7 ms·

Oklahoma City's War on Obesity

42 points by kelukelugames 11y ago

adventured 11y ago
> In Guatemala it is rare to see people who are very overweight, but it could not be more different here The woman quoted is correct, however Guatemala is semi-unique in Latin America for being lower on the obesity scale than most countries there. Obesity is generally just as big of a problem across Latin America as it is in the US, with Mexico, Chile, Argentina, Venezuela, El Salvador, Belize, Panama, Uruguay - all ranking either fairly high or very high on the obesity scale. I'd be very curious to know what separates Guatemala from its neighbors Belize / Mexico / El Salvador, which all have serious obesity problems.
- Avshalom 11y ago
  Every country you listed (even El Salvador by a hair) has a higher HDI than Guatamala. I'mma just throw out that maybe (hint, no maybe about) "obesity" got defined when the world was poorer and maybe (this is the actual maybe) at least some of the rise is fewer malnourished children/adults.
dang 11y ago
Url changed from http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/how-one-of-americas-fattest-cities-lost-a-million-pounds/410371/?utm_source=SFTwitter&single_page=true http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/how-one-of..., which points to this.
legohead 11y ago
I moved from OKC to SoCal, and noticed the weight difference immediately. When I traveled back to OKC a couple years later to visit some friends, I was actually disgusted by the people I saw there. It's easy to get accustomed to things...
- jusben1369 11y ago
  I think this is one of the biggest challenges I see in terms of "fat shaming" It would appear there is a direct correlation between how much additional weight people carry and the general tolerance level for obesity in that community. If we remove fat shaming altogether it's likely more people will become sicker and die faster. It's worth noting that my cousin also moved to SoCal. She's now in her 40's and snorts cocaine 2 or 3 times a week in the evening to skip eating to keep herself slim. Apparently it's a very common practise amongst her and her friends.
  - birdmanjeremy 11y ago
    Your cousin is a coke head, and likely has an eating disorder. This is not the norm outside of her group of friends.
    - jusben1369 11y ago
      Right. Except she's not that different to the Guatemalan lady in the original story. None of those issues existed until she moved to a new location. That's why it was so shocking to me.
  - gorena 11y ago
    > It's worth noting that my cousin also moved to SoCal. She's now in her 40's and snorts cocaine 2 or 3 times a week in the evening to skip eating to keep herself slim. Apparently it's a very common practise amongst her and her friends. This seems insane, if you want to stay thin, just eat at or below your TDEE and... that will happen (or increase your TDEE).
- seiji 11y ago
  It's really easy to see online too. Just browse online dating profiles for large cities versus suburbs (or walkable/transit cities versus car-only cities). People go from looking like actual people to looking like comical balloons. Obesity is a national (global?) security crisis. It will cost trillions in preventable medical expenses, it causes excess fuel consumption, reduces productivity, and government+industry seems complicit in continuing the trend based on city planning and subsidy allocations. (Not to mention government policies/recommendations probably started the whole obesity crisis by promoting "low fat, high carb+sugar" eating practices ("food pyramid") for two dozen years across an increasingly sedentary population.)
  - brookside 11y ago
    I buy 'crisis' but, 'security crisis'?
    - seiji 11y ago
      Where do the trillions of dollars for medical coverage come from? Either increased taxes for everybody or increased insurance payments for everybody. Monetary security. What about lost productivity due to self-induced health issues? Economic security. What about military? We can't have armed forces of obese recruits. National defense security. What about police? What's the use of an overweight police force that can't walk up stairs without getting winded? Local security.
