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That's not what High-Frequency Trading means. The terms for what what you describe are the more general "electronic trading" and "automated trading". They ena

by librvf 11y ago

That's not what High-Frequency Trading means. The terms for what what you describe are the more general "electronic trading" and "automated trading". They enable HFT, but are not HFT. High-Frequency Trading, while also an umbrella term, virtually always refers to a subset of algorithmic trading involving arbitrage over extremely short timeframes. HFT is not about being faster than "slow expensive humans" it's about being microseconds faster than other HFTs.

harryh 11y ago
I believe that you are making a distinction without a difference. Operating over extremely short timeframes is what allows electronic traders to provide such efficient pricing.
- librvf 11y ago
  The distinction I am making means everything. It enables "Latency Arbitrage." It allows HF traders to see trades that are about to happen before they actually happen and cut in front if it'll be profitable. http://blogmaverick.com/2014/04/03/the-idiots-guide-to-high-frequency-trading/ http://blogmaverick.com/2014/04/03/the-idiots-guide-to-high-...
  - harryh 11y ago
    That blog post does not accurately represent how markets work. It is not possible to see trades that are about to happen that have not happened yet just by being faster. You can react to past trades faster than someone else. But no matter how fast you react, it doesn't mean you can see the future.
    - librvf 11y ago
      We're getting off track. The point is that the value of HFT is disputed. You claimed HFT reduced buy/sell spreads by a factor of 10, which is obviously false once one distinguishes HFT and Electronic Trading in general. If you're unwilling to do anything but deny the difference between HFT and Electronic Trading there's no point in having a discussion about HFT's benefits.
      - harryh 11y ago
        No one (including you) has presented any meaningful distinction between HFT and Electronic Trading in general.
      - kasey_junk 11y ago
        For the record, I think the vast majority of people's arguments about HFT are simply about the definitions of what HFT is. It isn't clearly defined anywhere and the blog post you linked earlier certainly doesn't capture any definition I've seen used in the industry. In my experience though, electronic market making, which I regard as a very good thing, is a direct subset of HFT. To do it properly you must be fully automated, fast, across venue and trade alot. By nearly every definition I've seen that makes you HFT.
tomp 11y ago
> HFT is not about being faster than "slow expensive humans" it's about being microseconds faster than other HFTs. Now, HFTs are competing with other HFTs, but initially, they were competing with "slow expensive humans". The current situation only tells you how far we've progressed.

by librvf 11y ago

harryh 11y ago

I believe that you are making a distinction without a difference. Operating over extremely short timeframes is what allows electronic traders to provide such efficient pricing.

librvf 11y ago
The distinction I am making means everything. It enables "Latency Arbitrage." It allows HF traders to see trades that are about to happen before they actually happen and cut in front if it'll be profitable. http://blogmaverick.com/2014/04/03/the-idiots-guide-to-high-frequency-trading/ http://blogmaverick.com/2014/04/03/the-idiots-guide-to-high-...
- harryh 11y ago
  That blog post does not accurately represent how markets work. It is not possible to see trades that are about to happen that have not happened yet just by being faster. You can react to past trades faster than someone else. But no matter how fast you react, it doesn't mean you can see the future.
  - librvf 11y ago
    We're getting off track. The point is that the value of HFT is disputed. You claimed HFT reduced buy/sell spreads by a factor of 10, which is obviously false once one distinguishes HFT and Electronic Trading in general. If you're unwilling to do anything but deny the difference between HFT and Electronic Trading there's no point in having a discussion about HFT's benefits.
    - harryh 11y ago
      No one (including you) has presented any meaningful distinction between HFT and Electronic Trading in general.
    - kasey_junk 11y ago
      For the record, I think the vast majority of people's arguments about HFT are simply about the definitions of what HFT is. It isn't clearly defined anywhere and the blog post you linked earlier certainly doesn't capture any definition I've seen used in the industry. In my experience though, electronic market making, which I regard as a very good thing, is a direct subset of HFT. To do it properly you must be fully automated, fast, across venue and trade alot. By nearly every definition I've seen that makes you HFT.

tomp 11y ago

> HFT is not about being faster than "slow expensive humans" it's about being microseconds faster than other HFTs. Now, HFTs are competing with other HFTs, but initially, they were competing with "slow expensive humans". The current situation only tells you how far we've progressed.