7 ms·

Cool! How come my house (and much of central london) is missing?

hanoz 11y ago
Sorry to hear about your house, my entire principality is missing, as the Welsh data is now looked after by the devolved equivalent agency, Natural Resources Wales. Happily it appears that's due to be released on November 2nd (http://naturalresources.wales/lidar?lang=en http://naturalresources.wales/lidar?lang=en) so hopefully I'll be able to incorporate that shortly after, depending on what it looks like. The current map is built with all the available DSM (Digital Surface Model) 1m resolution data. It appears the coverage is focused on coast and rivers, which makes sense in light of the Environment Agency's flooding remit. There's more coverage available to download at 2m (covering approximately half of the 1m gaps at a guess) and some small patches available at 50cm and 25cm resolutions.
- meigwilym 11y ago
  Looking forward to downloading this. By the way: Wales is a country, not a principality. /pedant
  - seanf 11y ago
    Ancient flamewar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Wales
    - mynameismonkey 11y ago
      Shwmae, (third?) Welshman checking in. The legal entity that was a Principality ended in 1542, but the P word has stuck over the centuries as a sort of colloquial reference, strongly enough that even ISO only got it right a few years ago. Some of us get offended by it, but mostly only when the Saxons next door use the term.
      - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
        Wales was annexed to England and then formally incorporated by the Laws in Wales Act, viz (quoting Wikipedia, apparently quoting the LiW Act 1535): >"That his said Country or Dominion of Wales shall be, stand and continue for ever from henceforth incorporated, united and annexed to and with this his Realm of England;" // So, yes, Wales ceased to be recognised as a principality and instead the lands that formed the area at the time called Wales were, according to Henry VIII, to be referred to only as England. Wasn't this also when English was established as the language to be used in legal proceedings? IIRC the Welsh Language Act 1993 was what changed this situation? I've yet to find definitive details of when Wales officially became a country. It's always struck me that prior to annexation it was only a loose confederation of principalities and that not all of what we now call "Wales" was not a part of the possessions of the English crown. It seems Wales, perhaps first defined by the invading Romans, was then created as an entity only by the English crown's definition of the area in which "Welsh" courts could act. Do you have any input on this?
        mynameismonkey 11y ago
        Well, I suppose we need to define country, nation, and state first. England annexed Wales, so there must have been a country to annex. Your quote lists Wales as a country. The nation, i.e. the peoples with a common language and culture and within some borders less than the Isle as a whole could I suppose be classified as forming a country post-Roman departure, until such a time as relatively stable borders could be recognised as the geographic borders of the country that nation inhabited, so 5th century? However, your two replies speak more to statehood/governance than nation, to me you're asking the question "when did Wales become a sovereign state" which is a very different question - and as I'm guessing you well know the UK is comprised of four countries, the UK being the sovereign state - none of the four countries are sovereign states unto themselves. > prior to annexation it was only a loose confederation of principalities Which I would classify as a country. The borders were stable-ish, as much as any were for their time, and the people shared a common tongue and culture. Subdividing a country doesn't negate country-hood, does it? The United States has powerful member states, and has accreted states along the way, with borders changing up until what, 1950 something? > I've yet to find definitive details of when Wales officially became a country. Supposing we could find an agreeable definition of "official", I'd be surprised if more than a few relatively recently formed countries can be held to the same standard. When did England become a country? When did China? "Official" recognition creates the need for another entity to be the one recognising. If we go by inclusion in ISO 3166 then I suppose Wales became a country in 2011. if we go by nationality, then one could argue it was a country pre-Roman invasion, and it has progressively shrunk its borders ever since. > It seems Wales, perhaps first defined by the invading Romans, was then created as an entity only by the English crown's definition of the area in which "Welsh" courts could act. Wales, as in, a collection of people sharing a language and customs, was clearly in place for the Romans to come along and see it. Unless we are getting into some metaphysical quantum country state where a country can only be a country once observed, it seems odd to say that the Romans could call it Wales, but the Welsh couldn't do so prior to the Romans turning up and having at it. As for creation by the English, again, the English annexed the country of Wales. The country was there for them to annex. Wales was not in some cat-in-the-box superposition waiting to be seen by hungry Anglo-Saxons. It existed, thus it was annexed. Regardless of its unified authority or lack thereof, a people inhabiting a space called that place home. Fomr your other reply: > When did it become a country? Or if you prefer more specificity: When did the region of land we today call "Wales" acquire any sort of significant unity of governance, as a totality, separate from England? So, the question is in fact: Wales was once a country, got gobbled up and is slowly regaining some independence. When did it become a country _again_? Is that roughly what you're saying? If so, most people would likely point to 1998's creation of a National Welsh Assembly for that one. The reason I think it is important to define the terms, is that while I - as a Welshman - wouldn't consider iron age Britain to be "Wales", I still recognise its ethnic importance on modern day Cymry. I'm no scholar, but given today's borders it's hard for me to not consider post-Roman Wales as the birth of the contemporary geographic and to some degree geopolitical country. So I suppose my answer is it became a country whenever people generally started calling it such, and it became a recognised state whenever some recognising entity recognised it as such.
  - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
    When did it become a country?
    - mynameismonkey 11y ago
      The two are not mutually exclusive. "Countries" can be all sorts of things, including Principalities, Monarchies, Republics. Luxembourg, the country, is also a Grand Duchy. Sounds pretty spiffy. But if the Grand Duke stops being in charge, Luxembourg remains a country, but no longer a Grand Duchy. Country is geography, governance is political. Wales, the country, ceased to be governed by princes in 1542.
      - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
        But Wales was just the region to the West that Rome conquered later because the 4 [or more] tribes there were protected by adverse geography [and because the region wasn't terribly useful]. Then some parts of what we call Wales were parts that the Vikings conquered, other parts stayed outside the English crown but continued to fight against one another, governed by various rulers (the principalities of Deheubarth, Gwynedd and such). The regions were subdued largely [but importantly not exclusively] by Llywelyn the Great, who then paid homage and fealty to - IIRC - King John. There was much rebellion, both against the ruling Welsh lords, eg of Gwynedd, and against the local powerhouse of the English Crown. Edward I conquered Gwynedd by bringing Llywelyn ap Gruffudd ("the Last") under his boot and so imposed the power that Gwynedd previously held over large swathes of [what we now call] Wales. Then the lands of "Wales" were annexed, this annexation taking various forms but certainly meaning that the lands of Great Britain to the West became a part of England (brought in to certainty by Henry VIII, whose ancestors were subordinates of the aforementioned rulers of Gwynedd). So yes, a country can be many things, but it seems it needs something more than just geographic locality to be worthy of calling a country: "Wales" which we now know is an amalgamation of counties of the English crown won over a period of a couple hundred years from various rulers. It's a country in the same way that "Wessex, Sussex, Kent and Wight" is a country, an arbitrary grouping of a largely historic county regions based on locality - actually that's got a greater claim to be a country as it's the historic Kingdom of Caedwalla whilst "Wales" seemingly was only united as an administrative regional grouping of counties whose lords had been brought under fealty of the King of England. Long before that it had lost any unity of identity when the Romans, "Irish", Vikings and others came and pushed around the Celtic and Britthonic speaking people's who'd been there prior to the CE. So I can accept Powys as a country, or Gwent, or Gwynedd, but Wales never really seems to have been a country until ... well I don't know, but I think since 1964?? The Acts of Union were between the countries of England and Scotland and Ireland. The Council of Wales, like the Council of the North, was abolished in the mid-17th Century in favour of direct government from London ... "the country of Wales" seems to be a pretty recent invention. Looking at the more recent history of the 'electoral regions of England known as Wales': the Eisteddfod is seen as long standing historic event that epitomises the independence of Wales as a nation but it dates from the later half of the 19th Century and the druidic pomp of the Gorsedd seemingly has no historical basis other than being the invention of a London based academic in 1792; hardly the pre-Roman druid roots that people imagine the Eisteddfod as having when they see the gowns, the throne, and the sword (eg http://www.museumwales.ac.uk/articles/2010-07-25/Scrolls-swords-and-mystic-marks/ http://www.museumwales.ac.uk/articles/2010-07-25/Scrolls-swo..., http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/ztbk87h http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/ztbk87h). Hence the question: When did it become a country? Or if you prefer more specificity: When did the region of land we today call "Wales" acquire any sort of significant unity of governance, as a totality, separate from England? [It's amazing how tribal reach thousands of years ago, eg of the Silures, brings to bear on the nature of nationhood today. As you perhaps can tell this is a subject I find quite fascinating, encompassing as it does so much of British history and modern politics within such a small question.]

