7 ms·

A new visa that will allow UK tech startups to hire entire teams

55 points by bpolania 11y ago

peteretep 11y ago
Current visa requires evidence of: * Publications * Keynote speaker at global conference * Won or nominated for a recognized Tech award * Major Open Source project(s) maintained
- Peroni 11y ago
  Not quite. If any of the above exist, it can help with your application but none of the items you list are required.
  - winst0n 11y ago
    It still sounds very complicated. Doesn't the UK need talented people? Or are they getting enough from mainland Europe?
    - Peroni 11y ago
      It's a painstaking and time consuming process. There's a huge talent pool within the UK and mainland Europe however given the tech/start-up commonalities between the UK & US, it would make an enormous difference if the process of hiring from the US was simplified.
      - spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
        Just as long as it a quid pro quo the other way for green cards UK - USA.
lifeisstillgood 11y ago
Oh god, I am beginning to feel kinship with Donald Trump and Ron Paul - I want to tell my government to stop interfering. TechCityUK is a government quango?? I thought they were some kind of over-funded startup/charity. Give me small government or give me death. Oh no, I've been reading American comments on here too long. Edit: I was going to delete as not constructive, but genuinely this was a surprise, and not a good one. TechcityUK looks and feels like a well funded startup with great government connections but no business plan. I did kind of assume they were gov connected if only because they can do events with government ministers, but an actual funded quango just annoys me - they just got in the way the last time I visited (GDS/CCS roadshow, where the GDS staff and I just exchanged emails but I still somehow got on the TechcityUK mailing list - and hang on they keep trying to charge me - a lot - annually for the pleasure of funding them as a taxpayer. What kind of quango is this? Aaargh, pass me the shotgun Mabel, I'm gonna gits me a revenoo man.
- stuaxo 11y ago
  Yep, at the same time as useful stuff is continually being unfunded and privatised we get stuff like this.
- genmon 11y ago
  What are they trying to charge you for? I didn't know they had any non-free programmes, although I assume they do look for corporate sponsorship
  - lifeisstillgood 11y ago
    Well that would be it then - but it was sold as "joining" I just smiled and nodded.
    - genmon 11y ago
      That sounds more like TechUK, which afaik isn't government funded and is a membership based lobby group. They did a bunch of events together with GDS last year. Different from Tech City UK which is more like PR to help the UK, and free training/events for startups to help them grow. Unfortunate name collision... I'm happy to be corrected though! I've been slightly out of touch these last few months.
smackay 11y ago
"positive rebranding of the Exceptional Talent visa scheme" pretty much sums this up - spin on a lackluster program. Revolutionary - hardly. Want to do something revolutionary or at least something that might make a difference, pull in teams from under-developed countries, train them up by putting them in top tier companies specifically not as cheap labour (a mini-YCombinator for want of a better description), then let them go do their thing.
- eru 11y ago
  Or just auction of the visas to the highest bidders. Or let in anyone who surpasses the average native in education (or tax-paying power).
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    > Or just auction of the visas to the highest bidders. Yes, let's have money decide who gets or doesn't get into the country, who can and cannot get hired from abroad. Isn't legal bribery great... > Or let in anyone who surpasses the average native in education And how do you determine that?
    - aianus 11y ago
      > Yes, let's have money decide who gets or doesn't get into the country Yes, let's have money decide who gets or doesn't get food or shelter or medical care... oh wait. Snarkiness aside, rich people can already buy citizenship in most countries, even the U.S. It's by far the fairest and most objective system to decide who gets in or doesn't get in. It also has the positive side effect of selecting those least likely to mooch off the state (a popular fear amongst those against immigration).
      - scrollaway 11y ago
        > Yes, let's have money decide who gets or doesn't get food or shelter or medical care... oh wait. You mean human rights which are covered by the government for those who can't afford it?
kspaans 11y ago
I came to the UK from Canada to work in the software industry. My employer sponsored a Tier 2 General visa for me (cost me, and them, and took 1+ months). A friend of mine got into the UK under the "Youth Mobility Visa". His process was shorter and simpler, but AFAICT he can't renew his visa once it expires. I don't consider myself exceptionally talented so I don't think a Tier 1 would have been right for me, but I wonder how many software tech (as opposed to sciencey/businessey/researchey) people get into the UK with that visa?
- Peroni 11y ago
  Very few. Seven in total last year I believe. I hired an exceptional Data Scientist from Moscow for a London based startup on a Tier 2 visa. He had a PhD plus a number of years of commercial experience and was being offered an outstanding salary. Technically, he could have qualified for a Tier 1 visa but the process involved was a nightmare. It was genuinely easier to bring him in on a Tier 2.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
