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So I'm a similar situation except I'm hopelessly introverted. The idea of a bootcamp seems good to my parents, but to me it's just another word for school. At t

So I'm a similar situation except I'm hopelessly introverted. The idea of a bootcamp seems good to my parents, but to me it's just another word for school. At this point it would be easier to get a computer science degree than to do a bootcamp because doing work in groups is the first thing I check for on a syllabus before I drop a class. It sure looks good though, pay $15,000 for a 97% chance at getting a job. I just don't want to pay someone to teach me something I already know just to get a job. That's why I dropped out of college.

cwyers 11y ago
It's not like "group work" doesn't exist once you get to the working world.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- fivealarm 11y ago
  The group work required of students isn't even remotely representative of the type of collaborating that is required in the workplace. It's just a bullshit excuse to tick a box they know appeals to potential employers.
  - cwyers 11y ago
    I think it probably resembles the workplace about as much as anything about being a student resembles the workplace, which is to say, not much at all. But the original post was about not wanting to do a coding boot camp because of the personal interaction. And how he doesn't want to pay someone to teach him "something he already knows" to get a job. But a job is about a lot more than just technical proficiency, and it sounds like something is being... if not taught, at least tested for in these contexts that is also needed to succeed at working life for most people.
jokoon 11y ago
I really believe the person in the article is just strongly introverted, and that's it. School puts a lot of pressure into socializing students, without caring about individual sensitivities. I personally hate working with other people, and there are actually plenty of people who do. Learning is a tedious task, so I'll never understand why school must be social. There is always the same situation that occurs to me. Some guy just start talking to me while I'm doing something. I'm obviously uninterested in talking with the guy, and for some reason I'm the sociopathic weirdo. Interacting has become a standard, and those who fails to do so are quickly put away or seen at failing in society. I really believe that society can't tolerate outcasts. Society really feels like an army of acolytes who only hold social norms. Maybe it's the remnants of instituting civilization through religion, maybe that's why people can't behave without having a set of beliefs who don't have any ideas behind them.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  > "Some guy just start talking to me while I'm doing something." Have you tried the headphones trick? Works for me. You don't even have to be listening to music. > "Interacting has become a standard." Without putting too fine a point on it, it's always been the standard. You only exist now because your predecessors interacted. I hear you that there's a time and place for interaction, and you shouldn't feel pressured into engaging with others, and it's good to enjoy your own company, I frequently find that's what I enjoy the most too. However, if you label yourself as 'introvert' or 'extrovert' you limit your potential experiences, and I don't see the point in that.
  - jokoon 11y ago
    > You only exist now because your predecessors interacted. You mean sex ? I don't think you need to be social to see sex happening. > However, if you label yourself as 'introvert' or 'extrovert' you limit your potential experiences, and I don't see the point in that. Yeah, that's why introversion/extroversion is called a spectrum, even an introvert needs to be social once in a while. Also I'm sure introvert people have been kept away from being well integrated into society because there are much less communities of people living together, we all have our own kitchen and shower, which will inevitably isolate people won't don't seek social contact. The problem is that extroversion is rewarded, not introversion. It becomes a problem when you requires for degrees to include social interaction into group projects. That was my experience and it really marked how I failed at school, while I'm sure I'm more intelligent and capable than the average. The problem is the creation of a set of rules to put incentives on people to interact, instead of letting them interact naturally.
tashoecraft 11y ago
As someone who is currently finishing up Fullstack, you do have to work in groups but it isn't the bullshit you have to do in college. You pair program with different people each day to work through workshops. You work in groups on projects, but everyone pulls their weight and it isn't at all what I had experience in groups in college. If you don't know how to work in a group, then you don't know everything you need to get a job. Pairing and working on teams is going to be your life as a programmer, so you are going to need to learn it. If you are at all interested and it is something you can do I'd highly recommend applying. It will push you to work with people, but it is a supportive community that'll insure you do well.
- douche 11y ago
  People really pair program all day long? Gah, that sounds maddening and inefficient. I would probably lose my shit if I had to interact like that with someone every minute of the day. Sure, take a few minutes to look something over, talk over what the issue is, look at some data, decide what ought to be done, but then you've got to go do the work. I guess I'm like an old Apple II. I can have my Write_Code disk in, or I can have my Deal_With_People disk in, but I've only got one disk drive.