- ashwinaj 11y ago
  Culture aside, it's an economic issue too. When someone is in a grocery shop and sees beef/chicken/pork/fish at $0.99/lb and sees a bunch of spinach (< 1 lb by weight) for $1+, what are you gonna buy?
  - gorena 11y ago
    But you just have to eat less beef - spinach isn't inherently obesity-preventing, if you somehow eat 2500 calories of spinach (I mean, good luck, but...) but only expend 2000 per day, you'll gain weight!
    - msandford 11y ago
      That's almost exactly what cows do. Eat 10-20lbs of grass per day and gain a couple of pounds of weight. Of course, cows are "designed" to do this, while people seemingly are not.
    - logfromblammo 11y ago
      2500 kcal of spinach is... (searching web)... 10.8 kg. That's... that's just... wow. 85 liters of spinach. That's like eating more than half of a short (36") bale of hay. ~So yeah, not inherently obesity-preventing.~ The downside is that you will be consuming about 80 grams of oxalic acid. The LD-Lo is 600 mg/kg, meaning that unless you are 135 kg (300 lbs), that much spinach could possibly kill you. Aside from bursting your guts from the inside from the sheer volume of it, that is. I guess the steaks just kill you more slowly.
    - ashwinaj 11y ago
      I didn't literally mean replace meat with spinach. It was an example to show that vegetables are more expensive than meat.
  - shanemhansen 11y ago
    I think you're right about the economics, but I'd hold off on blaming the meat. While the article mentions meat being more expensive, the rest of the article is filled with quotes like "snacking all day on bits of burger and pizza" and "drink lots of atole – a heavily sweetened corn-based drink". All pretty carb heavy. The article mentions that the dietary changes made are: "eats fast food just once a week, cooks more vegetables, has cut down the number of tortillas".
ihsw 11y ago
TLDR: more exercise, dramatically less junk food consumption (fast food, soda, snacks, etc), dramatically increased nutritional education More importantly I find the focus on low-fat fast food menu items highly suspect -- significantly reducing carbohydrate consumption has been shown, empirically and anecdotally the world over, to have a greater impact (if not the greatest impact) on weight and health management. The low-fat diet craze has hurt more than helped the fight against obesity. The problem with restricting carbohydrate intake is that it's everywhere and it hurts the bottom line of pretty much all of the prepared food and drink industry. That said, I'm not at all advocating that we all start eating sticks of butter, but a balance must be maintained -- 30/30/25/10 with 30% protein, 30% fat, 25% carbohydrates, and 10% dietary fiber. This is back of the hand math but I think it works out. Most people trade out protein for carbs (because protein is expensive) and fat for carbs (because fat is apparently bad for you), which results in weight gain and diabetes risk. Generally it can be assumed that the most common form of carbohydrate substituted is a sugar or grain, which usually have very high-glycemic indexes. This spikes the blood-sugar and beta-endorphin levels, the latter encouraging addictive habits (feeling good after eating high-glycemic food, going into withdrawal when not consuming frequently enough, etc).
- Kristine1975 11y ago
  >That said, I'm not at all advocating that we all start eating sticks of butter Iowa is way ahead of you: http://www.eater.com/2011/8/10/6663841/a-deep-fried-stick-of-butter-on-a-stick-at-the-iowa-state-fair http://www.eater.com/2011/8/10/6663841/a-deep-fried-stick-of...
- CuriouslyC 11y ago
  You can't really prescribe one macronutrient ratio for everyone. Someone who is morbidly obese might do best on a diet almost completely absent in carbohydrates, while someone who is lean will do better on a diet that is relatively high in carbohydrates. Additionally, activity level makes a big difference in optimal carbohydrate intake. For instance, I'm _very_ lean and active, and I thrive on a diet that is almost fat free (I get my essential fats from eggs and fish oil).
