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Graffiti on ‘Homeland,’ Unnoticed by Producers, Calls Show Racist
- Archio 11y agoI haven't seen Homeland past the first season - but can someone who has seen more shed light on the alleged "racism" of the show? Is the show actually racist in its depiction of Arab-speaking characters, or is this simply a manifestation of Hanlon's Razor - "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"?
- drzaiusapelord 11y agoWell, the show depicts largely terrorists and criminals. Activists apparently want long diatribes about how wonderful Arab and Muslim families are to "balance" it out. Homeland isn't a documentary. Its a dramatic show about national security and as such it will probably not paint a realistic picture of the average Muslim, because average Muslims aren't really what its supposed to portray. The same way professional wresting doesn't portray the average man's body or reality tv about wealthy people doesn't portray the average person's lifestyle.
- hackuser 11y ago> Homeland isn't a documentary ... True, but I don't feel it's not enough for Homeland's producers, or anyone, to say 'it's not our problem'. We all live in a community and are responsible for taking care of it and for the consequences of what we do. "No man is an island." People absorb their views of the world from TV, in part. With widespread prejudice against people who believe in Islam, portraying stereotypes of that prejudice worsens a dangerous situation. Many, many very bad things in history have resulted and are resulting from that kind of prejudice. It's similar to portraying all black skinned people on TV as drug dealers; many people, seeing only stereotypes, come to believe them.
- dalke 11y agoFor an example of how the fake TV world can be used to justify real world beliefs: http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/06/20/justice-scalia-hearts-jack-bauer/ http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2007/06/20/justice-scalia-hearts-ja... > The Globe and Mail reported that Scalia came to the defense of Jack Bauer and his torture tactics during an Ottawa conference of international jurists and national security officials last week. During a panel discussion about terrorism, torture and the law, a Canadian judge remarked, “Thankfully, security agencies in all our countries do not subscribe to the mantra ‘What would Jack Bauer do?’ ” > Justice Scalia responded with a defense of Agent Bauer, arguing that law enforcement officials deserve latitude in times of great crisis. “Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles . . . . He saved hundreds of thousands of lives,” Judge Scalia reportedly said. “Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?” He then posed a series of questions to his fellow judges: “Say that criminal law is against him? ‘You have the right to a jury trial?’ Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer?” > “I don’t think so,” Scalia reportedly answered himself. “So the question is really whether we believe in these absolutes. And ought we believe in these absolutes.”
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- dalke 11y ago"it's just a way of relating" Yes, I believe that it my point. By creating constructs like Bauer, the underlying topic that torture is justifiable became easier to relate to. Thus, it's not correct to absolve the creators of those shows simply, as drzaiusapelord did, because 'Its a dramatic show'. I have no idea what your last line means.
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- justizin 11y agoYou do know that the CFAA was authored in response to the fictional threats depicted in, "War Games", right?
- Retra 11y agoThere's no such thing as an average person.
- zhemao 11y agoWell, it apparently can't even depict terrorists correctly, because suggesting that Al Qaeda and Hezbollah would ever work together is just ludicrous. And I can totally see why Lebanese would be pissed off at seeing Hamra street completely misrepresented in that way. And even if the show isn't supposed to depict "average Muslims", do you really think all the viewers of the show will get that nuance? If all of the Arab/Iranian/Pakistani characters in the show (and the show doesn't seem to make much a distinction) are painted with a broad brush, that sends a certain kind of message to viewers.
- briandear 11y agoMight we also criticize the portrayal of Jews in Palestinian kids cartoons? I am not certain there are many Muslims complaining about those portrayals.
- hyperpape 11y agoAlso implies "and", whereas you seem to mean "instead".
- pessimizer 11y agoOr the portrayal of Minnesotans in Fargo. I'm not sure that you're required to talk about every portrayal everywhere before complaining about any specific portrayal, though, so it's probably irrelevant.
