5 ms·

Vim's default are indeed dumb, but what you described is not a vim-specific problem. Walk into any room full of coders and try to use their computers; you'll di

by kosma 11y ago

Vim's default are indeed dumb, but what you described is not a vim-specific problem. Walk into any room full of coders and try to use their computers; you'll discover tons of weirdness that can't be explained by anything except by a desire to be treated like a princess.* Things like rebinding basic shortcuts, reversing the scroll direction (Mac users will get this), swapping Cmd/Ctrl, using some obscure shell or even infecting other people's machines with some haphazardly scp'd dotfiles. This kind of overcustomization is fine if you live in a basement and work on a project alone. As soon as you become a part of a team, please stop. You're making cooperation unnecessarily hard and spending company time on an optimization that isn't. *I sometimes joke that coders who refuse to conform to the industry standards should wear a tiara as an indication they are, indeed, unique snowflakes free from the usual social expectations. It seems to work.

nothrabannosir 11y ago
Wait, am I missing something obvious here, or are you seriously complaining about people reversing the scroll direction on their own computers?
- 0942v8653 11y ago
  Apple reverses scrolling by default. I don't know about other coders' computers, but there are people who don't know how to change it, and whenever I boot into recovery mode it gets reversed.
  - bandrami 11y ago
    It's only "reversed" if you consider the other direction "normal". Either one makes sense: Mac acts like your finger is moving the page itself; X11 and Windows act like your finger is moving the location indicator on the scrollbar. Either one makes sense a priori, but once you're used to one the other becomes intolerable.
    - eru 11y ago
      Nah, I change back and forth between Mac and Linux. It's bearable.
    - chris_wot 11y ago
      Try using it Down Under...
- nocman 11y ago
  I'm actually glad this complaint was made. But only because I was unaware that you could change the scroll direction on a Mac. I will definitely be making that "overcustomization" on my Mac. :-D
nocman 11y ago
"Vim's default are indeed dumb, but what you described is not a vim-specific problem. Walk into any room full of coders and try to use their computers; you'll discover tons of weirdness that can't be explained by anything except by a desire to be treated like a princess." Yes, shame on those evil coders for wanting to use their own computers in a manner which they find most enjoyable and productive! They must be assimilated! Give me a break. "Things like rebinding basic shortcuts," Again, give me a break. Developers should be allowed to configure their individual machines in any way they wish. Different people work differently. "reversing the scroll direction (Mac users will get this)," When you've worked on platforms for decades where the scroll direction works one way, then end up on a platform where it is reversed, what is wrong with changing the new system to work the way you are used to? Yeah, I might decide to get used to the differences, or I might change it because I prefer it the old way, but who cares? "swapping Cmd/Ctrl," again, who cares -- it's their machine. "using some obscure shell" I also see no problem with this -- if they prefer it, just let them. "or even infecting other people's machines with some haphazardly scp'd dotfiles." This is a legitimate complaint, if the person is leaving stuff behind that screws up the other person's computer. But if the person is expected to work on other peoples machines, then I think a reasonable solution could be worked out. You should try to defer as much as reasonably possible to the person who the machine belongs to. On the other hand, if you are asking someone else to do work on your machine, it seems reasonable to let them copy some dotfiles in order to help them do the work -- as long as they don't affect your stuff. "This kind of overcustomization is fine if you live in a basement and work on a project alone." I don't buy the "overcustomization" label. Yes, it is possible to spend too much time customizing things (if, for example, it prevents you from getting your actual work done). However, programmers can make themselves much more efficient by many of these customizations. Different people have different ways of working, and they have different jobs. Vanilla configurations of things like editors are fine, but the ability to customize exists for a reason -- you can make your job easier and yourself more efficient by customizing your tools. "As soon as you become a part of a team, please stop. You're making cooperation unnecessarily hard and spending company time on an optimization that isn't." I've worked on many different development teams over the years. At all of those jobs, it was an extremely rare thing to even do development on someone elses computer. Everyone uses their own. "I sometimes joke that coders who refuse to conform to the industry standards should wear a tiara as an indication they are, indeed, unique snowflakes free from the usual social expectations. It seems to work." What "industry standards" are you referring to? Is there an ISO standard for vim keybindings? Please. Also, I don't think the whole "Princess" analogy is fair. Just because someone has their own way of working doesn't make them self-absorbed and shallow. (edited for better formatting)