  Some commonwealth countries have special visas for younger people - its why you see so many Australian and NZ bar staff.
Peroni 11y ago
Any change to the current Tier 1 structure is a welcome change however, until they reveal the definitive qualification criteria, I won't be reading too much into this. The Tier 1 visa process in the UK is a logistical nightmare which is why only 7 of TechCity's allocation of 200 Tier 1 visas were utilised in the first place.
makeitsuckless 11y ago
As far as I can tell, that still makes it harder to get into the UK than many other countries in the EU.
- klipt 11y ago
  Yeah, the UK cannot deny entry to EU citizens, no matter how unskilled, so to make the number of immigrants more politically palatable, they're cracking down on non-EU citizens, no matter how skilled. Easiest way into the UK is probably to naturalize in some other EU country first. I wonder where is easiest? Germany, Belgium, Ireland?
  - venomsnake 11y ago
    With the migrant tide - don't count on it anywhere. Unless you go the really nasty ways - like arranged marriage (cultural ritual, don't ask, you can marry the girl with parents permission, and she has almost no say) with roma bride in eastern europe.
  - m-i-l 11y ago
    Portugal has a Golden Visa scheme, which "gives foreign investors who spend 500,000 euros on a property ... the right to live in Portugal ... They are also free to travel around all the EU countries ... and after six years they can apply for Portuguese citizenship" according to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26636829 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26636829 .
  - DrJokepu 11y ago
    In fact, if you're a non-EU national, the easiest way to get into the UK is to marry (or be in a civil partnership or in a long-term relationship with) a (non-British) EU national. The paperwork is simple, cheap, and although it's not exactly fast you get a temporary certificate within a week or so.
  - djhn 11y ago
    Some of the highly English-speaking countries, like the Nordics, might be a good option. Better act fast though, before the UK "brexits" the EU. I have no idea how difficult it would be for people(/me) to keep their(/my) address and company in the UK in that scenario.
mlamat 11y ago
Can the team leave the employer for another one, or is this another case of indentured servitude with a funny name?
- Peroni 11y ago
  Technically, yes however employer 2 would still need to jump through significant hoops as the individual visas would still need to be transferred. It's easier but not easy.
andy_ppp 11y ago
I'm not sure why the article focuses on hiring people from Silicon Valley... Mostly people hire externally to the UK to reduce wages but in CA wages are roughly double what they are in London, let alone the rest of the U.K.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  We hire outside of the UK to have as broad a talent pool as possible. People cost what they cost. What this article is actually about is tier ii visas being gutted to pander to the right wing anti-immigration lobby. Tech employees are jumping ship from this country left right and centre already - the EU is important both as a hiring pool and a market, and when the UK leaves, so will a big chunk of the tech industry.
  - sjclemmy 11y ago
    > ..when the UK leaves... Really? You feel that strongly that the people of the UK will vote to leave? Whilst there is vocal support for leaving, there are also a lot of level headed people who understand the benefits of being part of the EU.
    - dijit 11y ago
      I'm British, and while most people who are clued up on what the EU does for Britain do not want to leave; other people do not have the time in their life to make an informed opinion and must rely on what friends/family say. Because the media is manipulated completely, this causes a few people to just 'take' the information from the media and think it's close to real, and those people spread the same message forward, making it more respectable to believe in until you fill up minds of 90% of the people. so, 90% of people believe the EU community is 'the big bad' who 'steals all the money' and imposes stuff on us. and there's no way to change that really.
      - mollmerx 11y ago
        I have a hunch that this may play out in a similar way the Scottish Independence Referendum did last year. It is in the interest of business and the elite to stay in, while there is significant popular opinion and some small businesses that want out. If in the run up to the actual vote things are looking close, as they did in Scotland, the side campaigning to stay in will wheel out the big shots (former PMs, captains of industry etc.) and throw money at the problem - resulting, I suspect, in a narrow win to stay in. Right now we don't even have a date for the referendum, so it's too early to be expending resources like that.
noja 11y ago
Good to see they are finally addressing the root cause of the problem.
spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
If you aquihire the team you can you do it as an intra company transfer?
- Peroni 11y ago
  You still need a visa. It's slightly easier but then you assume that aquihiring is straightforward, which it isn't.