  - 11y ago
Kristine1975 11y ago
>I was offered desert and chose a “roasted pecan ice cream ball... smothered in chocolate sauce”. The waiter said that was a good choice, then asked if I wanted it “volleyball, softball or baseball sized” A volleyball is about 20cm in diameter. Not even as a child could I have eaten that much ice cream. At least not without doing like the Ancient Romans.
- syntheticnature 11y ago
  ...golf ball sized sounds closer to my preference.
  - masklinn 11y ago
    Golf ball seems a bit on the small size, but tennis ball is way too big. Maybe snooker balls? Looks about halfway between one and the other diameter-wise.
    - Nicholas_C 11y ago
      Racquetball sized would be perfect.
- knodi123 11y ago
  > At least not without doing like the Ancient Romans. That's actually an urban legend based on a mistranslation. The term "vomitorium" just means "exit corridor"; a room which "vomits" people out into the street. They did not have dedicated barfing rooms in their homes, nor was barfing a routine part of their lives.
cms07 11y ago
I'm from Oklahoma, and I always wonder how much of our social behavior is based on the fact that Oklahoma was, until recently, Indian Territory and land worked by farmers who came around the time of the land runs. If you're struggling to provide enough food for your family in 1889, there's no way you are letting your children not eat all of their food. I'm sure that is self-perpetuating in some way.
- VanillaCafe 11y ago
  I grew up in Oklahoma. I think the first problem is the gallons of Coke people drink every day. People forget that you can actually drink water when you're thirsty.
  - Nicholas_C 11y ago
    I never understood people who proclaim they are thirsty and then grab a coke.
knodi123 11y ago
What's with all the "stone" measurements? I'm used to seeing that in historical novels, but not in modern writing. Is stone a regionally popular unit, or have I just been utterly oblivious to its modern commonality?
- toupeetape 11y ago
  It is unused outside of the UK and Ireland where it is still the most commonly used unit for measuring the weight of a person.
  - smacktoward 11y ago
    And Mosaic appears to be a UK-based publication: http://mosaicscience.com/about-mosaic http://mosaicscience.com/about-mosaic
  - knodi123 11y ago
    Bizarre. They managed to adopt the metric system for weights, except when measuring humans. At least that mystery is solved, though- thanks!
- rce 11y ago
  It's 14 lbs
mratzloff 11y ago
I grew up in Kansas, and my dad now lives in Oklahoma. Living in Seattle, I'm used to a variety of healthy choices. When I visit my parents, though, I struggle. If it's difficult to go out to dinner and eat healthy in Kansas, it's nearly impossible in Oklahoma. Oklahoma is composed of three things: fast food, buffets, and gas stations. As an example, on my most recent trip to Oklahoma, we went to a buffet and I decided to get a salad. At the large "salad" bar there were exactly three vegetables: iceberg lettuce, radishes, and carrots. Everything else was meat (mostly fried) or bread. I ordered a side of green beans; they were canned and fairly unappealing. No wonder people don't eat healthier when the options are so limited and unattractive.
tfandango 11y ago
From Norman, about 20 min south of OKC. The strides here have been huge in terms of activities. It used to be the case that there was nothing to do outside, especially in the humid/hot summer months. Now there are tons of things to do. Food is still the big issue though, if you are on the go there are no healthy choices, in fact people tend to take pride in their cheesburgers and fries (local place in Norman advertised a 2K calorie burger). OKC is a lot more walkable though now. It would be nice to get people from Norman, Moore, Edmond, etc to the city without their cars.

