4 ms·

I'll admit, it's a tad sexist, but it's still good for a laugh.

btilly 17y ago
It is hard to say anything true about relations between the sexes without being somewhat sexist. I think that's because nobody really likes the naked truth on that topic.
- joe_the_user 17y ago
  How would you back up that assertion? Is true to say "most relationships could be improved by both people listening better?" Is it sexist?
  - rw 17y ago
    What if they are not improved by doing that? What if women actually respond "better" to not being listened to? If that's (empirically) true, is that acceptable? I think the parents are asking how we can go about wrangling with gender roles, when maybe we're just programmed to be shitty to each other. It's not a secret that our social interactions are still hierarchical, as disgusting as that is.
  - DomesticMouse 17y ago
    I believe the question is sexist. Boys like talking about things, girls like talking about people. So the "listening better" actually becomes "understanding an alien mindset." I feel that this fact actually makes the above question sexist, because the two sexes involved interpret the action "listening" to mean two completely different things.
  - btilly 17y ago
    Here is a good example. Let me observe that both men and women don't just want to find someone of the opposite sex, they would like to be with someone who is as good as possible. When you are with a person who is as good as is possible for you to land, that person will be someone you have difficulty getting to be interested in you like you're interested in them. So, for instance, a man who dares say something moderately insulting to a woman early on establishes that he thinks that he could do better. If he does not offend her too badly and turns around and gives her some hope, that gives her the message that he's someone she has a chance at but has to work for. If she believes that message, she'll think of him as a good potential catch. Going the other way, a woman who doesn't feel compelled to return a man's calls promptly, puts off sex, and who insists from the start on time for herself is demonstrating that she believes she is a reach for him. If he believes her, then he is more likely to work to establish the relationship, including making the commitment to take care of her and help raise their children. (Which is what marriage is.) No man likes those games, but most of us respond to them. These parallel pieces of advice are both effective and offensive. You'll find the advice for men as part of the standard repertoire in virtually any guide for pickup artists. It is standard because experience shows that it helps get women in bed. Conversely the advice for women is straight from http://www.amazon.com/Rules-TM-Time-Tested-Secrets-Capturing/dp/0446518131/ref=pd_sim_b_3 http://www.amazon.com/Rules-TM-Time-Tested-Secrets-Capturing.... That is sort of a female counterpart to the pickup artists guide and is about how to land a man who will commit. The polarization of the reviews is evidence of both offensiveness and the gratitude of women who found the advice effective. (Read the reviews and you can verify the reasons for the votes.) So there is a concrete example for you. Landing someone of the opposite sex and getting them to do what we want them to do is of interest to the vast majority of us. (Yes, some people are gay or asexual, but the vast majority are straight heterosexuals.) Yet advice that is effective for that is quite offensive. And, of course, when we're offended by advice about the sexes, we usually call it sexist.
    - impeachgod 17y ago
      Now, the rules are just pure bullshit. That way leads to immorality. We just need to be good men and good women.
    - gaius 17y ago
      * That is sort of a female counterpart to the pickup artists guide and is about how to land a man who will commit.* It is not really, since "game" is not about relationships. The female equivalent of "game" is a push-up bra and control pants. Does it work? Absolutely. Will it get you what you want? Ultimately, probably not.
      - btilly 17y ago
        You are missing the important fact that in general men want sex and women want commitment. Thus the best female counterpart to a pickup artists guide is one that ends up with commitment, and not lots of sex.
        gaius 17y ago
        No, the male equivalent to "the rules" is having a steady job and wanting kids.
        yummyfajitas 17y ago
        The rules are essentially pretend to be someone you are not and don't reveal anything undesirable about yourself (children, prone to depression) until after a man is emotionally invested (that's Rule 13). The male equivalent to "the rules" is overspending to appear richer, lying about being divorced, and don't mention your vasectomy until after the wedding. Rule 23: Don't tell your therapist about the rules because (s)he will tell you you are being dishonest and manipulative, and then you'll die alone. (Yes, I read "The Rules", every guy should. Once you know the rules, you can downgrade rules girls from "girlfriend material" to "short term fun".)
    - dgabriel 17y ago
      Seriously, The Rules simply do not work if you're looking for a loving, equal partnership. It's all manipulation and games. Same with the "pua" approach. The vast majority of people do not behave this way toward partners or potential partners.
- antipaganda 17y ago
  Hehehe. Naked. (just demonstrating the average male response)