- chris_wot 11y agoWell, yes! But you've not negated the points being made, you've merely shown that ignorance is bad no matter where or who portrays it.
- merpnderp 11y agoSome of the Arab/Iranian/Pakistani characters are critical members of the portrayed CIA team.
- chipotle_coyote 11y agoMaybe the activists just want the show to put the relatively minimal effort into getting basic facts right, which the linked article gives several examples of them failing to do. If I write a novel set in a neighborhood in present-day Detroit, and I describe it looking like downtown Palo Alto and say the economic hard times there were caused by everyone losing their jobs at the local salmon fisheries, I doubt I could deploy "but it's fiction!" as a Get Out Of Criticism Free card.
- huac 11y agoEasier to read the linked articles. https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/10/02/homeland-is-the-most-bigoted-show-on-television/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/10/02/... http://www.hebaamin.com/arabian-street-artists-bomb-homeland-why-we-hacked-an-award-winning-series/ http://www.hebaamin.com/arabian-street-artists-bomb-homeland...
- ethbro 11y agoLet's just sum it up and say it's "24 with more intelligence community office politics."
- jacobr 11y agoWould it matter though? For how long is "ignorance" an excuse for one of the biggest TV shows ever?
- gizmo 11y agoHomeland is not intentionally racist, but that isn't the main concern. Homeland leans on lazy stereotypes way too much, and that's harmful regardless of intent. This opinion piece from last year has details: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/10/02/homeland-is-the-most-bigoted-show-on-television/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/10/02/...
- Retra 11y agoIndeed. I haven't seem very much of the show, but I found its depiction of the military and suburban lifestyle to be nauseating and trite. I can't imagine they'd do any better depicting foreign cultures.
- Lawtonfogle 11y ago>Homeland is not intentionally racist Isn't strongly leaning on lazy stereotypes a form of intentional racism? It may not be with malice, but it is an intentional choice to use those lazy stereotypes.
- lifeformed 11y agoA racist TV show does the same damage regardless of whether the creators were ignorant or malicious. Wide reaching mediums like TV shows have a lot of power in influencing our culture. Media creators have a lot of responsibility.
- rndn 11y ago'The series dangerously feeds into the racism of the hysterical moment we find ourselves in today.'
- wmil 11y agoThe writers can't keep up the quality as they write the season. They're rushed for the later episodes. So characters start out as nuanced and then become more one dimensional towards the end of the season. Also they need to deliver twists and shocks. So it's not exactly stupidity but it's not really intentional either.
- e15ctr0n 11y agoThe main writer of Homeland died unexpectedly in 2013 [1]. The new writers are clueless. That's why the show has lost its nuance and most of its discerning audience. [1] http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/homeland-writer-producer-henry-bromell-429701 http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/homeland-writer-produc...
- paganel 11y agoOh, so that explains it. IMHO the first season was really great, one of the most subversive shows aired on TV in the last 15 years. I know the word "subversive" gets thrown a lot in many discussions lately, but the first season certainly deserved it (warning: spoilers for season 1 following), I mean, we've got an American war hero praying to Allah, getting elected as a congressman while conspiring to kill the Vice-President and only at the last second deciding not to do it, and not because he believed in America or western values, whatever that means, but because of his kids. Plus the entire higher echelons of the CIA getting bombed off to pieces at the end, you don't see that in many shows/movies.
- gotchange 11y agoA minor correction, Arabic is the language while Arab is the ethnicity.
- aikah 11y agoBrown person here, I find Homeland stupid but not racist, let's cut the crap. Some Muslims do more damage to the Muslim community than a single show that paint a few Muslims as terrorists. Even 24 which was deemed controversial wouldn't qualify as racist in my book. They somehow managed to show that terrorists were manipulated by some higher interests , and were no more than "useful idiots". But it never painted the whole Muslim community as terrorist , nor does Homeland. It's always more about US policies and its consequences than anything else. If we put the "racist" label on everything a little bit controversial then the word itself becomes void of any meaning.