42 points by kelukelugames 11y ago

> In Guatemala it is rare to see people who are very overweight, but it could not be more different here The woman quoted is correct, however Guatemala is semi-unique in Latin America for being lower on the obesity scale than most countries there. Obesity is generally just as big of a problem across Latin America as it is in the US, with Mexico, Chile, Argentina, Venezuela, El Salvador, Belize, Panama, Uruguay - all ranking either fairly high or very high on the obesity scale. I'd be very curious to know what separates Guatemala from its neighbors Belize / Mexico / El Salvador, which all have serious obesity problems.

Avshalom 11y ago
Every country you listed (even El Salvador by a hair) has a higher HDI than Guatamala. I'mma just throw out that maybe (hint, no maybe about) "obesity" got defined when the world was poorer and maybe (this is the actual maybe) at least some of the rise is fewer malnourished children/adults.

dang 11y ago

Url changed from http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/how-one-of-americas-fattest-cities-lost-a-million-pounds/410371/?utm_source=SFTwitter&single_page=true http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/how-one-of..., which points to this.

legohead 11y ago

I moved from OKC to SoCal, and noticed the weight difference immediately. When I traveled back to OKC a couple years later to visit some friends, I was actually disgusted by the people I saw there. It's easy to get accustomed to things...

jusben1369 11y ago
I think this is one of the biggest challenges I see in terms of "fat shaming" It would appear there is a direct correlation between how much additional weight people carry and the general tolerance level for obesity in that community. If we remove fat shaming altogether it's likely more people will become sicker and die faster. It's worth noting that my cousin also moved to SoCal. She's now in her 40's and snorts cocaine 2 or 3 times a week in the evening to skip eating to keep herself slim. Apparently it's a very common practise amongst her and her friends.
- birdmanjeremy 11y ago
  Your cousin is a coke head, and likely has an eating disorder. This is not the norm outside of her group of friends.
  - jusben1369 11y ago
    Right. Except she's not that different to the Guatemalan lady in the original story. None of those issues existed until she moved to a new location. That's why it was so shocking to me.
- gorena 11y ago
  > It's worth noting that my cousin also moved to SoCal. She's now in her 40's and snorts cocaine 2 or 3 times a week in the evening to skip eating to keep herself slim. Apparently it's a very common practise amongst her and her friends. This seems insane, if you want to stay thin, just eat at or below your TDEE and... that will happen (or increase your TDEE).
seiji 11y ago
It's really easy to see online too. Just browse online dating profiles for large cities versus suburbs (or walkable/transit cities versus car-only cities). People go from looking like actual people to looking like comical balloons. Obesity is a national (global?) security crisis. It will cost trillions in preventable medical expenses, it causes excess fuel consumption, reduces productivity, and government+industry seems complicit in continuing the trend based on city planning and subsidy allocations. (Not to mention government policies/recommendations probably started the whole obesity crisis by promoting "low fat, high carb+sugar" eating practices ("food pyramid") for two dozen years across an increasingly sedentary population.)
- brookside 11y ago
  I buy 'crisis' but, 'security crisis'?
  - seiji 11y ago
    Where do the trillions of dollars for medical coverage come from? Either increased taxes for everybody or increased insurance payments for everybody. Monetary security. What about lost productivity due to self-induced health issues? Economic security. What about military? We can't have armed forces of obese recruits. National defense security. What about police? What's the use of an overweight police force that can't walk up stairs without getting winded? Local security.
ashwinaj 11y ago
Culture aside, it's an economic issue too. When someone is in a grocery shop and sees beef/chicken/pork/fish at $0.99/lb and sees a bunch of spinach (< 1 lb by weight) for $1+, what are you gonna buy?
- gorena 11y ago
  But you just have to eat less beef - spinach isn't inherently obesity-preventing, if you somehow eat 2500 calories of spinach (I mean, good luck, but...) but only expend 2000 per day, you'll gain weight!
  - msandford 11y ago
    That's almost exactly what cows do. Eat 10-20lbs of grass per day and gain a couple of pounds of weight. Of course, cows are "designed" to do this, while people seemingly are not.
  - logfromblammo 11y ago
    2500 kcal of spinach is... (searching web)... 10.8 kg. That's... that's just... wow. 85 liters of spinach. That's like eating more than half of a short (36") bale of hay. ~So yeah, not inherently obesity-preventing.~ The downside is that you will be consuming about 80 grams of oxalic acid. The LD-Lo is 600 mg/kg, meaning that unless you are 135 kg (300 lbs), that much spinach could possibly kill you. Aside from bursting your guts from the inside from the sheer volume of it, that is. I guess the steaks just kill you more slowly.
  - ashwinaj 11y ago
    I didn't literally mean replace meat with spinach. It was an example to show that vegetables are more expensive than meat.
- shanemhansen 11y ago
  I think you're right about the economics, but I'd hold off on blaming the meat. While the article mentions meat being more expensive, the rest of the article is filled with quotes like "snacking all day on bits of burger and pizza" and "drink lots of atole – a heavily sweetened corn-based drink". All pretty carb heavy. The article mentions that the dietary changes made are: "eats fast food just once a week, cooks more vegetables, has cut down the number of tortillas".

ihsw 11y ago

TLDR: more exercise, dramatically less junk food consumption (fast food, soda, snacks, etc), dramatically increased nutritional education More importantly I find the focus on low-fat fast food menu items highly suspect -- significantly reducing carbohydrate consumption has been shown, empirically and anecdotally the world over, to have a greater impact (if not the greatest impact) on weight and health management. The low-fat diet craze has hurt more than helped the fight against obesity. The problem with restricting carbohydrate intake is that it's everywhere and it hurts the bottom line of pretty much all of the prepared food and drink industry. That said, I'm not at all advocating that we all start eating sticks of butter, but a balance must be maintained -- 30/30/25/10 with 30% protein, 30% fat, 25% carbohydrates, and 10% dietary fiber. This is back of the hand math but I think it works out. Most people trade out protein for carbs (because protein is expensive) and fat for carbs (because fat is apparently bad for you), which results in weight gain and diabetes risk. Generally it can be assumed that the most common form of carbohydrate substituted is a sugar or grain, which usually have very high-glycemic indexes. This spikes the blood-sugar and beta-endorphin levels, the latter encouraging addictive habits (feeling good after eating high-glycemic food, going into withdrawal when not consuming frequently enough, etc).

