4 ms·

I don't think the NK comment was meant to equate Cuba and NK but rather to illustrate the fact that a country can have one or more internet connections and stil

I don't think the NK comment was meant to equate Cuba and NK but rather to illustrate the fact that a country can have one or more internet connections and still not be considered connected as a country. Your earlier comment claimed that the title was a misnomer because there was a connection established in the early 90s.

dalke 11y ago
It certainly was meant to equate aspects of Cuba and North Korea. The text "North Korea has also" is a direct comparison between the two countries, as is "Unlike NK, Cuba ...". I don't see how the comparison to North Korea is useful. For one, I've been distracted by the phrase 'connected to the Internet for a good long time'. I can find nothing to verify that statement, and I can't help but wonder if it's actually true. If Cuba has had 'public Internet for a long time', then how much longer has NK had internet access? Leave out the North Korea reference and the text becomes "Cuba may have had Internet for a good long time -- doesn't mean that more than a select few had any access". That's simpler, persuasive, and more obviously correct. Which makes me think there has to be a reason for mentioning North Korea in the first place, out of all the available possibilities.
- tlunter 11y ago
  I'd say the reason to mention NK was because I'm sure if you asked most people in the US and most of Europe, they'd say that NK likely doesn't have the internet. But it does. Just not available to the masses. Availability to the masses is the point of the headline here.
- adventured 11y ago
  I disagree. The North Korea comparison is extremely useful, seeing as Cuba and North Korea are among the third world nations with the least widespread public Internet connectivity over the last 20 years. They're also both ruled by Communist dictatorships and have been for many decades. They both have extraordinarily low median incomes, among the lowest on earth in fact. Cuba is better off than North Korea, that's well understood. Cuba should be equated to North Korea, for decades they've been in the same tier of economic development and the same tier of Internet access. The parent using Cuba as a reference makes perfect sense. What other nation would one compare Cuba to exactly? Where else do people earn $20 per month, have extremely limited access to the Internet, no freedom of speech or press, and live under a Communist dictatorship?
  - dalke 11y ago
    I would compare Cuba to Myanmar or Laos. I have difficulties accepting the meaningfulness of the statement "Cuba and North Korea are among the third world nations with the least widespread public Internet connectivity over the last 20 years". The list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of... puts Cuba at 73rd least, when ranked by percentage, out of 207 listed names. (Note: that list includes Non-country and disputed areas, like the U.S. Virgin Islands, which cannot properly be included in a first/third world comparison, and it excludes South Sudan and North Korea.) While I agree that Cuba is in the bottom half of third world nations, there are some 70+ other countries in the same category. Including Myanmar and Laos. (As a minor point, Cuba is technically a second world country under the original three world theory that introduce first- and third-world.) I was unable to confirm the statement 'extraordinarily low median incomes, among the lowest on earth in fact'. The lists at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PP... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28no... put Cuba about in the middle of the world's countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GNI_%28nominal,_Atlas_method%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GNI_%28no... puts Cuba in the "Upper-middle-income group" of countries. Compare this to North Korea, which is in the "Low-income group". Triple-checking, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev... puts Cuba in the 'Very high human development' category, while North Korea is in the 'Low human development' category along with Somalia and Tuvalu. How do you quantify 'same tier of economic development'? Cuba's biotech and tourism industries are obviously more developed than North Korea's. Everything I've found suggests that those two countries are not in the same economic tier. As an observation, North Korea no longer calls itself communist, and hasn't since 1992. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#cite_note-10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#cite_... . Its juche ideology does not appear to be based on socialist or Marxist-Leninist lines. Comparing Cuba's government to North Korea's is somewhat like comparing the US's multi-party representative democracy to Russia's. You asked "Where else do people earn $20 per month, have extremely limited access to the Internet, no freedom of speech or press, and live under a Communist dictatorship?" Laos. It is a "communist (Marxist-Leninist), socialist, single-party state" (quoting Wikipedia) just like Cuba. The per-capita GDP is $4,986/year while Cuba's is $18,796. (I can't find the median income for Laos, but it has "one of the lowest annual incomes in the world" (quoting Wikipedia) and below Cuba on the HDI.) 12.5% of the population of Laos are Internet users, compared to Cuba's 25%. Quoting https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2013/laos https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2013/laos : > Press freedom in Laos remains highly restricted. Despite advances in telecommunications infrastructure, government control of nearly all print and broadcast news prevents the development of a vibrant, independent press. ... Under the criminal code, individuals may be jailed for up to one year for reporting news that “weakens the state” or importing a publication that is “contrary to national culture.” Freedom House gave Laos a "Press Freedom Score" of 84, while Cuba's is 92. 100 is the worst.

