6 ms·

"All of them should be allowed on the pavement, because people aren't stupid, they will get out of the way if they see one coming." Speaking as someone who som

by markh1967 11y ago

"All of them should be allowed on the pavement, because people aren't stupid, they will get out of the way if they see one coming." Speaking as someone who sometimes puts his back out and spends a few days hobbling slowly about, I shouldn't have to quickly get out of someone's way if I see them coming and they shouldn't be allowed on pavements.

wyager 11y ago
It's not practical to design everything in the world with the very slowest people in mind. The efficiency losses would be huge. Imagine if every pedestrian crossing light went for five minutes. Vehicular traffic would grind to a standstill. That said, I see no reason why the people riding these things couldn't just move around other people. I rarely have problems with people on bicycles, because we can mutually avoid each other.
- omellet 11y ago
  Bicycles aren't allowed on the sidewalk, either.
  - atomicfiredoll 11y ago
    How fast do these go compared to a bicycle? I saw a few of them on the street and they didn't seem to be moving faster than a brisk walker. My impression was that bikes are generally banned because they move fast enough to cause serious injury yet are silent enough that pedestrians don't hear them coming.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      I've seen a few of these in London they aren't really faster than a fast walking speed which makes people who use them look very silly. They are quite often laughably used in shopping centers or and super markets mostly because allot of the pavements in London are horribly uneven which probably doesn't provide a very good surface for those. I've seen 2 guys on those things at Westfield last weekend arguing with a bunch of confused staff that didn't knew how to treat them. I don't really get this device it doesn't help you to commute any faster, it doesn't increase your pedestrian commute range if you aren't fit to walk you won't be able to use one of those (they got quite a stringy weight limit, and require quite a bit of effort to balance yourself on) anyhow. It's a bit funny to see fit and young hipsters pretty much using a 500$ mobility scooter...
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      A quick search resulted in one with a official speed of 8MPH, or about 12-13KMH.
  - dazc 11y ago
    In the UK they are allowed on some sidewalks (or pavements) and often have their own lanes. However, on most pavements it is still an offence but 'some' cyclists choose to overlook this point.
  - zyxley 11y ago
    Bicycles may not be allowed on the sidewalk, but you'll still see plenty of them on the sidewalk anywhere there aren't good, separated bike lanes.
- cstross 11y ago
  It's not practical to design everything in the world with the very slowest people in mind. The efficiency losses would be huge. Imagine if every pedestrian crossing light went for five minutes. Vehicular traffic would grind to a standstill. Actually, there was a study in the UK a couple of years ago that didn't get acted on, but which demonstrated that pedestrian crossing lights in British streets allowed so little time for crossing that able-bodied teenagers had to hurry -- middle-aged, elderly, unfit, or handicapped people really need about triple the time. The solution is probably a combination of the sensor-controlled systems showing up in newer crossings in the UK (IR sensors block traffic by setting a red light until the crossing is clear) and cutting down on automobile use in densely populated areas like urban cores. Ahem. (Hint: why should your one ton rolling steel status symbol trump anybody else's right to use the highway?)
  - bmsleight_ 11y ago
    The study was very flawed. The 85 percentile walking speed for pedestrians (1.2 m/s) is for when people start the crossing at the end of green man. So some 15 percent of the people are slower. However if youo take into account most people start crossing before the end of the green man, then the time is ample. "the sensor-controlled systems" - are hopelessly inefficient and actually confusing for pedestrians. A countdown which displays the time until the red-man is best for a balance of all users.
    - ciaranm 11y ago
      The green man is intended as a sign that it's safe to _begin_ crossing the road - at least in the UK. You'll notice that the man changes away from Green long before the light sequence. That's intended.
      - digi_owl 11y ago
        In various places the green man will start to blink when there is seconds left before it changes over.
      - Dylan16807 11y ago
- YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