hanoz 11y ago

Sorry to hear about your house, my entire principality is missing, as the Welsh data is now looked after by the devolved equivalent agency, Natural Resources Wales. Happily it appears that's due to be released on November 2nd (http://naturalresources.wales/lidar?lang=en http://naturalresources.wales/lidar?lang=en) so hopefully I'll be able to incorporate that shortly after, depending on what it looks like. The current map is built with all the available DSM (Digital Surface Model) 1m resolution data. It appears the coverage is focused on coast and rivers, which makes sense in light of the Environment Agency's flooding remit. There's more coverage available to download at 2m (covering approximately half of the 1m gaps at a guess) and some small patches available at 50cm and 25cm resolutions.

meigwilym 11y ago
Looking forward to downloading this. By the way: Wales is a country, not a principality. /pedant
- seanf 11y ago
  Ancient flamewar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Wales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Wales
  - mynameismonkey 11y ago
    Shwmae, (third?) Welshman checking in. The legal entity that was a Principality ended in 1542, but the P word has stuck over the centuries as a sort of colloquial reference, strongly enough that even ISO only got it right a few years ago. Some of us get offended by it, but mostly only when the Saxons next door use the term.
    - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
      Wales was annexed to England and then formally incorporated by the Laws in Wales Act, viz (quoting Wikipedia, apparently quoting the LiW Act 1535): >"That his said Country or Dominion of Wales shall be, stand and continue for ever from henceforth incorporated, united and annexed to and with this his Realm of England;" // So, yes, Wales ceased to be recognised as a principality and instead the lands that formed the area at the time called Wales were, according to Henry VIII, to be referred to only as England. Wasn't this also when English was established as the language to be used in legal proceedings? IIRC the Welsh Language Act 1993 was what changed this situation? I've yet to find definitive details of when Wales officially became a country. It's always struck me that prior to annexation it was only a loose confederation of principalities and that not all of what we now call "Wales" was not a part of the possessions of the English crown. It seems Wales, perhaps first defined by the invading Romans, was then created as an entity only by the English crown's definition of the area in which "Welsh" courts could act. Do you have any input on this?
      - mynameismonkey 11y ago
        Well, I suppose we need to define country, nation, and state first. England annexed Wales, so there must have been a country to annex. Your quote lists Wales as a country. The nation, i.e. the peoples with a common language and culture and within some borders less than the Isle as a whole could I suppose be classified as forming a country post-Roman departure, until such a time as relatively stable borders could be recognised as the geographic borders of the country that nation inhabited, so 5th century? However, your two replies speak more to statehood/governance than nation, to me you're asking the question "when did Wales become a sovereign state" which is a very different question - and as I'm guessing you well know the UK is comprised of four countries, the UK being the sovereign state - none of the four countries are sovereign states unto themselves. > prior to annexation it was only a loose confederation of principalities Which I would classify as a country. The borders were stable-ish, as much as any were for their time, and the people shared a common tongue and culture. Subdividing a country doesn't negate country-hood, does it? The United States has powerful member states, and has accreted states along the way, with borders changing up until what, 1950 something? > I've yet to find definitive details of when Wales officially became a country. Supposing we could find an agreeable definition of "official", I'd be surprised if more than a few relatively recently formed countries can be held to the same standard. When did England become a country? When did China? "Official" recognition creates the need for another entity to be the one recognising. If we go by inclusion in ISO 3166 then I suppose Wales became a country in 2011. if we go by nationality, then one could argue it was a country pre-Roman invasion, and it has progressively shrunk its borders ever since. > It seems Wales, perhaps first defined by the invading Romans, was then created as an entity only by the English crown's definition of the area in which "Welsh" courts could act. Wales, as in, a collection of people sharing a language and customs, was clearly in place for the Romans to come along and see it. Unless we are getting into some metaphysical quantum country state where a country can only be a country once observed, it seems odd to say that the Romans could call it Wales, but the Welsh couldn't do so prior to the Romans turning up and having at it. As for creation by the English, again, the English annexed the country of Wales. The country was there for them to annex. Wales was not in some cat-in-the-box superposition waiting to be seen by hungry Anglo-Saxons. It existed, thus it was annexed. Regardless of its unified authority or lack thereof, a people inhabiting a space called that place home. Fomr your other reply: > When did it become a country? Or if you prefer more specificity: When did the region of land we today call "Wales" acquire any sort of significant unity of governance, as a totality, separate from England? So, the question is in fact: Wales was once a country, got gobbled up and is slowly regaining some independence. When did it become a country _again_? Is that roughly what you're saying? If so, most people would likely point to 1998's creation of a National Welsh Assembly for that one. The reason I think it is important to define the terms, is that while I - as a Welshman - wouldn't consider iron age Britain to be "Wales", I still recognise its ethnic importance on modern day Cymry. I'm no scholar, but given today's borders it's hard for me to not consider post-Roman Wales as the birth of the contemporary geographic and to some degree geopolitical country. So I suppose my answer is it became a country whenever people generally started calling it such, and it became a recognised state whenever some recognising entity recognised it as such.
