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My dad went from being an auto mechanic to learning to code when he was 63 and he's 77 now and argues with me about Drupal vs Joomla over dinner. It's only one

• marincounty 11y ago
  I'm not saying you do, but I have found the general public vastly underestimates the intelligence of many auto mechanics--especially today's mechanics. I guess they have always been an easy target in movies, etc.? I have a feeling your dad could learn anything if given the right structure. Mechanics are underpaid, expected to continually learn on their time, provide $20,000-30,000 grand worth of tools; and the owner is the only one making a real living.
  • deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  • iagooar 11y ago
    That's interesting. From what I experienced, in some of the European countries mechanics earn pretty darn good money, have pretty acceptable working conditions and are respected in general.
    • marincounty 11y ago
      My perspective is from the U.S. I would like to see them unionize. I sometimes think they could pull it off in the Bay Area, especially San Francisco.
      • kenbellows 11y ago
        Unionizing doesn't seem like it would work very well in an industry of which a significant portion is entrepreneurs with small 3-man shops and the like. Or were you thinking of just the big chain shops or those attached to large dealerships? In that case I think it might have a detrimental effect on the many small business shops.
      • kenbellows 11y ago
        Unionizing doesn't seem like it would work very well in an industry of which a significant portion is entrepreneurs with small 3-man shops and the like. Or were you thinking of just the big chain shops or those attached to large dealerships? In that case I think it might have a detrimental effect on the many small business shops.
  • mbritton72 11y ago
    The auto mechanics I've encountered are brilliant people. The next Nietzsche or Michelangelo will be an auto mechanic.
    • JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      And Einstein worked in a patent office.
      • mbritton72 11y ago
        Kafka was an insurance something-or-other...
        • auxym 11y ago
          Boris Vian was an engineer working for the AFNOR (french normalization body), which he found boring out of his mind. The first draft of L'Écume des Jours was written of AFNOR engineering graph paper.
        • 336f5 11y ago
          Looks like one'd describe him as an insurance adjuster: > Kafka was rapidly promoted and his duties included processing and investigating compensation claims, writing reports, and handling appeals from businessmen who thought their firms had been placed in too high a risk category, which cost them more in insurance premiums.[41] He would compile and compose the annual report on the insurance institute for the several years he worked there. And of course, Wallace Stevens was an insurance lawyer.
    • mgkimsal 11y ago
      It strikes me that most professions have extremes. There are developers, then there are developers. There are mechanics, then there are mechanics. etc. There some mechanics I know who are absolutely top-notch - they know their stuff, and have had a passion for it for years. Others I run in to at repair shops are really just... they have a job. That's it. They may stay, or move on to something else later, but they're just average. And I see that in a lot of developers (probably moreso, as I have a more critical eye for that). But I think it's probably that way in almost every profession - some are truly passionate, brilliant, dedicated, etc. And some folks just treat it as a job.
  • jghn 11y ago
    This will be unpopular here but the flipside of that is I think folks overestimate how mentally taxing "learn to code" really is. The large majority of programming tasks are pretty rote at this point, it's just all hidden behind a veneer of arcane wizardry.
    • tracker1 11y ago
      Learning to code really comes down to understanding algorithms (logic flows, and decision trees), a little bit of math, and the syntax in question. That's all you need to get something done for the most part. Getting good/great at programming means understanding more and abstract concepts in addition to features of the environment you are working in. Most programming tasks, once an initial project is started/templated out, can be done by someone that is effective, while not being a "great" programmer. It's a trade off.
  • mikestew 11y ago
    Once-upon-a-time-time auto mechanic, long time software dev here. It's not just the owner making a living, when I was active it was a decent middle-class living (25 years ago, could be different now). I'm talking professional, can diagnose your problem without throwing parts at it, owns a torque wrench and knows how to use it, not the vocational school students you find at Jiffy Lube. No one I knew was making BMW payments on their salary, but plenty had a nice house in a nice suburb, and a boat or other toy for the weekend. I would have been content to keep at it, but I like making software, too. It was fun, too; much like debugging code with your hands. Okay, what evidence do I have to work with? Of these several hypothesises, which are the most likely? And, just like code, sometimes you spend the afternoon going down what you thought was the right path only to find out you're wrong. As with software, there are hot shots that just seem wired for the task, and there are those that can merely competently do the job without screwing it up (and, like software, there are those few you don't want anywhere near your stuff). Just like software, I was one of those that fell in the middle. :-) Tell ya what though, unlike software, I had very few bad days as an auto mechanic. Decent money, I enjoyed the work, and when the weather was nice we open the bay doors and you're practically working outside. Rarely did anyone second-guess my decisions (and when they did, it was to make my job easier so I don't do it the hard way), and I rarely had to convince anyone of my estimates as we had a big book that already estimated how long a competent mechanic should take to do the job. One big difference is that incompetence is harder to hide as an auto mechanic. You're not going to be doing any copy-pasta from StackOverflow when you're an auto mechanic. Smart? Eh, like anything, it's hit or miss. Since the repair bays are right next to each other, and you don't have to expend a lot of cycles thinking through hash table algorithms, there's plenty of talking. Mechanics are a reflection of the general population, some guys (and they were all guys back then; girls worked up front behind the desk) I knew could probably write philosophy books, others probably won't be moving to Microsoft to write kernel code any time soon. In summary, the public underestimates the intelligence of just about everyone but themselves, so mechanics don't get a pass. Nor do the mechanics care about what you think, at least this one didn't. I was happy where I was at at the time, I didn't need anyone's approval. And the money was good.
