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I know Uber has the dominate market share, but I really enjoy life. I notice that I get better, friendlier service from the drivers and I like having the option

I know Uber has the dominate market share, but I really enjoy life. I notice that I get better, friendlier service from the drivers and I like having the option to tip. They have rolled out a lot of impressive features and programs recently. I hope, at the very least, their actions will pressure Uber into some similar moves

usaphp 11y ago
Having an option to tip enforces customers to tip, I would prefer using a service that does not force me to tip by providing that option. I am against tips in general for drivers.
- mplewis 11y ago
  It does no such thing. Have you taken a Lyft? There's no obligation or even implication that you should tip.
  - mmanfrin 11y ago
    He's using 'enforce' to mean there is a social obligation to tip, not that it is required by the app.
    - chipgap98 11y ago
      Right but the tip is done long after the ride is over, so its not like a taxi driver where you are still in their presence when you make the decision to tip or not tip
- oxalo 11y ago
  I wonder if there's any data on accidents/ traffic violations between the two companies. Tips are supposed to be for better service, and with driving the only way to provide better service is to be faster. My hypothesis would be that in attempts to be faster, drivers may be driving more dangerously, thus increasing accidents and/or traffic violations.
  - mbillie1 11y ago
    > with driving the only way to provide better service is to be faster This isn't even close to the case - being friendly, having a clean and quiet vehicle, and providing a ride that is safe and not white-knuckle terrifying will all garner a lot more in tips from me than someone careening through traffic to save 30 seconds. I think your hypothesis is baseless.
    - eridius 11y ago
      Agreed. I nearly always tip with Lyft. One of the rare times I didn't was when a driver, in the interests of speed, decided to hit the gas and merge two lanes to the right without a turn signal, because he wanted to get ahead of the truck that was coming down the street. The other passenger (this was a Lyft Line) joked with him about how sometimes you just gotta drive like that. But that kind of driving not only ensured I didn't tip him, it also meant I gave him a bad rating and wrote some nasty feedback. I really don't appreciate having my safety compromised in the interests of saving 20 seconds.
  - openasocket 11y ago
    there's a balance there: people are less likely to tip if they are driving dangerously as well. Of course, this is all assuming people's tips are really based on better service. I'm sure tips are like that in some cases, but in general I think the customer's general mood and generosity are far bigger factors. Tips can be nice in certain situations, but I think people would prefer to just be paid more, so their income is stable and dependable.
  - SilasX 11y ago
    Semi relevant: New York City advises you to "tip your driver for safety and good service" [1]. Kinda scary that safety is some optional thing that you do for the prospect of a passenger noticing it and paying you more... [1] http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/taxicab_rate.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/taxicab_rate.shtm...
- alukima 11y ago
  I'm really glad that option is there. I had an emergency involving a seizing dog and a round trip to the vets office. The driver was incredible and would have gotten a whole $9 if I couldn't tip.
  - larrys 11y ago
    What would prevent you from just giving him some cash out of your physical wallet? In general you are getting a ride from someone. Other than the fact that with legacy taxis you tip, (just like at a restaurant) where it doesn't really relate to quality of service, I don't see how much extra someone can do that would make a ride tipworthy.
    - rodgerd 11y ago
      > What would prevent you from just giving him some cash out of your physical wallet? Perhaps this is just a difference depending on where you are in the world, but I'm not used to people in first world countries carrying cash.
      - simias 11y ago
        Uh, in which first world country exactly? I'm not aware of any place in western europe where carrying cash is uncommon.
        Widdershin 11y ago
        It's uncommon to carry cash in New Zealand. Everything is done with eftpos and credit cards.
        nathanb 11y ago
        Even more so with paywave, which is all over Australia and becoming more common in New Zealand. I don't think I actually inserted or swiped my card more than once a week in Brisbane.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Agreed. Driver's should be paid a real wage, which prevents the need for tipping.
- mmanfrin 11y ago
  I 100% agree. This is entirely the reason why I use Caviar over other food ordering services, since they do not offer a means of tipping and even say 'there is no need to tip', as the cost/fees in part go to the driver/delivery person.
  - 67726e 11y ago
    The fact that I have to tip is my big complaint with my local food delivery service. I'm already paying at least $6 for the delivery, possibly an added 20% of the check if it's not a "partner" restaurant yet I'm still expected to tip. They go so far as to say the whole "fee isn't a tip, so make sure to tip" like the chain pizza joints do. I really don't see why tipping is a thing when I'm explicitly paying for the service. I'm sure the owner is just using the cultural institution of tipping to avoid having to pay his employees.
- chipgap98 11y ago
  Does it enforce customers to tip? You tip via the app well after the ride is over. I usually don't tip, but occasionally I get a great driver and toss them a few bucks. They don't make great money so the tip is worth it. I'm not really sure why you are against tips for drivers.
  - mmanfrin 11y ago
    They don't make great money so the tip is worth it. This is the main issue for me. When tips are allowed, the floor for pay/remuneration drops. I would much prefer to know that people are paid sanely for the job they do than to know I am obligated to supplement their pay.
    - neeleshs 11y ago