- danans 11y agoI don't know about racist, but the show is quite dishonest in its depiction of an alliance between the Iranian government and Al-Qaeda, when in the real world the link is between Al-Qaeda, ISIS, and their respective sponsors in the Gulf Arab states (Saudi Arabia, etc.) I enjoyed watching the show until they dropped that plot twist, then I rolled my eyes and quit. It's concerning because viewers who are less informed about the actual alignment of powers in the middle east may take the show's plot line as being inspired by reality, when it's fact it's far from it.
- draw_down 11y agoRacism is stupidity. Hanlon's Razor says nothing about the kind of stupidity in play.
- ianphughes 11y agoFunny but also a great non-violent form of protest. However, the article could have also been titled 'Unnoticed by Vast Majority of Viewers'.
- ingsoc79 11y agoNever knew you could be "racist" against a religion. I get it though, take a powerful word with negative connotations and use it to put your target on the defensive, no matter how tangential the connection. Kind of like being called a "commie" in the 20th century.
- meatysnapper 11y agoWhat if the race is synonymous with a religion- Judaism and Jews being the obvious example?
- vezzy-fnord 11y agoExcept it isn't. There's a clear distinction between Jews as an ethnic group and Judaism the religion. Hence frequent criticism of and among various Jewish movements without it being anti-Semitic.
- _ak 11y agoNot really. You're considered a Jew by other Jews if at least one of your parents is Jewish (your mother in most sects, your father in a few other sects). That's very tribalistic. So, what's the common communal identifier of Jews? Jewish culture, and interwoven with that, Judaism. You can't separate the religious from the cultural component of that communal identity, and you can't separate Jewish culture from Jewish people. This also shows in how Israel regulates its immigration: both people with ethnically Jewish roots (at least one of your grandparents) and people of Jewish belief where ethnic roots hadn't been established at that time (biggest example: Ethiopian Jews) are accepted and granted citizenship. Conversion of people to Judaism are relatively rare, and are really a more recent phenomenon. Jews don't proselytize and often discourage conversion. Samaritans, the "sister" religion of Judaism (both derive from the Israelites from before the destruction of the first temple), are similar but even more extreme in that. How more tribalistic than that can you get?
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
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- adultSwim 11y agolol
- usaphp 11y agoI thought "Saul" can speak Arabic and has Arabic wife, it's funny how they are portraiting a whole culture without having a single person on a show who has a relation to that culture or at least speak their language...Hollywood
- mtgx 11y agoI hope next they protest how much of a propaganda tool for the U.S. government this show is - a cake for drone striking someone? Really?
- veeti 11y agoIn the same episode, a drone strike kills tens of innocent people. If you think that is "propaganda", you obviously weren't paying any attention.
- elif 11y agoI won't attempt to address this show which I haven't seen, but in general, propaganda can function to normalize or justify the obscene. Through presenting two sides of an issue, it gives the illusion of honesty or fairness. Even if that strike was represented as a complete mistake with no justification, it has normalized drone strikes simply by exposing them as a thing you witness in sympathy from the comfort of your sofa.
- merpnderp 11y agoThere was nothing normalizing about their depiction. Most of the aftermath is showing a father's response to his dead young child. If anything it reinforces how horrific drone strikes on civilians are.
- Udik 11y agoBut it also reinforces the idea that this, tragedy included, is the new normal. Showing the desperation of the victims, might also reassure you of the fact that you care about them (while in reality things like these happen every day without you even reading it in the news). Finally, when you register that the ugly sides are taken in consideration, as you just did: > In the same episode, a drone strike kills tens of innocent people. If you think that is "propaganda", you obviously weren't paying any attention. your trust in the rest of the details of the episode and the series is enhanced. While they could be totally random, you have no clue about that.
