4 ms·

Hm. So what stops US from targeted killings in China? Russia? Europe? Only the probable retaliation?

by praptak 11y ago

frandroid 11y ago
Yeah. "Only" when the conflict could then escalate and the opponent has nuclear weapons is kind of understating the case.
- praptak 11y ago
  From the ethical point of view? Yup, it's still "only". You are not considered ethical if your motivation is " do what we can get away with".
harryf 11y ago
Who's to say it's not already happening? Could be an interesting twist on this mystery... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10391723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10391723
TeMPOraL 11y ago
Nuclear weapons, most likely.
- gerty 11y ago
  Doesn't explain Pakistan though.
  - rhino369 11y ago
    Pakistani leadership wants the Drone strikes. At least parts of Pakistani leadership wants the Drone strikes.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    True. The bombings happen near the border though, they're probably easy for the government of Pakistan to ignore, or maybe even convenient. Moreover, from what I can find on-line, Pakistan seems to have just over a hundred warheads, most in the few dozen kiloton range, none exceeding half a megaton. They can't do any real damage with that. Maybe blow up a few cities in the US, at which point the rest of the world would turn them into a flat sheet of glass visible from orbit, and the only good thing that would come from that for anyone would be increased albedo of Earth helping combat the global warming. There is no MAD situation with Pakistan.
revelation 11y ago
Radar?
13thLetter 11y ago
Yes. And that's also the only thing that stops China, Russia, and Europe from targeted killings in the United States.
rhino369 11y ago
Motive is the big reason. It's not like America is killing people for fun or some petty economic gain. America is killing people that American believes they are at war with. Hell, America is killing people who believe themselves to be at war with America. But drones only work when you have total air supremacy. Any halfway decent airforce can protect against the huge drones America fires missiles from.
- bediger4000 11y ago
  It's not like America is killing people for fun or some petty economic gain. How do we know this, again? The folks who have said this are legally bound not to say anything else. So they're not particularly believable. The Snowden revelations about PetroBras hacking somewhat (but not totally, admittedly) makes me very suspicious that network penetration goes on for petty economic gain. Why wouldn't that leak into drone strikes?
  - j2kun 11y ago
    You could suppose there is an insane person in our government who is killing for fun, but that has all the usual logical pitfalls of a conspiracy theory. As for economic gain (not sure what is meant by "petty" economic gain), that has been a large part of the source of most international conflicts over the past few hundred years anyway. So that just sounds false.
    - rdancer 11y ago
      Far it be from any person to do things just because they can. They're all saints w/o blemish, protestants at that (i.e. they don't enjoy the work, rather they suffer with their victims). Whatever the job description, you will get people gravitating to it who enjoy that kind of work. It's not controversial that cooks enjoy cooking, and programmer enjoy programming. And it's not unusual that they stay after hours and do some extra work just for fun. Why would you think jobs that involve killing and torture be any different?
      - 11y ago
rdancer 11y ago
They just don't use drones; instead, there will be a traffic accident or a suicide. Or a single-car traffic accident, where it's unclear if the driver wanted to commit suicide or not. The main thing that "stops" people from committing acts of war is that you cannot really keep it a secret for too long, and then you will have started a war. Pakistan is different, because while we wage war against their citizens, the central government (a) is only nominally in control of those areas, and (b) is given a metric ton of money each year by NATO, and they don't hate money. If they didn't have nukes, the war against Pakistan would be much more brazen (cf. Ukraine).
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
Those drone strikes are, mostly, done with the authorization and approval of the target country. They don't like their militants either. This issue is a lot more complex than "GUISE GUISE OBAMA KILLIN KIDS FOR FUN." The US cooperates with local intelligence, foreign governments, etc to find and eliminate these targets. From a practical point of view, the alternative would be boots on the ground fighting that would guarantee vastly more innocents killed.

Hm. So what stops US from targeted killings in China? Russia? Europe? Only the probable retaliation?

by praptak 11y ago

Hm. So what stops US from targeted killings in China? Russia? Europe? Only the probable retaliation?

Yeah. "Only" when the conflict could then escalate and the opponent has nuclear weapons is kind of understating the case.

praptak 11y ago
From the ethical point of view? Yup, it's still "only". You are not considered ethical if your motivation is " do what we can get away with".

harryf 11y ago

Who's to say it's not already happening? Could be an interesting twist on this mystery... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10391723 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10391723

TeMPOraL 11y ago

Nuclear weapons, most likely.

gerty 11y ago
Doesn't explain Pakistan though.
- rhino369 11y ago
  Pakistani leadership wants the Drone strikes. At least parts of Pakistani leadership wants the Drone strikes.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  True. The bombings happen near the border though, they're probably easy for the government of Pakistan to ignore, or maybe even convenient. Moreover, from what I can find on-line, Pakistan seems to have just over a hundred warheads, most in the few dozen kiloton range, none exceeding half a megaton. They can't do any real damage with that. Maybe blow up a few cities in the US, at which point the rest of the world would turn them into a flat sheet of glass visible from orbit, and the only good thing that would come from that for anyone would be increased albedo of Earth helping combat the global warming. There is no MAD situation with Pakistan.

revelation 11y ago

Radar?

13thLetter 11y ago

Yes. And that's also the only thing that stops China, Russia, and Europe from targeted killings in the United States.

rhino369 11y ago

Motive is the big reason. It's not like America is killing people for fun or some petty economic gain. America is killing people that American believes they are at war with. Hell, America is killing people who believe themselves to be at war with America. But drones only work when you have total air supremacy. Any halfway decent airforce can protect against the huge drones America fires missiles from.

bediger4000 11y ago
It's not like America is killing people for fun or some petty economic gain. How do we know this, again? The folks who have said this are legally bound not to say anything else. So they're not particularly believable. The Snowden revelations about PetroBras hacking somewhat (but not totally, admittedly) makes me very suspicious that network penetration goes on for petty economic gain. Why wouldn't that leak into drone strikes?
- j2kun 11y ago
  You could suppose there is an insane person in our government who is killing for fun, but that has all the usual logical pitfalls of a conspiracy theory. As for economic gain (not sure what is meant by "petty" economic gain), that has been a large part of the source of most international conflicts over the past few hundred years anyway. So that just sounds false.
  - rdancer 11y ago
    Far it be from any person to do things just because they can. They're all saints w/o blemish, protestants at that (i.e. they don't enjoy the work, rather they suffer with their victims). Whatever the job description, you will get people gravitating to it who enjoy that kind of work. It's not controversial that cooks enjoy cooking, and programmer enjoy programming. And it's not unusual that they stay after hours and do some extra work just for fun. Why would you think jobs that involve killing and torture be any different?
    - 11y ago

rdancer 11y ago

They just don't use drones; instead, there will be a traffic accident or a suicide. Or a single-car traffic accident, where it's unclear if the driver wanted to commit suicide or not. The main thing that "stops" people from committing acts of war is that you cannot really keep it a secret for too long, and then you will have started a war. Pakistan is different, because while we wage war against their citizens, the central government (a) is only nominally in control of those areas, and (b) is given a metric ton of money each year by NATO, and they don't hate money. If they didn't have nukes, the war against Pakistan would be much more brazen (cf. Ukraine).

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

Those drone strikes are, mostly, done with the authorization and approval of the target country. They don't like their militants either. This issue is a lot more complex than "GUISE GUISE OBAMA KILLIN KIDS FOR FUN." The US cooperates with local intelligence, foreign governments, etc to find and eliminate these targets. From a practical point of view, the alternative would be boots on the ground fighting that would guarantee vastly more innocents killed.