    • ochoseis 11y ago
      > It was fun, too; much like debugging code with your hands. Okay, what evidence do I have to work with? Of these several hypothesises, which are the most likely? And, just like code, sometimes you spend the afternoon going down what you thought was the right path only to find out you're wrong. Reminds me of reading "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"
• chdir 11y ago
  > learning to code when he was 63 > switching careers extended his neural plasticity considerably I find this very interesting & uplifting. Would you be comfortable sharing more on what motivated him to switch careers at that age and your general observations throughout the process. I'm perhaps your age but I've experienced switching careers significantly is like hitting F5 in your life, or like a complete system re-install. Everything feels fresh & new. You feel energized to learn a lot of new concepts. However, it's usually very difficult to convince someone who's 60+ to learn to code. Usually people are intimidated by programming if they've only interacted with a browser for most of their lives.
  • goodJobWalrus 11y ago
    "Switching careers" also implies that he found a job as a programmer. I imagine it's really difficult to convince someone to employ someone who is 60+ and just learned to code.
    • tracker1 11y ago
      It depends, I've known of people to "break in" by offering to work the first week or two free, then negotiate. Generally you aren't going to work for a fortune 500 company as your first real job... but there's plenty of businesses that need someone to get work done, and can't afford market rates... Beyond that, the self-starter is often a safer bet than a fresh college grad.
    • xiaoma 11y ago
      There's a lot of prejudice along this axis and it's mostly acceptable in SV. Fortunately it's not universal!
    • kator 11y ago
      He is self-employed, all he had to do was hire himself. :-) I've spent the bulk of my life self-employed and he realized it wasn't as scary as it looks from the outside.
  • moonchrome 11y ago
    >is like hitting F5 in your life It starts your career in debug mode ?
• watchdogtimer 11y ago
  The primary skill required to be a good auto mechanic is the same one required to be a good software developer: the ability to logically diagnose and solve a problem. The only difference is the tools you use to fix the problem.
  • agumonkey 11y ago
    I've heard similar stories about a plumber, which said the former plumber actually found programming fairly easy. I laughed at the IT profession.
  • copperx 11y ago
    What's the difference then, between a software developer, a mechanic, and a doctor? Only one of them has a white collar job.
    • weinzierl 11y ago
      Serious question: Is a doctor really considered a blue collar worker?
      • tracker1 11y ago
        I think gp was refering to doctors being the white-collar of the three... and even with engineers they are not blue collar, mot legally at least... Exempt from overtime pay (salaried), no time and a half for OT hourly, etc. IT work is definitely white collar legally speaking.. even if considered at blue-collar by management types.
        • WildUtah 11y ago
          The responsibilities of a white collar job, the wages and respect of a blue collar job, and the number one target of mass skilled immigration to drive down wages. That's what you get when our profession is distinctive for the lack of social skills and interest in organizing to protect our own interests. The country is not getting more friendly to people who know how to do things but don't know how to win favor with the government.
• curiouslurker 11y ago
  Btw, one of the most brilliant engineers/architects I met a Microsoft, now a distinguished engineer at Amazon, started his career as an auto mechanic (he attended trade school for this). He is also the principal architect of IBM's DB2. His name is James RH. See this: (Why Amazon Hired a Car Mechanic to Run Its Cloud) http://www.wired.com/2013/02/james-hamilton-amazon/ http://www.wired.com/2013/02/james-hamilton-amazon/
  • pen2l 11y ago
    Wait, what. Am I correct getting this impression that what's being said is that auto mechanic work is somehow not "brain work"? Because for solving a lot of car problems it takes brains. If you're good at troubleshooting car problems, you will actually probably be good at programming.
    • wiremine 11y ago
      It's definitely brain work, but it is concrete, physical 3D space kind of thinking. Programming, and especially software architecture, tends to be more abstract thinking. FWIW, the Kolbe test methodology [1] has a good way of quantifying this sort of natural aptitude. 90% of programmers I know who have taken the test [2] are very good at abstract thinking, and not as good at the physical kind. [1] kolbe.com [2] Maybe 2 dozen programmers. So, not a huge sample, but enough to see a trend.
      • tetraodonpuffer 11y ago
        why would you think it's concrete thinking only? car mechanics seems basically the same as software debugging, yes, there is a bit of physical thinking when it's time to take parts out and put parts in, but if the car is not turning on you have to figure out in your mind the "algorithm" that is going on from the key turning to the engine working, and debug each step. There might be a bit of 3d thinking in figuring out how to, say, measure that in location X of the engine there is current Y, but it's not like you can figure out you have to check the current in that spot without having a clear mental picture of what is going on. Not to mention remembering that car model X tends to develop fault Y which sometimes causes observable behavior Z, which can be identified by checking A, B, C etc. etc. seems very similar to software engineering to me.
• racl101 11y ago
  That's a really cool example. I'm sure there aspects of being a mechanic that really helped him learn to code.
• quickpost 11y ago
  That's awesome. I hope I'm still learning new things when I'm 63 or 77!