55 points by bpolania 11y ago

Current visa requires evidence of: * Publications * Keynote speaker at global conference * Won or nominated for a recognized Tech award * Major Open Source project(s) maintained

Peroni 11y ago
Not quite. If any of the above exist, it can help with your application but none of the items you list are required.
- winst0n 11y ago
  It still sounds very complicated. Doesn't the UK need talented people? Or are they getting enough from mainland Europe?
  - Peroni 11y ago
    It's a painstaking and time consuming process. There's a huge talent pool within the UK and mainland Europe however given the tech/start-up commonalities between the UK & US, it would make an enormous difference if the process of hiring from the US was simplified.
    - spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
      Just as long as it a quid pro quo the other way for green cards UK - USA.

lifeisstillgood 11y ago

Oh god, I am beginning to feel kinship with Donald Trump and Ron Paul - I want to tell my government to stop interfering. TechCityUK is a government quango?? I thought they were some kind of over-funded startup/charity. Give me small government or give me death. Oh no, I've been reading American comments on here too long. Edit: I was going to delete as not constructive, but genuinely this was a surprise, and not a good one. TechcityUK looks and feels like a well funded startup with great government connections but no business plan. I did kind of assume they were gov connected if only because they can do events with government ministers, but an actual funded quango just annoys me - they just got in the way the last time I visited (GDS/CCS roadshow, where the GDS staff and I just exchanged emails but I still somehow got on the TechcityUK mailing list - and hang on they keep trying to charge me - a lot - annually for the pleasure of funding them as a taxpayer. What kind of quango is this? Aaargh, pass me the shotgun Mabel, I'm gonna gits me a revenoo man.

stuaxo 11y ago
Yep, at the same time as useful stuff is continually being unfunded and privatised we get stuff like this.
genmon 11y ago
What are they trying to charge you for? I didn't know they had any non-free programmes, although I assume they do look for corporate sponsorship
- lifeisstillgood 11y ago
  Well that would be it then - but it was sold as "joining" I just smiled and nodded.
  - genmon 11y ago
    That sounds more like TechUK, which afaik isn't government funded and is a membership based lobby group. They did a bunch of events together with GDS last year. Different from Tech City UK which is more like PR to help the UK, and free training/events for startups to help them grow. Unfortunate name collision... I'm happy to be corrected though! I've been slightly out of touch these last few months.

smackay 11y ago

"positive rebranding of the Exceptional Talent visa scheme" pretty much sums this up - spin on a lackluster program. Revolutionary - hardly. Want to do something revolutionary or at least something that might make a difference, pull in teams from under-developed countries, train them up by putting them in top tier companies specifically not as cheap labour (a mini-YCombinator for want of a better description), then let them go do their thing.

eru 11y ago
Or just auction of the visas to the highest bidders. Or let in anyone who surpasses the average native in education (or tax-paying power).
- scrollaway 11y ago
  > Or just auction of the visas to the highest bidders. Yes, let's have money decide who gets or doesn't get into the country, who can and cannot get hired from abroad. Isn't legal bribery great... > Or let in anyone who surpasses the average native in education And how do you determine that?
  - aianus 11y ago
    > Yes, let's have money decide who gets or doesn't get into the country Yes, let's have money decide who gets or doesn't get food or shelter or medical care... oh wait. Snarkiness aside, rich people can already buy citizenship in most countries, even the U.S. It's by far the fairest and most objective system to decide who gets in or doesn't get in. It also has the positive side effect of selecting those least likely to mooch off the state (a popular fear amongst those against immigration).
    - scrollaway 11y ago
      > Yes, let's have money decide who gets or doesn't get food or shelter or medical care... oh wait. You mean human rights which are covered by the government for those who can't afford it?

kspaans 11y ago

I came to the UK from Canada to work in the software industry. My employer sponsored a Tier 2 General visa for me (cost me, and them, and took 1+ months). A friend of mine got into the UK under the "Youth Mobility Visa". His process was shorter and simpler, but AFAICT he can't renew his visa once it expires. I don't consider myself exceptionally talented so I don't think a Tier 1 would have been right for me, but I wonder how many software tech (as opposed to sciencey/businessey/researchey) people get into the UK with that visa?