- unknownzero 11y agoThis is the best hack I've seen on Hacker News in months and it doesn't even involve a computer. Great job to everyone involved in pulling it off, even if the casual viewers didn't notice.
- Apocryphon 11y agoNow that I think about it, this is pretty much social engineering. One can imagine exploiting cultural ignorances and biases similarly as part of an electronic hack.
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- curiousjorge 11y agonah this was the best hack and it preceded Hacker News for decades https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWdgAMYjYSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWdgAMYjYSs
- vijayr 11y agoI am conflicted - on one hand it is a great hack, no doubt. But they also screwed over the producers, who trusted them and paid them for their work.
- rmxt 11y agoI'd venture to say this was a pretty calculated move -- no doubt they might not get work with this production company anymore, but they'll surely have quite a few more jobs lined up now with their name out there like this. Also, those jobs might be on projects that more closely align with their political and artistic goals and visions.
- gotchange 11y agoAssuming of course that they knew for certain that they would get away with it and no one would notice it before it hit the airwaves. It's a risky proposition and not guaranteed to work most of the time.
- Apocryphon 11y agoMeta: Does this act count as culture jamming? And if so, does culture jamming count as hacking? Because if so, I foresee the possibility of more links on HN about Banksy, or whomever is the Banksy of the moment, and others who find ways to disrupt establishment norms.
- vezzy-fnord 11y agoA synonym for culture jamming is "reality hacking," so I think it might qualify. If you read many of the antics documented in compendiums like sniggle.net, they can be remarkably crafty and intricate, so I think they would count. Particularly someone like Dick Tuck is doubtlessly a hacker.
- johnchristopher 11y ago« culture jamming » ? « reality hacking » ? This is plain and simple activism (or sabotage, it depends whose side you are on). No need for fancy words and one-item-categories.
- monatron 11y agoclever. I'm curious if the group cashed the check from the producers for their "services" or if that's also just part of the statement they're making.
- unknownzero 11y agoI would imagine they did: "Ms. Amin said she and her colleagues had been hired by the show’s producers to add authenticity to the camp depicted in the episode". From my perspective this definitely adds authenticity, seems like the service was provided, if in a snarky manner. However I doubt they receive future work from the show :P
- kelvin0 11y agoCuriously though I always thought the show portrayed the US protagonists in a less than flattering light. I can't speak of the biggottery the 'hackers' mention ... but clearly (to me at least) the decisions made by the agents are very nuanced and show some disturbing disregard for the impact of their actions and the short-sightedness of their attacks.
- smt88 11y agoI think "nuanced" is the key there. Also, when you're portraying a minority, the effect of your work will be different. If you live in the US, chances are excellent that you know a variety of white people well. Some are good, some are bad. Chances are much worse that you know Muslims or Middle Eastern immigrants well. Muslims are one of the most discriminated against minorities in the US, and there's some shocking witch-hunt-esque rhetoric coming from the conservative right that makes it even more problematic. I'm not saying that a TV show is responsible for righting society's wrongs (or even contradicting stereotypes), but they can certainly make small narrative tweaks to portray people as people, rather than flat stereotypes. It makes the show better, too.
- briandear 11y agoInteresting because Christians are among the most discriminated against groups in the Middle East. Pot, meet kettle.
- rmxt 11y agoYes, because Western media conglomerates should operate using the same tactics that media companies in the Islamosphere use. /s Other countries' media's lack of nuance is no excuse for Western media's lack of nuance.
- smt88 11y ago1) That was completely non-sequitur. I didn't say Christians are primarily responsible for discriminating against Muslims. 2) The people persecuting Christians in (some of) the Middle East aren't the same people facing persecution here. It's unfair to assume they're guilty of bigotry just because someone else who shares their religion is. Should we assume all Catholics molest children because some do? Are all Protestants members of the Klan? 3) I'm from the US, and I'm not bigoted toward Muslims or Christians (nor do I belong to either group). I'm neither pot nor kettle, so your nonsensical comment means even less to me.
