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And that $20/month server also requires a $4000/month devop to maintain it. And adds to development time. And doesn't scale beyond ~1000 users online at a give

by TheDong 11y ago

And that $20/month server also requires a $4000/month devop to maintain it. And adds to development time. And doesn't scale beyond ~1000 users online at a given time. I managed to get steam achievements working in an hour of developing and zero servers. There's no way I could get that in two weeks of development time on a server. If you actually try making the sorta thing steam provides (all those things are distributed/scale, managed by other people, backed by support, etc) you'll find your costs instantly go higher than most indie games will make in their lifetime. And, well, the discovery bit is something you just can't replicate. However slick your site is, you won't reach steam users unless you're on steam, and steam has wholly won in this area.

Dylan16807 11y ago
Okay, $4000 of devops spread across how many games? And so many purchasers will never look at the forums, or the content stores, or the... These are nice little bonus features but they're nothing more than bonus features. If you offered me a tiny discount to not get them, I'd take it just about every time. It's not in the same ballpark as 30%. The discovery is critical but also way off in left field, because it's a network effect that causes itself. Steam could in theory have those network effects without actually providing direct services.
- TheDong 11y ago
  It hardly matters how many games really because 90+% of indie games aren't ever going to make more than $10k. However, those numbers were for one indie game with light usage. If you want your poor little server to support multiple games, you'll need a a few hundred $/mo more in servers, possibly a second devop, and massively more development time. Whether that stuff is worth it or not can very well be gauged by the fact that people pay for it. If it weren't worth it, people would sell on alternate platforms like their own website or what have you. You're stating your opinion as fact, but the numbers don't agree with you.
  - Dylan16807 11y ago
    Talking about linear scaling does not change the percentages. I'm not saying you could replace steam with a $20 server, I'm saying that you can run some forums and leaderboards for $20 per game. But that was just a number I threw out. How about looking at 5% of steam's 30% across roughly a billion sales, that is way way more than it would take to run some forums and leaderboards and cloud saves etc. - More importantly, I don't think you're following what my core point is. I'm not saying that steam is a bad deal. I'm saying that all those things mediumdeviation listed are pennies on the dollar of the value steam actually provides. If steam only gave that, everyone would go elsewhere rather than pay 30%. Steam's value is in people finding your game, paying for your game, and downloading your game. Very little else matters. So when Eevee says they charge 30% to be a gatekeeper? Yeah, that's a valid point. They have a minor feature list a mile long but it's nothing compared to the core feature of being a gatekeeper store.

by TheDong 11y ago

Dylan16807 11y ago

Okay, $4000 of devops spread across how many games? And so many purchasers will never look at the forums, or the content stores, or the... These are nice little bonus features but they're nothing more than bonus features. If you offered me a tiny discount to not get them, I'd take it just about every time. It's not in the same ballpark as 30%. The discovery is critical but also way off in left field, because it's a network effect that causes itself. Steam could in theory have those network effects without actually providing direct services.

TheDong 11y ago
It hardly matters how many games really because 90+% of indie games aren't ever going to make more than $10k. However, those numbers were for one indie game with light usage. If you want your poor little server to support multiple games, you'll need a a few hundred $/mo more in servers, possibly a second devop, and massively more development time. Whether that stuff is worth it or not can very well be gauged by the fact that people pay for it. If it weren't worth it, people would sell on alternate platforms like their own website or what have you. You're stating your opinion as fact, but the numbers don't agree with you.
- Dylan16807 11y ago
  Talking about linear scaling does not change the percentages. I'm not saying you could replace steam with a $20 server, I'm saying that you can run some forums and leaderboards for $20 per game. But that was just a number I threw out. How about looking at 5% of steam's 30% across roughly a billion sales, that is way way more than it would take to run some forums and leaderboards and cloud saves etc. - More importantly, I don't think you're following what my core point is. I'm not saying that steam is a bad deal. I'm saying that all those things mediumdeviation listed are pennies on the dollar of the value steam actually provides. If steam only gave that, everyone would go elsewhere rather than pay 30%. Steam's value is in people finding your game, paying for your game, and downloading your game. Very little else matters. So when Eevee says they charge 30% to be a gatekeeper? Yeah, that's a valid point. They have a minor feature list a mile long but it's nothing compared to the core feature of being a gatekeeper store.