scrollaway 11y ago
> that can't be explained by anything except by a desire to be treated like a princess Do you mean a desire to be more efficient? Am I some kind of princess because I decided to use a different keyboard layout than the default? That I decided to learn a different language than the one I was told to learn in school? That I wanted to install a different operating system than the one that came with my computer? Your comment is not just hostile, it is unbelievably pretentious. You quite clearly don't understand why people customize things. If you want to live in your undecorated, perfectly square single-room house you're welcome to do so without telling others they're not "part of the team" for having different preferences than you do. Damn...
- debaserab2 11y ago
  Glad someone had the same reaction I did. What's the value of conforming to a company standard when it makes you less efficient? Yeah, okay, chastise me and call me a princess - I'm going to go work somewhere else for someone who doesn't hold such a misguided set of principals and let's me work in my own best environment.
- ownagefool 11y ago
  You may personally be more efficient but as a team or class our overall efficiency drops by being different. Now I'd argue that the class is more important than you personally. We can agree that it matters a lot less what your own personal setup is as long as it saving stuff in the same format but I wouldn't say it doesn't matter at all. As soon as someone asks you for a bit of help you're going to be slowed down by understanding each other system. If we conformed, teaching a junior how to profile code will be easier than showing him how to do it with your vim setup, for example. Finally I'm never going to buy the efficiency of keyboard shortcuts when coding is generally worth the time sink in learning them over clicking a mouse in an IDE. Sure, they will make you faster, but I'd rather most people took longer and delivered solutions that weren't actually worse than the problem. All too often the quick people land me with stuff that pisses me off.
  - cma 11y ago
    It isn't just writing code faster, but also navigating (thus comprehending) faster, and in some cases writing code with less errors.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
krisdol 11y ago
Do you not have your own computer at work? Because that's what these ridiculous complaints sound like.
atmosx 11y ago
> This kind of overcustomization is fine if you live in a basement and work on a project alone. Hahahahaha! You trolling? I wonder, you work like 5 people on the same computer or something? And if 'yes', the OS doesn't support multiple users?! I don't wanna ruin a happy relationship or anything, but it's 2015... ;-)
oneJob 11y ago
* Regarding 'princess' dig, please see: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-prince...
- scrollaway 11y ago
  Is that article serious? I appreciate that GP's post is atrociously misguided but that article can't be serious can it? Are there really people out there who believe this? I had a look at this guy's other articles and it looks like the trashiest of linkbaits. "Reddit's Terrorists Have Won". "How MRAs Killed the World". "The Big Business of Internet Bigotry". Author might be overcompensating for something... Edit: Took a closer look at his articles. I generally appreciate opinion pieces, but this guy is either writing about women/feminists (neither of which he is), or about gamers (which he quite clearly isn't either), in a way that lets him just talk without the "threat" of opinions opposite to his own, which he heavily bashes. Wow. I need a shower after this.
  - Karunamon 11y ago
    Arthur Chu is a rather... special case. Stay far away from his Twitter if you value your sanity and faith in humanity.
    - scrollaway 11y ago
      I've never heard of him before today, FWIW, but you did get me to google his profile - what with your reverse psychology ;-) - and... well, it's not that bad. It's a pretty standard twitter profile for someone who thinks having 25k followers makes him the voice of god... but I've seen a lot worse on twitter than merely misguided people. Regardless, I genuinely don't understand the appeal of outrage-writing over subjects that simply do not concern you. For example, I'm straight but I'm also a proponent of gay rights - does that give me any right to speak "on behalf" of gays? Isn't the entire "I'm not [gay/black/a woman] but..." ideology of people stealing other people's voices exactly the reason some countries or communities have societal problems with various minorities?

