6 ms·

There are a few interesting anecdotes about this huge story - This is the same leak that Glenn Greenwald describes to Edward Snowden in Moscow (-> -> -> -> POT

by yuvadam 11y ago

There are a few interesting anecdotes about this huge story - This is the same leak that Glenn Greenwald describes to Edward Snowden in Moscow (-> -> -> -> POTUS), meaning this story has been in the making for at least 1.5 years. Second, this quality and quantity of leaks is incredible and can only be attributed to a news organization that takes security as a paramount consideration, setting up proper secure channels to enable technically apt whistle-blowers to approach them with confidence. Props to The Intercept for some fine journalist work.

Kristine1975 11y ago
>This is the same leak that Glenn Greenwald describes to Edward Snowden in Moscow (-> -> -> -> POTUS You mean in "Citizen Four", right?
- rdancer 11y ago
  Yes.
dombili 11y ago
Oh, so that's what that scene was about! I re-watched it now and it really is incredible. Screenshots of some of Greenwald's notes (they don't say much): 1- http://i.imgur.com/Xk3tefg.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Xk3tefg.jpg 2- http://i.imgur.com/3C7sdIA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3C7sdIA.jpg 3- http://i.imgur.com/8FNhVfE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8FNhVfE.jpg
- AUmrysh 11y ago
  "There are 1.2 m people on various stages of their watch list" :-O That's absolutely terrifying. I wonder how many of those are American citizens.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - RevRal 11y ago
    My gut says a majority, I believe that the war is truly inward. A flagging system wouldn't be too difficult. You could even flag people who aren't dead and yet haven't raised a flag in some time-frame (Unibomber). Statistical analysis, the data's all there. Set up keys that resemble the analyses's output. Find what you're looking for. Unfortunately, those keys are controllable. You'll always find people who fit a certain profile, you will always find who you're looking for. Unfortunately, you'll require some vagueness to ensure that the net you've cast doesn't have holes too large.
- jsn117 11y ago
  Those are some amazing revelations, ones that have nothing to do with spying and everything to do with defeating a war effort.
e12e 11y ago
Are you sure these are the same documents/from the same source? (As far as I recall, those were from a drone pilot, that's done a few tv appearances already?). Or that was my impression, anyway. [Bad form to comment before I've read the story, but just wanted a clarification - if this was an assumption or something that's been stated clearly by one of the people involved?]
- yuvadam 11y ago
  In Citizenfour (the scene I was referencing but neglected to mention) GG explicitly mentions this slide, as well as the existence of another whistleblower. Of course the situation might be more complicated than that, but it's clear the story was in the making for quite some time. I also recall Laura Poitras mentioning the work that Jeremy Scahill was doing on this topic at one of the Q&A's she did.
  - e12e 11y ago
    Right. I thought (when I saw the film) that he was reffering to the leaks by Brandon Bryant: http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/aktuell/Brandon-Bryant-Ramstein-is-absolutely-essential,drohnen252.html http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/aktuell/Brandon-Bryant-Ramst... (etc)
anigbrowl 11y ago
I'm inclined to at least consider the possibility that other foreign governments are helping out with making this information available because it suits their own interests. The notion that Snowden and Greenwald are plucky little protagonists doing everything on their own against the malign might of the US government is a peculiarly American narrative in that it doesn't consider the possibility that any non-Americans could be involved in shaping public perceptions in the US.
- sangnoir 11y ago
  This is insane. By your logic: "I'm inclined to at least consider the possibility that the Russians are polluting American's precious bodily fluids because it suits their own interests..."
  - anigbrowl 11y ago
    Leaking supposedly confidential information to the press is hardly a novel technique in espionage, or in any social context for that matter, eg feeding a juicy tale to the village gossip to embarrass a rival. Machiavelli made a systematic study of such techniques centuries ago. What do you find so insane about it?
    - sangnoir 11y ago
      What is insane to me, is the reasoning behind suggesting "X is beneficial to Russia. Therefore Russia is doing X" without producing a shred of evidence. I am inclined to at least consider the possibility that you are a NSA/GCHQ agent[1] attempting to discredit and diminish the reputation of Snowden and Greenwald. See what I did there? 1. https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
      - robertfw 11y ago
        What I see is you putting words into anigbrowl's mouth (letters onto his keyboard?)