dalke 11y ago

It certainly was meant to equate aspects of Cuba and North Korea. The text "North Korea has also" is a direct comparison between the two countries, as is "Unlike NK, Cuba ...". I don't see how the comparison to North Korea is useful. For one, I've been distracted by the phrase 'connected to the Internet for a good long time'. I can find nothing to verify that statement, and I can't help but wonder if it's actually true. If Cuba has had 'public Internet for a long time', then how much longer has NK had internet access? Leave out the North Korea reference and the text becomes "Cuba may have had Internet for a good long time -- doesn't mean that more than a select few had any access". That's simpler, persuasive, and more obviously correct. Which makes me think there has to be a reason for mentioning North Korea in the first place, out of all the available possibilities.

tlunter 11y ago
I'd say the reason to mention NK was because I'm sure if you asked most people in the US and most of Europe, they'd say that NK likely doesn't have the internet. But it does. Just not available to the masses. Availability to the masses is the point of the headline here.
adventured 11y ago
I disagree. The North Korea comparison is extremely useful, seeing as Cuba and North Korea are among the third world nations with the least widespread public Internet connectivity over the last 20 years. They're also both ruled by Communist dictatorships and have been for many decades. They both have extraordinarily low median incomes, among the lowest on earth in fact. Cuba is better off than North Korea, that's well understood. Cuba should be equated to North Korea, for decades they've been in the same tier of economic development and the same tier of Internet access. The parent using Cuba as a reference makes perfect sense. What other nation would one compare Cuba to exactly? Where else do people earn $20 per month, have extremely limited access to the Internet, no freedom of speech or press, and live under a Communist dictatorship?
- dalke 11y ago
  I would compare Cuba to Myanmar or Laos. I have difficulties accepting the meaningfulness of the statement "Cuba and North Korea are among the third world nations with the least widespread public Internet connectivity over the last 20 years". The list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of... puts Cuba at 73rd least, when ranked by percentage, out of 207 listed names. (Note: that list includes Non-country and disputed areas, like the U.S. Virgin Islands, which cannot properly be included in a first/third world comparison, and it excludes South Sudan and North Korea.) While I agree that Cuba is in the bottom half of third world nations, there are some 70+ other countries in the same category. Including Myanmar and Laos. (As a minor point, Cuba is technically a second world country under the original three world theory that introduce first- and third-world.) I was unable to confirm the statement 'extraordinarily low median incomes, among the lowest on earth in fact'. The lists at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PP... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28no... put Cuba about in the middle of the world's countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GNI_%28nominal,_Atlas_method%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GNI_%28no... puts Cuba in the "Upper-middle-income group" of countries. Compare this to North Korea, which is in the "Low-income group". Triple-checking, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev... puts Cuba in the 'Very high human development' category, while North Korea is in the 'Low human development' category along with Somalia and Tuvalu. How do you quantify 'same tier of economic development'? Cuba's biotech and tourism industries are obviously more developed than North Korea's. Everything I've found suggests that those two countries are not in the same economic tier. As an observation, North Korea no longer calls itself communist, and hasn't since 1992. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#cite_note-10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states#cite_... . Its juche ideology does not appear to be based on socialist or Marxist-Leninist lines. Comparing Cuba's government to North Korea's is somewhat like comparing the US's multi-party representative democracy to Russia's. You asked "Where else do people earn $20 per month, have extremely limited access to the Internet, no freedom of speech or press, and live under a Communist dictatorship?" Laos. It is a "communist (Marxist-Leninist), socialist, single-party state" (quoting Wikipedia) just like Cuba. The per-capita GDP is $4,986/year while Cuba's is $18,796. (I can't find the median income for Laos, but it has "one of the lowest annual incomes in the world" (quoting Wikipedia) and below Cuba on the HDI.) 12.5% of the population of Laos are Internet users, compared to Cuba's 25%. Quoting https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2013/laos https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2013/laos : > Press freedom in Laos remains highly restricted. Despite advances in telecommunications infrastructure, government control of nearly all print and broadcast news prevents the development of a vibrant, independent press. ... Under the criminal code, individuals may be jailed for up to one year for reporting news that “weakens the state” or importing a publication that is “contrary to national culture.” Freedom House gave Laos a "Press Freedom Score" of 84, while Cuba's is 92. 100 is the worst.