      Absolutely agree with this point. I hear the same argument for restaurant waiters and I hate this tipping system that even has suggested tipping tiers. It only tells me that owners of these establishments are not paying their employees correctly. I know of places which don't even disburse the tips back to their employees (when tip is part of receipt)!
      - s73v3r 11y ago
        At least in CA, waiters still get full minimum wage.
    - bcassedy 11y ago
      We have direct evidence to the contrary. Uber disallows tipping and pays somewhat substantially less than Lyft. It's great that you want people to be paid sanely for the job they do, but the fact of the matter is people largely aren't in this industry. Uber doesn't allow tipping, and doesn't pay particularly well. After factoring in depreciation of their vehicle most drivers are going to be bringing in something like $10/hr. We live in a culture where businesses won't pay their employees sanely. Until that is fixed I want the ability to show my gratitude for a job well done with a tip. "Blah blah use cash!" Sure I can do that, but it's inconvenient for a number of reasons and the reality is that most people won't do it.
- forrestthewoods 11y ago
  I tipped a driver well because he went out of his way to come back to my home to return my cell phone I forgot in his. That took time and money out of his pocket. I could have tipped cash, but having it in app made it nice and easy.
- amyjess 11y ago
  I've heard stories of Uber drivers demanding cash tips out of customers and giving low ratings to any customers who decline (IIRC, Uber's TOS forbids this, but that's almost impossible to enforce). That doesn't happen with Lyft: because tipping is built into the app, nobody asks for cash. I don't carry cash, so I'd be screwed if I rode Uber and a driver threatened me with a 1-star rating if I didn't fork over cash.
  - FireBeyond 11y ago
    If you 1 starred the driver, and then complained to Uber, they'd be able to see the drivers rating as a retaliation.
  - matt_kantor 11y ago
    It's anecdote-vs-anecdote, but I use Uber often in the Bay Area and have never experienced nor heard of this. If a driver ever asked this of me I would give them a bad rating along with an explanation. I'd expect the driver to get canned pretty quickly if passengers report such behavior and passenger reputation to be restored if the drivers gave them 1-star ratings. As far as I understand it, driver reputation is far more important than passenger reputation (they certainly have a lot more to lose).
    - amyjess 11y ago
      That might work for the ones who are explicit about it, but there are also the subtler ones. Like the drivers who won't ask but will still give you a low rating if you don't offer a tip. And then you have the ones in the middle, who have tip jars sitting in the middle of their car. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/uber-driver-complaints-etiquette_55b7eaf7e4b0074ba5a69e69 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/uber-driver-complaints-e... Also, while you or I might complain, a lot of people are either too scared to speak up or just figure that a big company like Uber won't care, so this kind of stuff just goes unreported.
- Gorbzel 11y ago
  I hate to attack people on any forum, much less HN... but you are an ass. EDIT: Keep downvoting HN. The Mr. Pink act on the backs of low wage workers really gives the tech/entrepreneurship crowd a good look.
jacorreia 11y ago
The only party that benefits from tips is the employer (let's not go into the employee distinction right now though). It just shifts the responsibility to the customer to determine whether or not the employee should be paid for their work.
omm 11y ago
In NYC drivers may times work with both companies. My backseat survey had most drivers say Lyft riders tend to be more chatty and friendly, while Uber riders tend to be busy with their phone and not say much.
colmvp 11y ago
Unfortunately, I've had some pretty bad experiences. I used to love Lyft more than Uber but then the lack of professionalism over my last three times using it in SF have made me hesitant to ever recommend them again. First time around, the driver was completely incapable of finding me at SFO despite me following Lyft's text message instructions and communicating precisely which gate I was waiting at. Second time in downtown SF, the Lyft driver 'accepted' the ride only to basically never pick me up. Third time, same thing happened. And of course, there's that time when the driver almost ran someone over because they were focused on talking. Now, I don't see any difference between the two. I've definitely had less than stellar experiences with Uber but now I don't see any differences between the two.
mc32 11y ago
I'm the opposite. I want a known fee or fare. I don't want to have to think if I need to tip or not tip. Is the tip expected or is it optional gratitude for exceptional service? No, just tell me the amount. Most of the world works this way. Even in places where bribes are routine, there isn't as much tipping. Restaurants are moving away, slowly, from the tipping model, mostly due to increases in base wages, making it unpalatable for all but the rich, to pay a premium price and a tip on top of that. Pay your employees/contractors a fair wage and take responsibility for it, don't shift wage responsibility to the "fare" (paying passenger).
- vivekpreddy 11y ago
  I'm a heavy Lyft user, and I only tip when I have a particularly impressive ride (i.e. Driver goes above and beyond to be accommodating or I had a very insightful conversation). There is no expectation to tip, and I have never met a driver that's been offended with there being no tip. This with over 1k rides...
- misiti3780 11y ago
  "Restaurants are moving away, slowly, from the tipping model, mostly due to increases in base wages, making it unpalatable for all but the rich, to pay a premium price and a tip on top of that." they are ?
  - mc32 11y ago
    Yes, see for example: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6439290 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6439290
- learning_still 11y ago
  Although I agree when it comes to Uber. I mean, I don't need great service from my Uber driver, I just need them to get me from point A to point B. However, the restaurant service I've gotten in places outside the United States is just awful. It's 15-20 minutes before you'll see your server again, regardless of whether the place is busy or empty.
swagswag 11y ago
I enjoy life also.