  "The very slowest people" are actually the majority: the elderly, the very young, the temporarily or permanently disabled- if you put all of those people together they're many more than the young, strong and fast. What's more important, each and everyone of us, will inevitably, at some point in their lives be very young, elderly or disabled. In fact most of us will probably be each of those things during our lifetime. So it's not so much a matter of efficiency as accepting the fact that human beings are not born with wheels, but with feet and that they should always get priority, despite any misunderstandings about what the purpose of "efficiency" is in the first place.
  - wyager 11y ago
    >"The very slowest people" are actually the majority: the elderly, the very young, the temporarily or permanently disabled That is quite simply not true. http://www.censusscope.org/us/chart_age.html http://www.censusscope.org/us/chart_age.html As you can clearly see, most of the population falls in the age range that has no trouble walking at a reasonable speed. I don't have exact figures on how much of the population is disabled or seriously injured at any given time, but experience says it's not enough to make up for the fact that the very young and the very old are very very far from constituting a majority.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
      I'll qualify my comment: "the very slowest people" are the majority _in the developed world_ where the median age is 35+ (Wikipedia). It's also where people are the most likely to use hoverboards. In any case, you can dispute the numbers and it makes no difference. People are not born with wheels. We need space to walk about. By convention and by law, the pavement is not for vehicles. Despite that, I'm prepared to share the pavement with people on wheels but it has to be absolutely clear that it's not my responsibility to avoid them. It's theirs. They are the ones choosing to put me at risk, they should take full responsibility for it. And watch where the bloody heck they go.
- differentView 11y ago
  No one travelling on a sidewalk should go so fast that they are unable to avoid a stationary object. Edit: extra word
JulianMorrison 11y ago
May I suggest you use a hoverboard?
- hockeybias 11y ago
  really?...
- zyxley 11y ago
  I doubt having your back out is ideal condition for riding a device where you may have to hop a couple of steps to catch your step if you mess up anything.
nemo44x 11y ago
You shouldn't ever have to move out of someones way if they are not walking. I live in NYC so perhaps my perception is skewed but pedestrians should always have the right of way. Don't move for runners, bikes (shouldn't on sidewalks unless it's a kid) or these things. It's up to the user to manage themselves and prevent themselves from hitting and potentially hurting others. I see these around here and there, more and more, and don't mind them for now but if we start to get a problem with users hitting people then I'll support a sidewalk ban on them.
- zzleeper 11y ago
  Not so common in NYC because that would get you elbowed, but in many places people walk in pairs or larger groups which blocks up traffic. (EG When I'm biking on campus, sometimes I have to stop down completely because of 8+ students taking the entire sidewalk for them)
  - cheepin 11y ago
    Biking is supposed to be done on roads, not sidewalks.
    - dj_axl 11y ago
      I wish this were the law everywhere. It varies by jurisdiction. "Each city in California has its own rules about riding a bicycle on the sidewalk. Some cities allow sidewalk riding, some don’t. Check with your city’s municipal code." (http://la-bike.org/resources/california-bicycle-laws http://la-bike.org/resources/california-bicycle-laws)
    - nvarsj 11y ago
      That's quite a generalization. Assuming you mean where it is an offence to ride on the sidewalk, I'll always choose angry peds or a penalty over getting killed by a coffee-drinking, cell-phone talking urbanite in their range rover. Or non observant lorry driver. Or bus running a red light. Etc. Cycle a bit in a city and you'll change your view.
sixQuarks 11y ago
A bit off topic, but have you tried yoga to help your back problem? I've thrown my back out a couple of times and am in the process of integrating yoga into my daily routine, want to know how well it works (if it works).
- Afton 11y ago
  Not OP, but while I've had a lot of success, the evidence doesn't support blanket application of 'Yoga' to back pain. The real problem is that back pain typically goes away regardless of treatment modality, which leads to a lot of people who grab the last thing they tried as "the real thing that fixed my back".
  - sixQuarks 11y ago
    yeah, I realize it's not going to cure back pain, I just want it to improve my musculature. I think I keep pulling things because I'm at a computer all day and don't do a lot of movements/stretches.