- pbhjpbhj 11y ago
  When did it become a country?
  - mynameismonkey 11y ago
    The two are not mutually exclusive. "Countries" can be all sorts of things, including Principalities, Monarchies, Republics. Luxembourg, the country, is also a Grand Duchy. Sounds pretty spiffy. But if the Grand Duke stops being in charge, Luxembourg remains a country, but no longer a Grand Duchy. Country is geography, governance is political. Wales, the country, ceased to be governed by princes in 1542.
    - pbhjpbhj 11y ago
      But Wales was just the region to the West that Rome conquered later because the 4 [or more] tribes there were protected by adverse geography [and because the region wasn't terribly useful]. Then some parts of what we call Wales were parts that the Vikings conquered, other parts stayed outside the English crown but continued to fight against one another, governed by various rulers (the principalities of Deheubarth, Gwynedd and such). The regions were subdued largely [but importantly not exclusively] by Llywelyn the Great, who then paid homage and fealty to - IIRC - King John. There was much rebellion, both against the ruling Welsh lords, eg of Gwynedd, and against the local powerhouse of the English Crown. Edward I conquered Gwynedd by bringing Llywelyn ap Gruffudd ("the Last") under his boot and so imposed the power that Gwynedd previously held over large swathes of [what we now call] Wales. Then the lands of "Wales" were annexed, this annexation taking various forms but certainly meaning that the lands of Great Britain to the West became a part of England (brought in to certainty by Henry VIII, whose ancestors were subordinates of the aforementioned rulers of Gwynedd). So yes, a country can be many things, but it seems it needs something more than just geographic locality to be worthy of calling a country: "Wales" which we now know is an amalgamation of counties of the English crown won over a period of a couple hundred years from various rulers. It's a country in the same way that "Wessex, Sussex, Kent and Wight" is a country, an arbitrary grouping of a largely historic county regions based on locality - actually that's got a greater claim to be a country as it's the historic Kingdom of Caedwalla whilst "Wales" seemingly was only united as an administrative regional grouping of counties whose lords had been brought under fealty of the King of England. Long before that it had lost any unity of identity when the Romans, "Irish", Vikings and others came and pushed around the Celtic and Britthonic speaking people's who'd been there prior to the CE. So I can accept Powys as a country, or Gwent, or Gwynedd, but Wales never really seems to have been a country until ... well I don't know, but I think since 1964?? The Acts of Union were between the countries of England and Scotland and Ireland. The Council of Wales, like the Council of the North, was abolished in the mid-17th Century in favour of direct government from London ... "the country of Wales" seems to be a pretty recent invention. Looking at the more recent history of the 'electoral regions of England known as Wales': the Eisteddfod is seen as long standing historic event that epitomises the independence of Wales as a nation but it dates from the later half of the 19th Century and the druidic pomp of the Gorsedd seemingly has no historical basis other than being the invention of a London based academic in 1792; hardly the pre-Roman druid roots that people imagine the Eisteddfod as having when they see the gowns, the throne, and the sword (eg http://www.museumwales.ac.uk/articles/2010-07-25/Scrolls-swords-and-mystic-marks/ http://www.museumwales.ac.uk/articles/2010-07-25/Scrolls-swo..., http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/ztbk87h http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/ztbk87h). Hence the question: When did it become a country? Or if you prefer more specificity: When did the region of land we today call "Wales" acquire any sort of significant unity of governance, as a totality, separate from England? [It's amazing how tribal reach thousands of years ago, eg of the Silures, brings to bear on the nature of nationhood today. As you perhaps can tell this is a subject I find quite fascinating, encompassing as it does so much of British history and modern politics within such a small question.]