosing those with less money to spend and cheaper phones. The morality behind this is questionable off course.

jasonlotito 11y ago
And then you have people like in this comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10446977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10446977 > It's very hard to maintain compatibility for different versions of mobile operating systems. Except it's not. It requires thought, but the reality is, they aren't trying to maintain compatibility, they are merely saying "Nope, you have to have the latest and greatest or it won't work" regardless of whether it would work or not. If anything, this demonstrates that Uber itself is not concerned with quality. Considering my experiences with Uber in the past, this is not surprising.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  Quality is many faceted. One aspect that's relevant here is predictability and Uber chooses to meet their prescribed level of predictability by controlling the phone OS/version.
ryandrake 11y ago
Really? "It's very hard"? That's the explanation for such poor software engineering practices? I guess their engineers are only paid to solve easy problems.
- bitwize 11y ago
  The good software engineering practives of yesterday are for old people. Young people are just smarter. They move fast and break stuff. Makin' omelettes, man. Shhhyeah.
  - 11y ago

aristidb 11y ago

Parent got downvoted, but I think it's a legitimate concern: refusing people rides because for whatever reason (old phone, poor / expensive Internet connectivity) they can't update the app is problematic.

brazzledazzle 11y ago
It would be neat if they gave you a short list of temporary codes in the app that doesn't rely on connectivity that you could punch in when you call into an automated phone system.
- samstave 11y ago
  They just need a freaking "Round trip button"!! All it needs to do is take you back to where you started from based on where it last dropped you off.

coherentpony 11y ago

What? So every app update is a breaking change? That's awful software engineering practice.

hellbanner 11y ago
Unfortunately, this could be as much Apple's fault as Uber's.
- todd3834 11y ago
  Could you explain how so?
  - hellbanner 11y ago
    iOS has a history of breaking the API with version updates. Sometimes it's such a PITA, large companies choose to remove their apps instead of upgrading them: https://toucharcade.com/2015/09/23/bioshock-removal-2k-support-response/ https://toucharcade.com/2015/09/23/bioshock-removal-2k-suppo...
- themartorana 11y ago
  Only if Apple changes their requirements, like disallowing access to the UDID, but even then you have plenty of time (and such changes are requirements on future versions) so it's very doubtful Apple has anything to do with this.
peterjmag 11y ago
Agreed. I'm gonna hazard a guess and say that they do it in order to avoid the cost of supporting older versions of their internal APIs. Interesting contrast to Facebook's engineering team, who maintains mobile apps for at least two years after their release: Backwards Compatible: In a world of deployed native mobile applications with no forced upgrades, backwards compatibility is a challenge. Facebook, for example, releases apps on a two week fixed cycle and pledges to maintain those apps for at least two years. This means there are at a minimum 52 versions of our clients per platform querying our servers at any given time. Client-specified queries simplifies managing our backwards compatibility guarantees. via https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2015/05/01/graphql-introduction.html https://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2015/05/01/graphql-int... I didn't know they had such a liberal backwards compatibility policy until I saw this GraphQL talk, which is a pretty interesting overview of why / how they do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQLzZf34FJ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQLzZf34FJ8. Makes me wonder how much money / how many users Uber loses by not supporting older versions.

joelhaasnoot 11y ago

Interesting requirement. I work on a large app with a large install base that is not just early adopters: we use 6 month minimum window to phase out services.

ape4 11y ago

Its huge. Takes a couple minutes to start on my Android phone. Having Spotify in there is the very definition of bloatware.

BurningFrog 11y ago

Where can I verify this?

JoshTriplett 11y ago

You can use their mobile site instead: https://m.uber.com https://m.uber.com That also has the advantage of not requiring invasive app permissions.

kpozin 11y ago
The last few times I tried to use the mobile site, it gave an error message claiming that requesting a car via the site was not authorized (it had worked for a few months before that).
- JoshTriplett 11y ago
  Send their support a mail or tweet. See the thread at https://twitter.com/josh_triplett/status/587614288686096384 https://twitter.com/josh_triplett/status/587614288686096384 .

wwweston 11y ago

Used to be you could actually book a trip using SMS -- I did it that way for almost a year before I ever used the app, and then they phased that out.

superuser2 11y ago

>Not everyone has the newest smartphone The latest version of the app supports Android 4.0.3 and up, as well as iOS 7 and up. >with tons of space The iOS app is 59MB. In 2015, you're claiming it's unreasonable to ask for a few megabytes? What? 8GB flash drives were party favors 5 years ago.

BuildTheRobots 11y ago
8gb flash drives might be party favours, but as phones no longer let you stick a memory card in and the latest greatest handsets (eg: nexus 5x) are still shipping with 16 or 32gb of storage, the 50mb isn't insignificant.
- serge2k 11y ago
  Even if the OS uses 8GB of space you are talking about well under 1% of the leftover space. Sounds insignificant for something as important as transportation.
kirk21 11y ago
My phone is 2,5 years old and still works very well. Just has tons of bloatware (damn you HTC!). Might have to root the phone to uninstall that junk.

NelsonMinar 11y ago

My friend had to update his otherwise-fine iPhone because of Uber's disdain for backward compatibility. Admittedly it was an older model phone. But everything he cared about worked fine with it until Uber pushed a mandatory new version of the app that required a newer iOS than the phone could run. To Uber's credit they did have a useful support response with a pointer to the mobile website. Still seemed awfully awkward.