7 ms·

"Americans live in a police state" Americans do not live in a police state. Not by any sane interpretation of the definition. That's just absurd nonsense.

by PlzSnow 11y ago

merpnderp 11y ago
Some people think living in a police state is where it is absurdly easy for the police to do their job. Like say being able to casually do an X-Ray scan of any car or vehicle they see.
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  Some people think lots of things. If you've ever been in an actual police state, you'd understand that New York isn't one.
  - LordKano 11y ago
    Try walking around New York after dark as an African American or Latino male and tell me again how it's not an actual police state.
  - angersock 11y ago
    s/actual/archaic You overlook what technology has opened up in terms of non-invasive surveillance.
  - merpnderp 11y ago
    "Police state is a term denoting government that exercises power arbitrarily through the police." Like say....stop and frisking "shady" people who've committed no crime? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state
beeboop 11y ago
Here's how Wikipedia describes a police state: >The inhabitants of a police state may experience restrictions on their mobility, or on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state. ~100% of American communications are monitored by the government. We have secret courts that authorize the killing of American citizens. We have National Security Letters, requiring people to do exactly as they're told and not allowing them to tell anyone (in some cases even their lawyer) they've been served with one. Government agencies operate outside the bounds of the constitution on a routine and mass basis (NSA's phone spying program was found to be illegal/unconstitutional) with zero repercussions to government employees and agents who violated the law. It also defines this: >An electronic police state is one in which the government aggressively uses electronic technologies to record, organize, search, and distribute forensic evidence against its citizens America is the poster child of an electronic police state. We do it more than any other country on a scale larger than any country in history. Americans are more monitored than any large group of people in the history of the world.
- PlzSnow 11y ago
  The number of respected social commentators who think America is a police state is essentially zero. If you believe America is a police state, then you are on the extreme-fringes of opinion. So you'd need extraordinary evidence to back your claim up.
  - beeboop 11y ago
    Social commentators employed by the same companies that give us garbage news, terrible reporting, and comically blatant bias at every opportunity. For a social commentator to speak out against the government on a major news outlet would be a ratings disaster. Most Americans either agree with the surveillance state, don't give a shit, or don't even know about it. American media outlets are tremendously political and it'd be political suicide to speak ill of those who essentially own you. I don't know how anyone can argue that the US doesn't fit the definition of an electronic police state as it was defined above. Your head would have to be very deep in the sand. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
    - johncolanduoni 11y ago
      I think he meant social commentators in academia/think tanks, not anchors at news stations. > For a social commentator to speak out against the government on a major news outlet would be a ratings disaster. What do you see them constantly doing when it comes to police brutality? And for the federal level, have you watched Fox News while we've had a Democrat president or MSNBC while we've had a Republican one? Gratuitously negative in both cases. There is certainly tons of bias at all the popular news outlets, but it's very different from the bias of state owned news agencies.
      - beeboop 11y ago
        The problem is that both sides of the political spectrum are in favor on the problems being discussed here. Very few congress members are against the NSA spy program/NSLs/secrete courts/etc. They will bash republicans for being pro-life, but they won't bash them for being pro-NSA (generally speaking). Also, even amonst the academics, the only ones that make it on air the vast majority of the time (and are placed in a positive context within the programming) are the ones conforming to what the media wants. Ask anyone who's ever been on "the list" for expert interviews on television. They call you up and say "would you be willing to go on air and defend this position?". If no, they hang up and try the next person. The opinions broadcasted on American television are as scripted as any other TV show. Through this process they create what the socially accepted norm is, and even if the majority disagree, they become the "fringe" because their opinions are not as well represented.

"Americans live in a police state" Americans do not live in a police state. Not by any sane interpretation of the definition. That's just absurd nonsense.

by PlzSnow 11y ago

"Americans live in a police state" Americans do not live in a police state. Not by any sane interpretation of the definition. That's just absurd nonsense.

merpnderp 11y ago

Some people think living in a police state is where it is absurdly easy for the police to do their job. Like say being able to casually do an X-Ray scan of any car or vehicle they see.

AnimalMuppet 11y ago
Some people think lots of things. If you've ever been in an actual police state, you'd understand that New York isn't one.
- LordKano 11y ago
  Try walking around New York after dark as an African American or Latino male and tell me again how it's not an actual police state.
- angersock 11y ago
  s/actual/archaic You overlook what technology has opened up in terms of non-invasive surveillance.
- merpnderp 11y ago
  "Police state is a term denoting government that exercises power arbitrarily through the police." Like say....stop and frisking "shady" people who've committed no crime? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state

beeboop 11y ago

Here's how Wikipedia describes a police state: >The inhabitants of a police state may experience restrictions on their mobility, or on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state. ~100% of American communications are monitored by the government. We have secret courts that authorize the killing of American citizens. We have National Security Letters, requiring people to do exactly as they're told and not allowing them to tell anyone (in some cases even their lawyer) they've been served with one. Government agencies operate outside the bounds of the constitution on a routine and mass basis (NSA's phone spying program was found to be illegal/unconstitutional) with zero repercussions to government employees and agents who violated the law. It also defines this: >An electronic police state is one in which the government aggressively uses electronic technologies to record, organize, search, and distribute forensic evidence against its citizens America is the poster child of an electronic police state. We do it more than any other country on a scale larger than any country in history. Americans are more monitored than any large group of people in the history of the world.

PlzSnow 11y ago
The number of respected social commentators who think America is a police state is essentially zero. If you believe America is a police state, then you are on the extreme-fringes of opinion. So you'd need extraordinary evidence to back your claim up.
- beeboop 11y ago
  Social commentators employed by the same companies that give us garbage news, terrible reporting, and comically blatant bias at every opportunity. For a social commentator to speak out against the government on a major news outlet would be a ratings disaster. Most Americans either agree with the surveillance state, don't give a shit, or don't even know about it. American media outlets are tremendously political and it'd be political suicide to speak ill of those who essentially own you. I don't know how anyone can argue that the US doesn't fit the definition of an electronic police state as it was defined above. Your head would have to be very deep in the sand. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
  - johncolanduoni 11y ago
    I think he meant social commentators in academia/think tanks, not anchors at news stations. > For a social commentator to speak out against the government on a major news outlet would be a ratings disaster. What do you see them constantly doing when it comes to police brutality? And for the federal level, have you watched Fox News while we've had a Democrat president or MSNBC while we've had a Republican one? Gratuitously negative in both cases. There is certainly tons of bias at all the popular news outlets, but it's very different from the bias of state owned news agencies.
    - beeboop 11y ago
      The problem is that both sides of the political spectrum are in favor on the problems being discussed here. Very few congress members are against the NSA spy program/NSLs/secrete courts/etc. They will bash republicans for being pro-life, but they won't bash them for being pro-NSA (generally speaking). Also, even amonst the academics, the only ones that make it on air the vast majority of the time (and are placed in a positive context within the programming) are the ones conforming to what the media wants. Ask anyone who's ever been on "the list" for expert interviews on television. They call you up and say "would you be willing to go on air and defend this position?". If no, they hang up and try the next person. The opinions broadcasted on American television are as scripted as any other TV show. Through this process they create what the socially accepted norm is, and even if the majority disagree, they become the "fringe" because their opinions are not as well represented.