wyager 11y ago

It's not practical to design everything in the world with the very slowest people in mind. The efficiency losses would be huge. Imagine if every pedestrian crossing light went for five minutes. Vehicular traffic would grind to a standstill. That said, I see no reason why the people riding these things couldn't just move around other people. I rarely have problems with people on bicycles, because we can mutually avoid each other.

omellet 11y ago
Bicycles aren't allowed on the sidewalk, either.
- atomicfiredoll 11y ago
  How fast do these go compared to a bicycle? I saw a few of them on the street and they didn't seem to be moving faster than a brisk walker. My impression was that bikes are generally banned because they move fast enough to cause serious injury yet are silent enough that pedestrians don't hear them coming.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    I've seen a few of these in London they aren't really faster than a fast walking speed which makes people who use them look very silly. They are quite often laughably used in shopping centers or and super markets mostly because allot of the pavements in London are horribly uneven which probably doesn't provide a very good surface for those. I've seen 2 guys on those things at Westfield last weekend arguing with a bunch of confused staff that didn't knew how to treat them. I don't really get this device it doesn't help you to commute any faster, it doesn't increase your pedestrian commute range if you aren't fit to walk you won't be able to use one of those (they got quite a stringy weight limit, and require quite a bit of effort to balance yourself on) anyhow. It's a bit funny to see fit and young hipsters pretty much using a 500$ mobility scooter...
  - digi_owl 11y ago
    A quick search resulted in one with a official speed of 8MPH, or about 12-13KMH.
- dazc 11y ago
  In the UK they are allowed on some sidewalks (or pavements) and often have their own lanes. However, on most pavements it is still an offence but 'some' cyclists choose to overlook this point.
- zyxley 11y ago
  Bicycles may not be allowed on the sidewalk, but you'll still see plenty of them on the sidewalk anywhere there aren't good, separated bike lanes.
cstross 11y ago
It's not practical to design everything in the world with the very slowest people in mind. The efficiency losses would be huge. Imagine if every pedestrian crossing light went for five minutes. Vehicular traffic would grind to a standstill. Actually, there was a study in the UK a couple of years ago that didn't get acted on, but which demonstrated that pedestrian crossing lights in British streets allowed so little time for crossing that able-bodied teenagers had to hurry -- middle-aged, elderly, unfit, or handicapped people really need about triple the time. The solution is probably a combination of the sensor-controlled systems showing up in newer crossings in the UK (IR sensors block traffic by setting a red light until the crossing is clear) and cutting down on automobile use in densely populated areas like urban cores. Ahem. (Hint: why should your one ton rolling steel status symbol trump anybody else's right to use the highway?)
- bmsleight_ 11y ago
  The study was very flawed. The 85 percentile walking speed for pedestrians (1.2 m/s) is for when people start the crossing at the end of green man. So some 15 percent of the people are slower. However if youo take into account most people start crossing before the end of the green man, then the time is ample. "the sensor-controlled systems" - are hopelessly inefficient and actually confusing for pedestrians. A countdown which displays the time until the red-man is best for a balance of all users.
  - ciaranm 11y ago
    The green man is intended as a sign that it's safe to _begin_ crossing the road - at least in the UK. You'll notice that the man changes away from Green long before the light sequence. That's intended.
    - digi_owl 11y ago
      In various places the green man will start to blink when there is seconds left before it changes over.
    - Dylan16807 11y ago
YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
"The very slowest people" are actually the majority: the elderly, the very young, the temporarily or permanently disabled- if you put all of those people together they're many more than the young, strong and fast. What's more important, each and everyone of us, will inevitably, at some point in their lives be very young, elderly or disabled. In fact most of us will probably be each of those things during our lifetime. So it's not so much a matter of efficiency as accepting the fact that human beings are not born with wheels, but with feet and that they should always get priority, despite any misunderstandings about what the purpose of "efficiency" is in the first place.
- wyager 11y ago
  >"The very slowest people" are actually the majority: the elderly, the very young, the temporarily or permanently disabled That is quite simply not true. http://www.censusscope.org/us/chart_age.html http://www.censusscope.org/us/chart_age.html As you can clearly see, most of the population falls in the age range that has no trouble walking at a reasonable speed. I don't have exact figures on how much of the population is disabled or seriously injured at any given time, but experience says it's not enough to make up for the fact that the very young and the very old are very very far from constituting a majority.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 11y ago
    I'll qualify my comment: "the very slowest people" are the majority _in the developed world_ where the median age is 35+ (Wikipedia). It's also where people are the most likely to use hoverboards. In any case, you can dispute the numbers and it makes no difference. People are not born with wheels. We need space to walk about. By convention and by law, the pavement is not for vehicles. Despite that, I'm prepared to share the pavement with people on wheels but it has to be absolutely clear that it's not my responsibility to avoid them. It's theirs. They are the ones choosing to put me at risk, they should take full responsibility for it. And watch where the bloody heck they go.
differentView 11y ago
No one travelling on a sidewalk should go so fast that they are unable to avoid a stationary object. Edit: extra word

JulianMorrison 11y ago

May I suggest you use a hoverboard?

hockeybias 11y ago
really?...
zyxley 11y ago
I doubt having your back out is ideal condition for riding a device where you may have to hop a couple of steps to catch your step if you mess up anything.

nemo44x 11y ago

You shouldn't ever have to move out of someones way if they are not walking. I live in NYC so perhaps my perception is skewed but pedestrians should always have the right of way. Don't move for runners, bikes (shouldn't on sidewalks unless it's a kid) or these things. It's up to the user to manage themselves and prevent themselves from hitting and potentially hurting others. I see these around here and there, more and more, and don't mind them for now but if we start to get a problem with users hitting people then I'll support a sidewalk ban on them.

zzleeper 11y ago
Not so common in NYC because that would get you elbowed, but in many places people walk in pairs or larger groups which blocks up traffic. (EG When I'm biking on campus, sometimes I have to stop down completely because of 8+ students taking the entire sidewalk for them)
- cheepin 11y ago
  Biking is supposed to be done on roads, not sidewalks.
  - dj_axl 11y ago
    I wish this were the law everywhere. It varies by jurisdiction. "Each city in California has its own rules about riding a bicycle on the sidewalk. Some cities allow sidewalk riding, some don’t. Check with your city’s municipal code." (http://la-bike.org/resources/california-bicycle-laws http://la-bike.org/resources/california-bicycle-laws)
  - nvarsj 11y ago
    That's quite a generalization. Assuming you mean where it is an offence to ride on the sidewalk, I'll always choose angry peds or a penalty over getting killed by a coffee-drinking, cell-phone talking urbanite in their range rover. Or non observant lorry driver. Or bus running a red light. Etc. Cycle a bit in a city and you'll change your view.

sixQuarks 11y ago

A bit off topic, but have you tried yoga to help your back problem? I've thrown my back out a couple of times and am in the process of integrating yoga into my daily routine, want to know how well it works (if it works).

Afton 11y ago
Not OP, but while I've had a lot of success, the evidence doesn't support blanket application of 'Yoga' to back pain. The real problem is that back pain typically goes away regardless of treatment modality, which leads to a lot of people who grab the last thing they tried as "the real thing that fixed my back".
- sixQuarks 11y ago
  yeah, I realize it's not going to cure back pain, I just want it to improve my musculature. I think I keep pulling things because I'm at a computer all day and don't do a lot of movements/stretches.