usaphp 11y ago

Having an option to tip enforces customers to tip, I would prefer using a service that does not force me to tip by providing that option. I am against tips in general for drivers.

mplewis 11y ago
It does no such thing. Have you taken a Lyft? There's no obligation or even implication that you should tip.
- mmanfrin 11y ago
  He's using 'enforce' to mean there is a social obligation to tip, not that it is required by the app.
  - chipgap98 11y ago
    Right but the tip is done long after the ride is over, so its not like a taxi driver where you are still in their presence when you make the decision to tip or not tip
oxalo 11y ago
I wonder if there's any data on accidents/ traffic violations between the two companies. Tips are supposed to be for better service, and with driving the only way to provide better service is to be faster. My hypothesis would be that in attempts to be faster, drivers may be driving more dangerously, thus increasing accidents and/or traffic violations.
- mbillie1 11y ago
  > with driving the only way to provide better service is to be faster This isn't even close to the case - being friendly, having a clean and quiet vehicle, and providing a ride that is safe and not white-knuckle terrifying will all garner a lot more in tips from me than someone careening through traffic to save 30 seconds. I think your hypothesis is baseless.
  - eridius 11y ago
    Agreed. I nearly always tip with Lyft. One of the rare times I didn't was when a driver, in the interests of speed, decided to hit the gas and merge two lanes to the right without a turn signal, because he wanted to get ahead of the truck that was coming down the street. The other passenger (this was a Lyft Line) joked with him about how sometimes you just gotta drive like that. But that kind of driving not only ensured I didn't tip him, it also meant I gave him a bad rating and wrote some nasty feedback. I really don't appreciate having my safety compromised in the interests of saving 20 seconds.
- openasocket 11y ago
  there's a balance there: people are less likely to tip if they are driving dangerously as well. Of course, this is all assuming people's tips are really based on better service. I'm sure tips are like that in some cases, but in general I think the customer's general mood and generosity are far bigger factors. Tips can be nice in certain situations, but I think people would prefer to just be paid more, so their income is stable and dependable.
- SilasX 11y ago
  Semi relevant: New York City advises you to "tip your driver for safety and good service" [1]. Kinda scary that safety is some optional thing that you do for the prospect of a passenger noticing it and paying you more... [1] http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/taxicab_rate.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/taxicab_rate.shtm...
alukima 11y ago
I'm really glad that option is there. I had an emergency involving a seizing dog and a round trip to the vets office. The driver was incredible and would have gotten a whole $9 if I couldn't tip.
- larrys 11y ago
  What would prevent you from just giving him some cash out of your physical wallet? In general you are getting a ride from someone. Other than the fact that with legacy taxis you tip, (just like at a restaurant) where it doesn't really relate to quality of service, I don't see how much extra someone can do that would make a ride tipworthy.
  - rodgerd 11y ago
    > What would prevent you from just giving him some cash out of your physical wallet? Perhaps this is just a difference depending on where you are in the world, but I'm not used to people in first world countries carrying cash.
    - simias 11y ago
      Uh, in which first world country exactly? I'm not aware of any place in western europe where carrying cash is uncommon.
      - Widdershin 11y ago
        It's uncommon to carry cash in New Zealand. Everything is done with eftpos and credit cards.
        nathanb 11y ago
        Even more so with paywave, which is all over Australia and becoming more common in New Zealand. I don't think I actually inserted or swiped my card more than once a week in Brisbane.
toomuchtodo 11y ago
Agreed. Driver's should be paid a real wage, which prevents the need for tipping.
mmanfrin 11y ago
I 100% agree. This is entirely the reason why I use Caviar over other food ordering services, since they do not offer a means of tipping and even say 'there is no need to tip', as the cost/fees in part go to the driver/delivery person.
- 67726e 11y ago
