7 ms·

I honestly did not expect to see the day Perl 6 gets finished. This must have been one of the most difficult - if not the most difficult - births in the history

by krylon 11y ago

I honestly did not expect to see the day Perl 6 gets finished. This must have been one of the most difficult - if not the most difficult - births in the history of programming languages. At work, I have been using Perl 5 increasingly often over the past two years, mainly because handling unicode in Python 2 is not a lot of fun (and I still haven't come around to learning Python 3), and I have rediscovered why I used to like it so much. So far I have not looked into Perl 6 seriously, because I did not see the point to do so before it was finished. Guess I know now what I'll be doing this Christmas. :) Also, you gotta love Larry for quotes like this one: "This is why we say all languages are religious dialects of Perl 6..."

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
xlm1717 11y ago
I share the same sentiment. I am so glad to see it finally formally launched. Now, to dig in to Perl 6!
infofarmer 11y ago
Oh, it didn't get finished. Perl 6 is just getting started!
tcdent 11y ago
> I still haven't come around to learning Python 3 I'm not using it everyday yet either, but it's not a whole new language. More like just a few cleanups to sensitive portions of the API.
- mahouse 11y ago
  I would love to see a concise document with the differences.
  - 2g67vupsoknn 11y ago
    https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.0.html https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.0.html
  - tcdent 11y ago
    http://sebastianraschka.com/Articles/2014_python_2_3_key_diff.html http://sebastianraschka.com/Articles/2014_python_2_3_key_dif...
iamreverie 11y ago
same here, had to do a double take when i saw the headline in my email. it's been so long perl 6 has become somewhat of a running joke.
dtech 11y ago
If you haven't had the time to learn the transition from Python 2 to 3, don't expect to find time to transition from Perl 5 to 6. Perl 6 is orders of magnitude more different from Perl 5 than Python 3 is from Python 2.
- kamaal 11y ago
  Perl 6 is not different, its a new language. You don't transition from Perl 5 to Perl 6. You learn Perl 6 as a new language and use it. That's completely different compared to the case of Python, where Python 3 is a continuation from Python 2. But breaks backwards compatibility with the entire ecosystem. Bulk of the language remains same, you are migrating non backwards compatible parts.
andrepd 11y ago
What is there to learn about Python 3? It's just a relatively small, but backwards-compatibility breaking, update.
- blub 11y ago
  This: https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.0.html https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.0.html Doesn't look small and I already saw several things I was using that have changed behaviour. Someday I might even learn how to use them. :)
bootload 11y ago
"At work, I have been using Perl 5 increasingly often over the past two years, mainly because handling unicode in Python 2 is not a lot of fun (and I still haven't come around to learning Python 3)," Why?
- peteretep 11y ago
  From what he's saying, it's because of Perl 5's excellent Unicode support.
fibo 11y ago
You can build Perl6 and try it right now if you want, see my [early Perl 6](http://g14n.info/2015/03/early-perl6/ http://g14n.info/2015/03/early-perl6/) article for detailed building instructions.
- JoshMnem 11y ago
  Or use rakudobrew. http://codeselfstudy.com/wiki/Perl_6 http://codeselfstudy.com/wiki/Perl_6 I don't know Perl, but I saw the presentation and was blown away. Installed it today, and definitely will try building something with it soon.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- avar 11y ago
  These instructions show how to build the Rakudo 2015.03 release, 2015.09 is the current one.
  - JoshMnem 11y ago
    The link I posted should install the latest version. http://codeselfstudy.com/wiki/Perl_6 http://codeselfstudy.com/wiki/Perl_6
qdw 11y ago
Tiny correction: I heard it as "all languages are really just dialects of Perl 6," which makes a bit more sense in context. Either way it's a cute Wall witticism, of which there were many that night. Word has it that there will be a video in a couple of weeks, at which point you can judge for yourself!
ctolsen 11y ago
What's this deal with people having to learn Python 3? For most of the things you do there is literally no practical difference.
- yati 11y ago
  Exactly! The only real reason I was not using Python 3 was library support, but now things have changed: https://python3wos.appspot.com/ https://python3wos.appspot.com/
whyever 11y ago
Unfortunately unicode in Python 3 is not necessarily better. See http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/ http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/.
- raiph 11y ago
  Both Perl 5 and Python 3 are built with the assumption that a "character" is what the Unicode standard generally refers to as a "character". This is a serious problem and will I suspect one day be understood to be the biggest long-term mistake made when designing Python 3. I wrote a comment about this a few months back at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9791211 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9791211 (see second half of the initial comment and then the followups).
- jandrese 11y ago
  If you are anal about getting every edge case correct, Unicode is a straight up nightmare to support. Even in Perl's supposedly superior support has issues. See how deep the rabbit hole goes by reading the first response to the question here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6162484/why-does-modern-perl-avoid-utf-8-by-default https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6162484/why-does-modern-... There is really no way for a simple program to account for all of those possible edge cases. Something as simple as a print of a string can be a minefield depending on what is in those characters. And it's not like the old days where you could safely filter out all non-printable characters to avoid most problems. Have you considered how your formatting is going to look when people intersperse Right to Left words in your output for example?
  - bmn_ 11y ago
    > There is really no way for a simple program to account for all of those possible edge cases. The post to linked you contained a piece of boiler-plate code which accounts for said cases. > Have you considered how your formatting is going to look when people intersperse Right to Left words in your output for example? There are modules to handle this. It of course means that you have to stop using non-Unicode-aware functions like `sprintf`.
Grim_Reaper 11y ago
You will hate and forget Perl 6 If you read this blog -> elegantrant.wordpress.com

by krylon 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

xlm1717 11y ago

I share the same sentiment. I am so glad to see it finally formally launched. Now, to dig in to Perl 6!