- nahiluhmot 11y agoPretty telling that nobody on the set can read Arabic.
- Archio 11y agoPretty telling that what? The show is racist? I think there might be more nuance involved.
- patcon 11y agoI think (s)he was implying not that they're racist, but that they are ignorant of the cultures they are trusted to portray
- giarc 11y agoI'm sure someone on the set can read Arabic (extras for example) but I'm sure not all staff are walked through every set and exposed to all the art.
- pessimizer 11y agoAs racist as it would be if there were a US show based on how the French are scary, and no one involved with the show spoke French. It means that they are likely exclusively trading in stereotypes and Western orientialist imagery and tropes. I've never seen the show.
- stonogo 11y agoFrance is not a race. That would be xenophobia, which is a different brand of bigotry. Not speaking Arabic is a grey area -- not all Muslims are Arabic, despite the fact that the Quran is written in Arabic and only canonical in that language. There are millions and millions of Muslims who do not speak Arabic, and rely on their clergy to teach them the Quran. While it's apparently not the case here, the absence of an arabic-speaking component on the production team does not necessarily preclude a Muslim component on a production team.
- curiousjorge 11y agoit's a garbage Bush propaganda that grew out of 24 series.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 11y agoFixed in post-production for the dvd release.
- skywhopper 11y agoI wouldn't take fake background graffiti in a TV show as seriously as an Internet Essay. The graffiti that don't claim racism are mostly just silly, and "X is racist" could be read as being in line with the same type of silly humor as much as a "silent protest" or whatever. For all we know, the producers asked the artists to paint that text.
- bdcravens 11y agoI imagine doing the same thing on a show where they show "computer code" where it could actually compile to a message without being blatantly obvious (say, concatenated characters expressed in unicode)
- dlbucci 11y agoI think this actually happened in Ex Machina. There's a coding scene, and if you run the program the character writes, it points you to the ISBN for a book on AI.
- dba7dba 11y agoHomeland is a TV show, for entertainment. No one is happy with a lot of documentaries, the TV shows that are meant to get at facts and not just entertain. So while I don't want to give Homeland a free ride, it'd be too much to expect more from the show.
- stefantalpalaru 11y ago> Homeland is a TV show, for entertainment. It's also an excellent example of propaganda.
- qzxvwt 11y agoI believe entertainment media to be more powerful than people give credit for. But yeah, people should have the freedom to take creative liberties in this context, so we should at least be having an ongoing discourse about it as it fills more of our living experience every day.
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- Lawtonfogle 11y ago>what they did was wrong. It was a breech of trust. Is a breech of trust absolutely and objectively wrong in all circumstances? I'm not comfortable saying it is, at least not without far more thought. (P.S. I wonder if their contract in any way forbid this from being done. Because if not, this is no worse 'buyer beware' behavior than what is common among corporate America already.)
- rasur 11y ago'Breech' means buttocks first (as in breech birth). You want 'Breach'.
- pvaldes 11y ago... And fake controversy to create interest strikes again.
- gotchange 11y agoA native Arabic speaker here, I must say that I admire the courage and innovation of the graffiti artists and activists who chose this medium to protest and convey their message, which needless to say, that I don't necessarily endorse or share the creators' point of view. I have to admit that I haven't seen the show yet not even a single shot and I could say too that I have a very thick skin when it comes to "cultural insensitivities" in TV drama or real life. So, I don't have any problem with media, cinema or drama depicting characters from our region, the Middle East, or ones that share the same cultural background even in very negative and unflattering light. However, I must say that it's really alarming that not even a single person of the whole crew of the show has a 3rd grade proficiency level of the Arabic language to be able to read and grasp a two word phrase, esp. when the show prides itself on offering their audience deep insight into the characters, their mindsets, their psychological profile that they portray on screen, or that is what I at least was able to collect from the scattered and random reviews that I came across online recently. EDIT: For clarification and more input.