  The fact that I have to tip is my big complaint with my local food delivery service. I'm already paying at least $6 for the delivery, possibly an added 20% of the check if it's not a "partner" restaurant yet I'm still expected to tip. They go so far as to say the whole "fee isn't a tip, so make sure to tip" like the chain pizza joints do. I really don't see why tipping is a thing when I'm explicitly paying for the service. I'm sure the owner is just using the cultural institution of tipping to avoid having to pay his employees.
chipgap98 11y ago
Does it enforce customers to tip? You tip via the app well after the ride is over. I usually don't tip, but occasionally I get a great driver and toss them a few bucks. They don't make great money so the tip is worth it. I'm not really sure why you are against tips for drivers.
- mmanfrin 11y ago
  They don't make great money so the tip is worth it. This is the main issue for me. When tips are allowed, the floor for pay/remuneration drops. I would much prefer to know that people are paid sanely for the job they do than to know I am obligated to supplement their pay.
  - neeleshs 11y ago
    Absolutely agree with this point. I hear the same argument for restaurant waiters and I hate this tipping system that even has suggested tipping tiers. It only tells me that owners of these establishments are not paying their employees correctly. I know of places which don't even disburse the tips back to their employees (when tip is part of receipt)!
    - s73v3r 11y ago
      At least in CA, waiters still get full minimum wage.
  - bcassedy 11y ago
    We have direct evidence to the contrary. Uber disallows tipping and pays somewhat substantially less than Lyft. It's great that you want people to be paid sanely for the job they do, but the fact of the matter is people largely aren't in this industry. Uber doesn't allow tipping, and doesn't pay particularly well. After factoring in depreciation of their vehicle most drivers are going to be bringing in something like $10/hr. We live in a culture where businesses won't pay their employees sanely. Until that is fixed I want the ability to show my gratitude for a job well done with a tip. "Blah blah use cash!" Sure I can do that, but it's inconvenient for a number of reasons and the reality is that most people won't do it.
forrestthewoods 11y ago
I tipped a driver well because he went out of his way to come back to my home to return my cell phone I forgot in his. That took time and money out of his pocket. I could have tipped cash, but having it in app made it nice and easy.
amyjess 11y ago
I've heard stories of Uber drivers demanding cash tips out of customers and giving low ratings to any customers who decline (IIRC, Uber's TOS forbids this, but that's almost impossible to enforce). That doesn't happen with Lyft: because tipping is built into the app, nobody asks for cash. I don't carry cash, so I'd be screwed if I rode Uber and a driver threatened me with a 1-star rating if I didn't fork over cash.
- FireBeyond 11y ago
  If you 1 starred the driver, and then complained to Uber, they'd be able to see the drivers rating as a retaliation.
- matt_kantor 11y ago
  It's anecdote-vs-anecdote, but I use Uber often in the Bay Area and have never experienced nor heard of this. If a driver ever asked this of me I would give them a bad rating along with an explanation. I'd expect the driver to get canned pretty quickly if passengers report such behavior and passenger reputation to be restored if the drivers gave them 1-star ratings. As far as I understand it, driver reputation is far more important than passenger reputation (they certainly have a lot more to lose).
  - amyjess 11y ago
    That might work for the ones who are explicit about it, but there are also the subtler ones. Like the drivers who won't ask but will still give you a low rating if you don't offer a tip. And then you have the ones in the middle, who have tip jars sitting in the middle of their car. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/uber-driver-complaints-etiquette_55b7eaf7e4b0074ba5a69e69 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/uber-driver-complaints-e... Also, while you or I might complain, a lot of people are either too scared to speak up or just figure that a big company like Uber won't care, so this kind of stuff just goes unreported.
Gorbzel 11y ago
I hate to attack people on any forum, much less HN... but you are an ass. EDIT: Keep downvoting HN. The Mr. Pink act on the backs of low wage workers really gives the tech/entrepreneurship crowd a good look.