infofarmer 11y ago

Oh, it didn't get finished. Perl 6 is just getting started!

tcdent 11y ago

> I still haven't come around to learning Python 3 I'm not using it everyday yet either, but it's not a whole new language. More like just a few cleanups to sensitive portions of the API.

mahouse 11y ago
I would love to see a concise document with the differences.
- 2g67vupsoknn 11y ago
  https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.0.html https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.0.html
- tcdent 11y ago
  http://sebastianraschka.com/Articles/2014_python_2_3_key_diff.html http://sebastianraschka.com/Articles/2014_python_2_3_key_dif...

iamreverie 11y ago

same here, had to do a double take when i saw the headline in my email. it's been so long perl 6 has become somewhat of a running joke.

dtech 11y ago

If you haven't had the time to learn the transition from Python 2 to 3, don't expect to find time to transition from Perl 5 to 6. Perl 6 is orders of magnitude more different from Perl 5 than Python 3 is from Python 2.

kamaal 11y ago
Perl 6 is not different, its a new language. You don't transition from Perl 5 to Perl 6. You learn Perl 6 as a new language and use it. That's completely different compared to the case of Python, where Python 3 is a continuation from Python 2. But breaks backwards compatibility with the entire ecosystem. Bulk of the language remains same, you are migrating non backwards compatible parts.

andrepd 11y ago

What is there to learn about Python 3? It's just a relatively small, but backwards-compatibility breaking, update.

blub 11y ago
This: https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.0.html https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.0.html Doesn't look small and I already saw several things I was using that have changed behaviour. Someday I might even learn how to use them. :)

bootload 11y ago

"At work, I have been using Perl 5 increasingly often over the past two years, mainly because handling unicode in Python 2 is not a lot of fun (and I still haven't come around to learning Python 3)," Why?

peteretep 11y ago
From what he's saying, it's because of Perl 5's excellent Unicode support.

fibo 11y ago

You can build Perl6 and try it right now if you want, see my [early Perl 6](http://g14n.info/2015/03/early-perl6/ http://g14n.info/2015/03/early-perl6/) article for detailed building instructions.

JoshMnem 11y ago
Or use rakudobrew. http://codeselfstudy.com/wiki/Perl_6 http://codeselfstudy.com/wiki/Perl_6 I don't know Perl, but I saw the presentation and was blown away. Installed it today, and definitely will try building something with it soon.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
avar 11y ago
These instructions show how to build the Rakudo 2015.03 release, 2015.09 is the current one.
- JoshMnem 11y ago
  The link I posted should install the latest version. http://codeselfstudy.com/wiki/Perl_6 http://codeselfstudy.com/wiki/Perl_6

qdw 11y ago

Tiny correction: I heard it as "all languages are really just dialects of Perl 6," which makes a bit more sense in context. Either way it's a cute Wall witticism, of which there were many that night. Word has it that there will be a video in a couple of weeks, at which point you can judge for yourself!

ctolsen 11y ago

What's this deal with people having to learn Python 3? For most of the things you do there is literally no practical difference.

yati 11y ago
Exactly! The only real reason I was not using Python 3 was library support, but now things have changed: https://python3wos.appspot.com/ https://python3wos.appspot.com/

whyever 11y ago

Unfortunately unicode in Python 3 is not necessarily better. See http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/ http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2014/5/12/everything-about-unicode/.

raiph 11y ago
Both Perl 5 and Python 3 are built with the assumption that a "character" is what the Unicode standard generally refers to as a "character". This is a serious problem and will I suspect one day be understood to be the biggest long-term mistake made when designing Python 3. I wrote a comment about this a few months back at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9791211 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9791211 (see second half of the initial comment and then the followups).
jandrese 11y ago
If you are anal about getting every edge case correct, Unicode is a straight up nightmare to support. Even in Perl's supposedly superior support has issues. See how deep the rabbit hole goes by reading the first response to the question here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6162484/why-does-modern-perl-avoid-utf-8-by-default https://stackoverflow.com/questions/6162484/why-does-modern-... There is really no way for a simple program to account for all of those possible edge cases. Something as simple as a print of a string can be a minefield depending on what is in those characters. And it's not like the old days where you could safely filter out all non-printable characters to avoid most problems. Have you considered how your formatting is going to look when people intersperse Right to Left words in your output for example?
- bmn_ 11y ago
  > There is really no way for a simple program to account for all of those possible edge cases. The post to linked you contained a piece of boiler-plate code which accounts for said cases. > Have you considered how your formatting is going to look when people intersperse Right to Left words in your output for example? There are modules to handle this. It of course means that you have to stop using non-Unicode-aware functions like `sprintf`.

Grim_Reaper 11y ago

You will hate and forget Perl 6 If you read this blog -> elegantrant.wordpress.com