- mlvljr 11y agoSame has happened with writings in Russian language for decades -- Hollywood folks seem to not care at all :)
- TeMPOraL 11y agoHi 'gotchange! Since you speak (and read) Arabic, could you tell what's in the top left corner of that picture[0]? Seems like hashtag-something, but it wasn't mentioned in the article. [0] - http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/10/16/world/middleeast/16Homeland2-web/16Homeland2-web-superJumbo.jpg http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/10/16/world/middleeast/1...
- draw_down 11y agoI thought this was funny, and striking: https://twitter.com/sandman_leb/status/579021886845243392 https://twitter.com/sandman_leb/status/579021886845243392
- PopeOfNope 11y agoIt's funny, but not very striking. Ask an LA native how LA gets depicted in tv shows and movies. Or NYC. Or Belfast.
- draw_down 11y agoWell, the point isn't exactly that they film in a different location than the setting. Never seen LA with dirt roads.
- bengalister 11y agoThe Hollywood biased or caricatural vision is not exclusive to the middle East. You should see also how France and French are depicted in US comedies and TV series. Usually people are dressed like in the 50's, streets filled with cars of the 50's, hotels are filthy, and actors speak some words of French that is barely understandable. I don't see such stereotypical clichés with England.
- booohooo 11y agoOh boohoo, homeland is racist.
- balls187 11y agoMeanwhile, a cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad resulted the deaths of 12 people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo#Muhammad_cartoons_and_aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo#Muhammad_cartoon...
- chris_wot 11y agoMeanwhile, a Texas church burned the holy book of millions of Muslims. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dove_World_Outreach_Center_Quran-burning_controversy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dove_World_Outreach_Center_Q... What's your point?
- balls187 11y ago> Meanwhile, a Texas church burned the holy book of millions of Muslims. And Muslim (extremists?), killed 30 people in response, and resulted in a fatwa against Terry Jones. > What's your point? Artistic demonstration against the west, is (nearly) a right. Artistic expression against Muslims, is (nearly) a death sentence. --- It's a false equivalency to compare our (White Christian) nutjobs to their (Islam) nutjobs.
- chris_wot 11y agoAnd yet you made your argument with a false equivalence. The street in Lebanon (Hamra Street) that was depicted as a hotbed of terrorist activity is a cosmopolitan, liberal road. In case you can't see the issue: the series treats all Arabs and Muslims as dangerous terrorists willing to kill any "infidel" at the drop of a hat. And yet that is because of extremists, which exist everywhere - like, for example, Terry Jones. It's false to say that EVERY Muslim will kill someone who criticises their religion.
- balls187 11y agoI see the issue, and I understand what the artists gripes are. They're valid. I'm simply pointing out that subversive demonstration is a basic right under many standard western doctrines. It certainly is not under many interpretations of Islam. This is all generalized of course, as there are people in the US who believe US Flag Burning should be illegal, and Muslims artists that are against strict interpretations of Sharia law.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoWhat's that in the upper left corner of the other image[0]? Is that a hashtag-something? I don't see any mention of it neither in the article nor here. Can anyone who reads Arabic chime in? [0] - http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/10/16/world/middleeast/16Homeland2-web/16Homeland2-web-superJumbo.jpg http://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/10/16/world/middleeast/1...
- sanid 11y agoOne of the artists (Heba Amin) was interviewed on live tv by sky News [0] [0] http://news.sky.com/video/1570367/homeland-hacked-by-arab-artists http://news.sky.com/video/1570367/homeland-hacked-by-arab-ar...
- gopowerranger 11y agoSo a fictional TV show about fictional characters has everyone going on today?
- geetee 11y agoThe amusing part to me is that Homeland actually draws the line down the middle pretty much. It shows the human side of "terrorists" and also demonizes the CIA.