It is hard to say anything true about relations between the sexes without being somewhat sexist. I think that's because nobody really likes the naked truth on that topic.

joe_the_user 17y ago
How would you back up that assertion? Is true to say "most relationships could be improved by both people listening better?" Is it sexist?
- rw 17y ago
  What if they are not improved by doing that? What if women actually respond "better" to not being listened to? If that's (empirically) true, is that acceptable? I think the parents are asking how we can go about wrangling with gender roles, when maybe we're just programmed to be shitty to each other. It's not a secret that our social interactions are still hierarchical, as disgusting as that is.
- DomesticMouse 17y ago
  I believe the question is sexist. Boys like talking about things, girls like talking about people. So the "listening better" actually becomes "understanding an alien mindset." I feel that this fact actually makes the above question sexist, because the two sexes involved interpret the action "listening" to mean two completely different things.
- btilly 17y ago
  Here is a good example. Let me observe that both men and women don't just want to find someone of the opposite sex, they would like to be with someone who is as good as possible. When you are with a person who is as good as is possible for you to land, that person will be someone you have difficulty getting to be interested in you like you're interested in them. So, for instance, a man who dares say something moderately insulting to a woman early on establishes that he thinks that he could do better. If he does not offend her too badly and turns around and gives her some hope, that gives her the message that he's someone she has a chance at but has to work for. If she believes that message, she'll think of him as a good potential catch. Going the other way, a woman who doesn't feel compelled to return a man's calls promptly, puts off sex, and who insists from the start on time for herself is demonstrating that she believes she is a reach for him. If he believes her, then he is more likely to work to establish the relationship, including making the commitment to take care of her and help raise their children. (Which is what marriage is.) No man likes those games, but most of us respond to them. These parallel pieces of advice are both effective and offensive. You'll find the advice for men as part of the standard repertoire in virtually any guide for pickup artists. It is standard because experience shows that it helps get women in bed. Conversely the advice for women is straight from http://www.amazon.com/Rules-TM-Time-Tested-Secrets-Capturing/dp/0446518131/ref=pd_sim_b_3 http://www.amazon.com/Rules-TM-Time-Tested-Secrets-Capturing.... That is sort of a female counterpart to the pickup artists guide and is about how to land a man who will commit. The polarization of the reviews is evidence of both offensiveness and the gratitude of women who found the advice effective. (Read the reviews and you can verify the reasons for the votes.) So there is a concrete example for you. Landing someone of the opposite sex and getting them to do what we want them to do is of interest to the vast majority of us. (Yes, some people are gay or asexual, but the vast majority are straight heterosexuals.) Yet advice that is effective for that is quite offensive. And, of course, when we're offended by advice about the sexes, we usually call it sexist.
  - impeachgod 17y ago
    Now, the rules are just pure bullshit. That way leads to immorality. We just need to be good men and good women.
  - gaius 17y ago
    * That is sort of a female counterpart to the pickup artists guide and is about how to land a man who will commit.* It is not really, since "game" is not about relationships. The female equivalent of "game" is a push-up bra and control pants. Does it work? Absolutely. Will it get you what you want? Ultimately, probably not.
    - btilly 17y ago
      You are missing the important fact that in general men want sex and women want commitment. Thus the best female counterpart to a pickup artists guide is one that ends up with commitment, and not lots of sex.
      - gaius 17y ago
        No, the male equivalent to "the rules" is having a steady job and wanting kids.
        yummyfajitas 17y ago
        The rules are essentially pretend to be someone you are not and don't reveal anything undesirable about yourself (children, prone to depression) until after a man is emotionally invested (that's Rule 13). The male equivalent to "the rules" is overspending to appear richer, lying about being divorced, and don't mention your vasectomy until after the wedding. Rule 23: Don't tell your therapist about the rules because (s)he will tell you you are being dishonest and manipulative, and then you'll die alone. (Yes, I read "The Rules", every guy should. Once you know the rules, you can downgrade rules girls from "girlfriend material" to "short term fun".)
  - dgabriel 17y ago
    Seriously, The Rules simply do not work if you're looking for a loving, equal partnership. It's all manipulation and games. Same with the "pua" approach. The vast majority of people do not behave this way toward partners or potential partners.
antipaganda 17y ago
Hehehe. Naked. (just demonstrating the average male response)