Kristine1975 11y ago
>That said, I'm not at all advocating that we all start eating sticks of butter Iowa is way ahead of you: http://www.eater.com/2011/8/10/6663841/a-deep-fried-stick-of-butter-on-a-stick-at-the-iowa-state-fair http://www.eater.com/2011/8/10/6663841/a-deep-fried-stick-of...
CuriouslyC 11y ago
You can't really prescribe one macronutrient ratio for everyone. Someone who is morbidly obese might do best on a diet almost completely absent in carbohydrates, while someone who is lean will do better on a diet that is relatively high in carbohydrates. Additionally, activity level makes a big difference in optimal carbohydrate intake. For instance, I'm _very_ lean and active, and I thrive on a diet that is almost fat free (I get my essential fats from eggs and fish oil).
- 11y ago

Kristine1975 11y ago

>I was offered desert and chose a “roasted pecan ice cream ball... smothered in chocolate sauce”. The waiter said that was a good choice, then asked if I wanted it “volleyball, softball or baseball sized” A volleyball is about 20cm in diameter. Not even as a child could I have eaten that much ice cream. At least not without doing like the Ancient Romans.

syntheticnature 11y ago
...golf ball sized sounds closer to my preference.
- masklinn 11y ago
  Golf ball seems a bit on the small size, but tennis ball is way too big. Maybe snooker balls? Looks about halfway between one and the other diameter-wise.
  - Nicholas_C 11y ago
    Racquetball sized would be perfect.
knodi123 11y ago
> At least not without doing like the Ancient Romans. That's actually an urban legend based on a mistranslation. The term "vomitorium" just means "exit corridor"; a room which "vomits" people out into the street. They did not have dedicated barfing rooms in their homes, nor was barfing a routine part of their lives.

cms07 11y ago

I'm from Oklahoma, and I always wonder how much of our social behavior is based on the fact that Oklahoma was, until recently, Indian Territory and land worked by farmers who came around the time of the land runs. If you're struggling to provide enough food for your family in 1889, there's no way you are letting your children not eat all of their food. I'm sure that is self-perpetuating in some way.

VanillaCafe 11y ago
I grew up in Oklahoma. I think the first problem is the gallons of Coke people drink every day. People forget that you can actually drink water when you're thirsty.
- Nicholas_C 11y ago
  I never understood people who proclaim they are thirsty and then grab a coke.

knodi123 11y ago

What's with all the "stone" measurements? I'm used to seeing that in historical novels, but not in modern writing. Is stone a regionally popular unit, or have I just been utterly oblivious to its modern commonality?

toupeetape 11y ago
It is unused outside of the UK and Ireland where it is still the most commonly used unit for measuring the weight of a person.
- smacktoward 11y ago
  And Mosaic appears to be a UK-based publication: http://mosaicscience.com/about-mosaic http://mosaicscience.com/about-mosaic
- knodi123 11y ago
  Bizarre. They managed to adopt the metric system for weights, except when measuring humans. At least that mystery is solved, though- thanks!
rce 11y ago
It's 14 lbs

mratzloff 11y ago

I grew up in Kansas, and my dad now lives in Oklahoma. Living in Seattle, I'm used to a variety of healthy choices. When I visit my parents, though, I struggle. If it's difficult to go out to dinner and eat healthy in Kansas, it's nearly impossible in Oklahoma. Oklahoma is composed of three things: fast food, buffets, and gas stations. As an example, on my most recent trip to Oklahoma, we went to a buffet and I decided to get a salad. At the large "salad" bar there were exactly three vegetables: iceberg lettuce, radishes, and carrots. Everything else was meat (mostly fried) or bread. I ordered a side of green beans; they were canned and fairly unappealing. No wonder people don't eat healthier when the options are so limited and unattractive.

tfandango 11y ago

From Norman, about 20 min south of OKC. The strides here have been huge in terms of activities. It used to be the case that there was nothing to do outside, especially in the humid/hot summer months. Now there are tons of things to do. Food is still the big issue though, if you are on the go there are no healthy choices, in fact people tend to take pride in their cheesburgers and fries (local place in Norman advertised a 2K calorie burger). OKC is a lot more walkable though now. It would be nice to get people from Norman, Moore, Edmond, etc to the city without their cars.