Peroni 11y ago
Very few. Seven in total last year I believe. I hired an exceptional Data Scientist from Moscow for a London based startup on a Tier 2 visa. He had a PhD plus a number of years of commercial experience and was being offered an outstanding salary. Technically, he could have qualified for a Tier 1 visa but the process involved was a nightmare. It was genuinely easier to bring him in on a Tier 2.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
Some commonwealth countries have special visas for younger people - its why you see so many Australian and NZ bar staff.

Peroni 11y ago

Any change to the current Tier 1 structure is a welcome change however, until they reveal the definitive qualification criteria, I won't be reading too much into this. The Tier 1 visa process in the UK is a logistical nightmare which is why only 7 of TechCity's allocation of 200 Tier 1 visas were utilised in the first place.

makeitsuckless 11y ago

As far as I can tell, that still makes it harder to get into the UK than many other countries in the EU.

klipt 11y ago
Yeah, the UK cannot deny entry to EU citizens, no matter how unskilled, so to make the number of immigrants more politically palatable, they're cracking down on non-EU citizens, no matter how skilled. Easiest way into the UK is probably to naturalize in some other EU country first. I wonder where is easiest? Germany, Belgium, Ireland?
- venomsnake 11y ago
  With the migrant tide - don't count on it anywhere. Unless you go the really nasty ways - like arranged marriage (cultural ritual, don't ask, you can marry the girl with parents permission, and she has almost no say) with roma bride in eastern europe.
- m-i-l 11y ago
  Portugal has a Golden Visa scheme, which "gives foreign investors who spend 500,000 euros on a property ... the right to live in Portugal ... They are also free to travel around all the EU countries ... and after six years they can apply for Portuguese citizenship" according to http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26636829 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26636829 .
- DrJokepu 11y ago
  In fact, if you're a non-EU national, the easiest way to get into the UK is to marry (or be in a civil partnership or in a long-term relationship with) a (non-British) EU national. The paperwork is simple, cheap, and although it's not exactly fast you get a temporary certificate within a week or so.
- djhn 11y ago
  Some of the highly English-speaking countries, like the Nordics, might be a good option. Better act fast though, before the UK "brexits" the EU. I have no idea how difficult it would be for people(/me) to keep their(/my) address and company in the UK in that scenario.

mlamat 11y ago

Can the team leave the employer for another one, or is this another case of indentured servitude with a funny name?

Peroni 11y ago
Technically, yes however employer 2 would still need to jump through significant hoops as the individual visas would still need to be transferred. It's easier but not easy.

andy_ppp 11y ago

I'm not sure why the article focuses on hiring people from Silicon Valley... Mostly people hire externally to the UK to reduce wages but in CA wages are roughly double what they are in London, let alone the rest of the U.K.

madaxe_again 11y ago
We hire outside of the UK to have as broad a talent pool as possible. People cost what they cost. What this article is actually about is tier ii visas being gutted to pander to the right wing anti-immigration lobby. Tech employees are jumping ship from this country left right and centre already - the EU is important both as a hiring pool and a market, and when the UK leaves, so will a big chunk of the tech industry.
- sjclemmy 11y ago
  > ..when the UK leaves... Really? You feel that strongly that the people of the UK will vote to leave? Whilst there is vocal support for leaving, there are also a lot of level headed people who understand the benefits of being part of the EU.
  - dijit 11y ago
    I'm British, and while most people who are clued up on what the EU does for Britain do not want to leave; other people do not have the time in their life to make an informed opinion and must rely on what friends/family say. Because the media is manipulated completely, this causes a few people to just 'take' the information from the media and think it's close to real, and those people spread the same message forward, making it more respectable to believe in until you fill up minds of 90% of the people. so, 90% of people believe the EU community is 'the big bad' who 'steals all the money' and imposes stuff on us. and there's no way to change that really.
    - mollmerx 11y ago
      I have a hunch that this may play out in a similar way the Scottish Independence Referendum did last year. It is in the interest of business and the elite to stay in, while there is significant popular opinion and some small businesses that want out. If in the run up to the actual vote things are looking close, as they did in Scotland, the side campaigning to stay in will wheel out the big shots (former PMs, captains of industry etc.) and throw money at the problem - resulting, I suspect, in a narrow win to stay in. Right now we don't even have a date for the referendum, so it's too early to be expending resources like that.

noja 11y ago

Good to see they are finally addressing the root cause of the problem.

spacecowboy_lon 11y ago

If you aquihire the team you can you do it as an intra company transfer?

Peroni 11y ago
You still need a visa. It's slightly easier but then you assume that aquihiring is straightforward, which it isn't.