by kosma 11y ago

nothrabannosir 11y ago

Wait, am I missing something obvious here, or are you seriously complaining about people reversing the scroll direction on their own computers?

0942v8653 11y ago
Apple reverses scrolling by default. I don't know about other coders' computers, but there are people who don't know how to change it, and whenever I boot into recovery mode it gets reversed.
- bandrami 11y ago
  It's only "reversed" if you consider the other direction "normal". Either one makes sense: Mac acts like your finger is moving the page itself; X11 and Windows act like your finger is moving the location indicator on the scrollbar. Either one makes sense a priori, but once you're used to one the other becomes intolerable.
  - eru 11y ago
    Nah, I change back and forth between Mac and Linux. It's bearable.
  - chris_wot 11y ago
    Try using it Down Under...
nocman 11y ago
I'm actually glad this complaint was made. But only because I was unaware that you could change the scroll direction on a Mac. I will definitely be making that "overcustomization" on my Mac. :-D

nocman 11y ago

"Vim's default are indeed dumb, but what you described is not a vim-specific problem. Walk into any room full of coders and try to use their computers; you'll discover tons of weirdness that can't be explained by anything except by a desire to be treated like a princess." Yes, shame on those evil coders for wanting to use their own computers in a manner which they find most enjoyable and productive! They must be assimilated! Give me a break. "Things like rebinding basic shortcuts," Again, give me a break. Developers should be allowed to configure their individual machines in any way they wish. Different people work differently. "reversing the scroll direction (Mac users will get this)," When you've worked on platforms for decades where the scroll direction works one way, then end up on a platform where it is reversed, what is wrong with changing the new system to work the way you are used to? Yeah, I might decide to get used to the differences, or I might change it because I prefer it the old way, but who cares? "swapping Cmd/Ctrl," again, who cares -- it's their machine. "using some obscure shell" I also see no problem with this -- if they prefer it, just let them. "or even infecting other people's machines with some haphazardly scp'd dotfiles." This is a legitimate complaint, if the person is leaving stuff behind that screws up the other person's computer. But if the person is expected to work on other peoples machines, then I think a reasonable solution could be worked out. You should try to defer as much as reasonably possible to the person who the machine belongs to. On the other hand, if you are asking someone else to do work on your machine, it seems reasonable to let them copy some dotfiles in order to help them do the work -- as long as they don't affect your stuff. "This kind of overcustomization is fine if you live in a basement and work on a project alone." I don't buy the "overcustomization" label. Yes, it is possible to spend too much time customizing things (if, for example, it prevents you from getting your actual work done). However, programmers can make themselves much more efficient by many of these customizations. Different people have different ways of working, and they have different jobs. Vanilla configurations of things like editors are fine, but the ability to customize exists for a reason -- you can make your job easier and yourself more efficient by customizing your tools. "As soon as you become a part of a team, please stop. You're making cooperation unnecessarily hard and spending company time on an optimization that isn't." I've worked on many different development teams over the years. At all of those jobs, it was an extremely rare thing to even do development on someone elses computer. Everyone uses their own. "I sometimes joke that coders who refuse to conform to the industry standards should wear a tiara as an indication they are, indeed, unique snowflakes free from the usual social expectations. It seems to work." What "industry standards" are you referring to? Is there an ISO standard for vim keybindings? Please. Also, I don't think the whole "Princess" analogy is fair. Just because someone has their own way of working doesn't make them self-absorbed and shallow. (edited for better formatting)

scrollaway 11y ago

> that can't be explained by anything except by a desire to be treated like a princess Do you mean a desire to be more efficient? Am I some kind of princess because I decided to use a different keyboard layout than the default? That I decided to learn a different language than the one I was told to learn in school? That I wanted to install a different operating system than the one that came with my computer? Your comment is not just hostile, it is unbelievably pretentious. You quite clearly don't understand why people customize things. If you want to live in your undecorated, perfectly square single-room house you're welcome to do so without telling others they're not "part of the team" for having different preferences than you do. Damn...

debaserab2 11y ago
Glad someone had the same reaction I did. What's the value of conforming to a company standard when it makes you less efficient? Yeah, okay, chastise me and call me a princess - I'm going to go work somewhere else for someone who doesn't hold such a misguided set of principals and let's me work in my own best environment.
ownagefool 11y ago
You may personally be more efficient but as a team or class our overall efficiency drops by being different. Now I'd argue that the class is more important than you personally. We can agree that it matters a lot less what your own personal setup is as long as it saving stuff in the same format but I wouldn't say it doesn't matter at all. As soon as someone asks you for a bit of help you're going to be slowed down by understanding each other system. If we conformed, teaching a junior how to profile code will be easier than showing him how to do it with your vim setup, for example. Finally I'm never going to buy the efficiency of keyboard shortcuts when coding is generally worth the time sink in learning them over clicking a mouse in an IDE. Sure, they will make you faster, but I'd rather most people took longer and delivered solutions that weren't actually worse than the problem. All too often the quick people land me with stuff that pisses me off.
- cma 11y ago
  It isn't just writing code faster, but also navigating (thus comprehending) faster, and in some cases writing code with less errors.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

krisdol 11y ago

Do you not have your own computer at work? Because that's what these ridiculous complaints sound like.

atmosx 11y ago

> This kind of overcustomization is fine if you live in a basement and work on a project alone. Hahahahaha! You trolling? I wonder, you work like 5 people on the same computer or something? And if 'yes', the OS doesn't support multiple users?! I don't wanna ruin a happy relationship or anything, but it's 2015... ;-)

oneJob 11y ago

* Regarding 'princess' dig, please see: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-prince...

scrollaway 11y ago
Is that article serious? I appreciate that GP's post is atrociously misguided but that article can't be serious can it? Are there really people out there who believe this? I had a look at this guy's other articles and it looks like the trashiest of linkbaits. "Reddit's Terrorists Have Won". "How MRAs Killed the World". "The Big Business of Internet Bigotry". Author might be overcompensating for something... Edit: Took a closer look at his articles. I generally appreciate opinion pieces, but this guy is either writing about women/feminists (neither of which he is), or about gamers (which he quite clearly isn't either), in a way that lets him just talk without the "threat" of opinions opposite to his own, which he heavily bashes. Wow. I need a shower after this.
- Karunamon 11y ago
  Arthur Chu is a rather... special case. Stay far away from his Twitter if you value your sanity and faith in humanity.
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    I've never heard of him before today, FWIW, but you did get me to google his profile - what with your reverse psychology ;-) - and... well, it's not that bad. It's a pretty standard twitter profile for someone who thinks having 25k followers makes him the voice of god... but I've seen a lot worse on twitter than merely misguided people. Regardless, I genuinely don't understand the appeal of outrage-writing over subjects that simply do not concern you. For example, I'm straight but I'm also a proponent of gay rights - does that give me any right to speak "on behalf" of gays? Isn't the entire "I'm not [gay/black/a woman] but..." ideology of people stealing other people's voices exactly the reason some countries or communities have societal problems with various minorities?