6 ms·

So interesting to follow the chain unintended consequences. Trans fats make great muffins. But, oops, they happen to kill humans. So we ban them. Turns out

So interesting to follow the chain unintended consequences. Trans fats make great muffins. But, oops, they happen to kill humans. So we ban them. Turns out palm oil also makes great muffins and doesn't kill humans. So, we burn down the ecosystem in Indonesia to make more of those delicious muffins and contribute to global warming. Maybe we can just go back to using butter?

guelo 11y ago
Wrong. The biggest consumers of Palm Oil are China and India, and the main driving factor is price. Palm oil is cheap. It has nothing to do with the FDA's position on trans fat.
- aidenn0 11y ago
  Is it cheaper than rapeseed or soy? I know corn oil in the US is cheap, but it's also heavily subsidized.
  - guelo 11y ago
    Yes. http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=palm-oil&commodity=soybean-oil http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=palm-oil&co... http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=palm-oil&commodity=rapeseed-oil http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=palm-oil&co...
- nostromo 11y ago
  You're reading an American-centricity into my comment that wasn't there. The fact remains that palm oil consumption is growing world-wide, in no small part as a replacement for trans-fats. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v448/n7157/full/448993a.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v448/n7157/full/448993a... http://news.mongabay.com/2015/06/fda-bans-artificial-trans-fats-paving-way-for-more-u-s-palm-oil-consumption http://news.mongabay.com/2015/06/fda-bans-artificial-trans-f...
  - mikeyouse 11y ago
    Much of the palm oil crop is used as surfactants in the cleaning industry too... Some of the biggest users are the multinational cleaning conglomerates (P&G, Kao Corp., J&J, Unilever). The problem extends far beyond replacing trans fats.
  - guelo 11y ago
    Your links do not support your assertion that palm oil consumption has anything to do with trans fat replacement. The graph on the Mongobay site shows US Palm oil imports growing years before trans fat concerns became widespread.
lisper 11y ago
Except that cows are pretty environmentally-unfriendly too. Sigh. There is no getting around the elephant in the living room: population. Either we control it, or the laws of physics will do it for us.
- bostonpete 11y ago
  > Except that cows are pretty environmentally-unfriendly too. Well, you can milk anything with nipples.
  - alexggordon 11y ago
    I'd love to have an anatomy lesson on Almonds.
  - gxs 11y ago
    I am by no means a mod or a anything, but what exactly do you think you were contributing to this conversation with this comment? I am genuinely curious. Was it an attempt at humor? Did you think it would be well received in a forum where conversation tends to be more serious and informative? Are you aware of the rules and just don't care? Or did you think this comment was especially funny and warranted an exception? Not trying to troll, and I know I'm putting you on the spot so to speak, but figured if it would be worth it if you answered the question seriously. And yes, I am aware of the irony that my post isn't especially contributing either.
    - lmartel 11y ago
      It's a real contribution. The parent poster is (humorously) making the point that if we really wanted to, we could switch to e.g. goat's milk because farming cows is particularly damaging to the environment. I understand where the pearl-clutching is coming from but I think you've overreacted to the word "nipple."
    - bostonpete 11y ago
      > Did you think it would be well received in a forum where conversation tends to be more serious and informative? Yes, I guess I thought my light-hearted comment might be received the way it was intended. Even in a serious/informative setting it's OK to inject a little humor here or there. I really don't think HN is on the brink of devolving into pun threads if that's your concern. If people think a comment is an unwelcome addition to the conversation, downvotes will certainly get that point across. > Are you aware of the rules and just don't care? Yes, I'm familiar with the comment guidelines (which certainly don't ban humor) and I'm aware of the "unwritten" rule that HN will usually tolerate only a small amount of levity in comments.
cosarara97 11y ago
Butter is more expensive than burning down Indonesia. (Using certain definitions of expensive)
tomphoolery 11y ago
How about we figure out a way to make palm oil somewhere else? Is it really that hard?
- masklinn 11y ago
  Yes? Making any oil takes lots of room, palm is actually one of the most space-efficient productions (according to wikipedia it's 38% of the total vegetable oil production for 5% of the vegetable oil farmland), however it grows in tropical climates competing with existing old-growth native forests and the demand for it grows exponentially.
oneJob 11y ago
Cowspiracy

guelo 11y ago

Wrong. The biggest consumers of Palm Oil are China and India, and the main driving factor is price. Palm oil is cheap. It has nothing to do with the FDA's position on trans fat.