by yuvadam 11y ago

Kristine1975 11y ago

>This is the same leak that Glenn Greenwald describes to Edward Snowden in Moscow (-> -> -> -> POTUS You mean in "Citizen Four", right?

rdancer 11y ago
Yes.

dombili 11y ago

Oh, so that's what that scene was about! I re-watched it now and it really is incredible. Screenshots of some of Greenwald's notes (they don't say much): 1- http://i.imgur.com/Xk3tefg.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Xk3tefg.jpg 2- http://i.imgur.com/3C7sdIA.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3C7sdIA.jpg 3- http://i.imgur.com/8FNhVfE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/8FNhVfE.jpg

AUmrysh 11y ago
"There are 1.2 m people on various stages of their watch list" :-O That's absolutely terrifying. I wonder how many of those are American citizens.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- RevRal 11y ago
  My gut says a majority, I believe that the war is truly inward. A flagging system wouldn't be too difficult. You could even flag people who aren't dead and yet haven't raised a flag in some time-frame (Unibomber). Statistical analysis, the data's all there. Set up keys that resemble the analyses's output. Find what you're looking for. Unfortunately, those keys are controllable. You'll always find people who fit a certain profile, you will always find who you're looking for. Unfortunately, you'll require some vagueness to ensure that the net you've cast doesn't have holes too large.
jsn117 11y ago
Those are some amazing revelations, ones that have nothing to do with spying and everything to do with defeating a war effort.

e12e 11y ago

Are you sure these are the same documents/from the same source? (As far as I recall, those were from a drone pilot, that's done a few tv appearances already?). Or that was my impression, anyway. [Bad form to comment before I've read the story, but just wanted a clarification - if this was an assumption or something that's been stated clearly by one of the people involved?]

yuvadam 11y ago
In Citizenfour (the scene I was referencing but neglected to mention) GG explicitly mentions this slide, as well as the existence of another whistleblower. Of course the situation might be more complicated than that, but it's clear the story was in the making for quite some time. I also recall Laura Poitras mentioning the work that Jeremy Scahill was doing on this topic at one of the Q&A's she did.
- e12e 11y ago
  Right. I thought (when I saw the film) that he was reffering to the leaks by Brandon Bryant: http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/aktuell/Brandon-Bryant-Ramstein-is-absolutely-essential,drohnen252.html http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/aktuell/Brandon-Bryant-Ramst... (etc)

anigbrowl 11y ago

I'm inclined to at least consider the possibility that other foreign governments are helping out with making this information available because it suits their own interests. The notion that Snowden and Greenwald are plucky little protagonists doing everything on their own against the malign might of the US government is a peculiarly American narrative in that it doesn't consider the possibility that any non-Americans could be involved in shaping public perceptions in the US.

sangnoir 11y ago
This is insane. By your logic: "I'm inclined to at least consider the possibility that the Russians are polluting American's precious bodily fluids because it suits their own interests..."
- anigbrowl 11y ago
  Leaking supposedly confidential information to the press is hardly a novel technique in espionage, or in any social context for that matter, eg feeding a juicy tale to the village gossip to embarrass a rival. Machiavelli made a systematic study of such techniques centuries ago. What do you find so insane about it?
  - sangnoir 11y ago
    What is insane to me, is the reasoning behind suggesting "X is beneficial to Russia. Therefore Russia is doing X" without producing a shred of evidence. I am inclined to at least consider the possibility that you are a NSA/GCHQ agent[1] attempting to discredit and diminish the reputation of Snowden and Greenwald. See what I did there? 1. https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
    - robertfw 11y ago
      What I see is you putting words into anigbrowl's mouth (letters onto his keyboard?)