jacorreia 11y ago

The only party that benefits from tips is the employer (let's not go into the employee distinction right now though). It just shifts the responsibility to the customer to determine whether or not the employee should be paid for their work.

omm 11y ago

In NYC drivers may times work with both companies. My backseat survey had most drivers say Lyft riders tend to be more chatty and friendly, while Uber riders tend to be busy with their phone and not say much.

colmvp 11y ago

Unfortunately, I've had some pretty bad experiences. I used to love Lyft more than Uber but then the lack of professionalism over my last three times using it in SF have made me hesitant to ever recommend them again. First time around, the driver was completely incapable of finding me at SFO despite me following Lyft's text message instructions and communicating precisely which gate I was waiting at. Second time in downtown SF, the Lyft driver 'accepted' the ride only to basically never pick me up. Third time, same thing happened. And of course, there's that time when the driver almost ran someone over because they were focused on talking. Now, I don't see any difference between the two. I've definitely had less than stellar experiences with Uber but now I don't see any differences between the two.

mc32 11y ago

I'm the opposite. I want a known fee or fare. I don't want to have to think if I need to tip or not tip. Is the tip expected or is it optional gratitude for exceptional service? No, just tell me the amount. Most of the world works this way. Even in places where bribes are routine, there isn't as much tipping. Restaurants are moving away, slowly, from the tipping model, mostly due to increases in base wages, making it unpalatable for all but the rich, to pay a premium price and a tip on top of that. Pay your employees/contractors a fair wage and take responsibility for it, don't shift wage responsibility to the "fare" (paying passenger).

vivekpreddy 11y ago
I'm a heavy Lyft user, and I only tip when I have a particularly impressive ride (i.e. Driver goes above and beyond to be accommodating or I had a very insightful conversation). There is no expectation to tip, and I have never met a driver that's been offended with there being no tip. This with over 1k rides...
misiti3780 11y ago
"Restaurants are moving away, slowly, from the tipping model, mostly due to increases in base wages, making it unpalatable for all but the rich, to pay a premium price and a tip on top of that." they are ?
- mc32 11y ago
  Yes, see for example: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6439290 http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6439290
learning_still 11y ago
Although I agree when it comes to Uber. I mean, I don't need great service from my Uber driver, I just need them to get me from point A to point B. However, the restaurant service I've gotten in places outside the United States is just awful. It's 15-20 minutes before you'll see your server again, regardless of whether the place is busy or empty.

swagswag 11y ago

I enjoy life also.