cwyers 11y ago

It's not like "group work" doesn't exist once you get to the working world.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
fivealarm 11y ago
The group work required of students isn't even remotely representative of the type of collaborating that is required in the workplace. It's just a bullshit excuse to tick a box they know appeals to potential employers.
- cwyers 11y ago
  I think it probably resembles the workplace about as much as anything about being a student resembles the workplace, which is to say, not much at all. But the original post was about not wanting to do a coding boot camp because of the personal interaction. And how he doesn't want to pay someone to teach him "something he already knows" to get a job. But a job is about a lot more than just technical proficiency, and it sounds like something is being... if not taught, at least tested for in these contexts that is also needed to succeed at working life for most people.

jokoon 11y ago

I really believe the person in the article is just strongly introverted, and that's it. School puts a lot of pressure into socializing students, without caring about individual sensitivities. I personally hate working with other people, and there are actually plenty of people who do. Learning is a tedious task, so I'll never understand why school must be social. There is always the same situation that occurs to me. Some guy just start talking to me while I'm doing something. I'm obviously uninterested in talking with the guy, and for some reason I'm the sociopathic weirdo. Interacting has become a standard, and those who fails to do so are quickly put away or seen at failing in society. I really believe that society can't tolerate outcasts. Society really feels like an army of acolytes who only hold social norms. Maybe it's the remnants of instituting civilization through religion, maybe that's why people can't behave without having a set of beliefs who don't have any ideas behind them.

ZenoArrow 11y ago
> "Some guy just start talking to me while I'm doing something." Have you tried the headphones trick? Works for me. You don't even have to be listening to music. > "Interacting has become a standard." Without putting too fine a point on it, it's always been the standard. You only exist now because your predecessors interacted. I hear you that there's a time and place for interaction, and you shouldn't feel pressured into engaging with others, and it's good to enjoy your own company, I frequently find that's what I enjoy the most too. However, if you label yourself as 'introvert' or 'extrovert' you limit your potential experiences, and I don't see the point in that.
- jokoon 11y ago
  > You only exist now because your predecessors interacted. You mean sex ? I don't think you need to be social to see sex happening. > However, if you label yourself as 'introvert' or 'extrovert' you limit your potential experiences, and I don't see the point in that. Yeah, that's why introversion/extroversion is called a spectrum, even an introvert needs to be social once in a while. Also I'm sure introvert people have been kept away from being well integrated into society because there are much less communities of people living together, we all have our own kitchen and shower, which will inevitably isolate people won't don't seek social contact. The problem is that extroversion is rewarded, not introversion. It becomes a problem when you requires for degrees to include social interaction into group projects. That was my experience and it really marked how I failed at school, while I'm sure I'm more intelligent and capable than the average. The problem is the creation of a set of rules to put incentives on people to interact, instead of letting them interact naturally.

tashoecraft 11y ago

As someone who is currently finishing up Fullstack, you do have to work in groups but it isn't the bullshit you have to do in college. You pair program with different people each day to work through workshops. You work in groups on projects, but everyone pulls their weight and it isn't at all what I had experience in groups in college. If you don't know how to work in a group, then you don't know everything you need to get a job. Pairing and working on teams is going to be your life as a programmer, so you are going to need to learn it. If you are at all interested and it is something you can do I'd highly recommend applying. It will push you to work with people, but it is a supportive community that'll insure you do well.

douche 11y ago
People really pair program all day long? Gah, that sounds maddening and inefficient. I would probably lose my shit if I had to interact like that with someone every minute of the day. Sure, take a few minutes to look something over, talk over what the issue is, look at some data, decide what ought to be done, but then you've got to go do the work. I guess I'm like an old Apple II. I can have my Write_Code disk in, or I can have my Deal_With_People disk in, but I've only got one disk drive.