aidenn0 11y ago
Is it cheaper than rapeseed or soy? I know corn oil in the US is cheap, but it's also heavily subsidized.
- guelo 11y ago
  Yes. http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=palm-oil&commodity=soybean-oil http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=palm-oil&co... http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=palm-oil&commodity=rapeseed-oil http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=palm-oil&co...
nostromo 11y ago
You're reading an American-centricity into my comment that wasn't there. The fact remains that palm oil consumption is growing world-wide, in no small part as a replacement for trans-fats. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v448/n7157/full/448993a.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v448/n7157/full/448993a... http://news.mongabay.com/2015/06/fda-bans-artificial-trans-fats-paving-way-for-more-u-s-palm-oil-consumption http://news.mongabay.com/2015/06/fda-bans-artificial-trans-f...
- mikeyouse 11y ago
  Much of the palm oil crop is used as surfactants in the cleaning industry too... Some of the biggest users are the multinational cleaning conglomerates (P&G, Kao Corp., J&J, Unilever). The problem extends far beyond replacing trans fats.
- guelo 11y ago
  Your links do not support your assertion that palm oil consumption has anything to do with trans fat replacement. The graph on the Mongobay site shows US Palm oil imports growing years before trans fat concerns became widespread.

lisper 11y ago

Except that cows are pretty environmentally-unfriendly too. Sigh. There is no getting around the elephant in the living room: population. Either we control it, or the laws of physics will do it for us.

bostonpete 11y ago
> Except that cows are pretty environmentally-unfriendly too. Well, you can milk anything with nipples.
- alexggordon 11y ago
  I'd love to have an anatomy lesson on Almonds.
- gxs 11y ago
  I am by no means a mod or a anything, but what exactly do you think you were contributing to this conversation with this comment? I am genuinely curious. Was it an attempt at humor? Did you think it would be well received in a forum where conversation tends to be more serious and informative? Are you aware of the rules and just don't care? Or did you think this comment was especially funny and warranted an exception? Not trying to troll, and I know I'm putting you on the spot so to speak, but figured if it would be worth it if you answered the question seriously. And yes, I am aware of the irony that my post isn't especially contributing either.
  - lmartel 11y ago
    It's a real contribution. The parent poster is (humorously) making the point that if we really wanted to, we could switch to e.g. goat's milk because farming cows is particularly damaging to the environment. I understand where the pearl-clutching is coming from but I think you've overreacted to the word "nipple."
  - bostonpete 11y ago
    > Did you think it would be well received in a forum where conversation tends to be more serious and informative? Yes, I guess I thought my light-hearted comment might be received the way it was intended. Even in a serious/informative setting it's OK to inject a little humor here or there. I really don't think HN is on the brink of devolving into pun threads if that's your concern. If people think a comment is an unwelcome addition to the conversation, downvotes will certainly get that point across. > Are you aware of the rules and just don't care? Yes, I'm familiar with the comment guidelines (which certainly don't ban humor) and I'm aware of the "unwritten" rule that HN will usually tolerate only a small amount of levity in comments.

cosarara97 11y ago

Butter is more expensive than burning down Indonesia. (Using certain definitions of expensive)

tomphoolery 11y ago

How about we figure out a way to make palm oil somewhere else? Is it really that hard?

masklinn 11y ago
Yes? Making any oil takes lots of room, palm is actually one of the most space-efficient productions (according to wikipedia it's 38% of the total vegetable oil production for 5% of the vegetable oil farmland), however it grows in tropical climates competing with existing old-growth native forests and the demand for it grows exponentially.

oneJob 11y ago

Cowspiracy