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Motorists are using video cams to avoid disputed accident claims
- teraflop 11y agoSee also: https://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/
- erobbins 11y agoI've been driving with a camera for over a year now. While I haven't needed it for evidence of any sort, I do enjoy being able to create movies of enjoyable drives and idiot drivers from time to time :) I worry less about people in front of me doing idiotic things now. I know that even if there's an accident, I'll have proof that I (hopefully) wasn't to blame.
- mudil 11y agoWhat camera do you use? Any recommendations?
- erobbins 11y agoI got the transcend drivepro 200 with the suction mount. I picked it because the video quality day and night were rated near the top, and it has wifi so I can configure it/download videos easily from my phone. http://smile.amazon.com/Transcend-DrivePro-Recorder-Suction-TS16GDP200M/dp/B00VKNQ4EC http://smile.amazon.com/Transcend-DrivePro-Recorder-Suction-... I went all the way and hardwired it into the overhead console also, so it comes on/off with the car and there's no wire to attract attention :)
- bri3d 11y agoI like the G1W-C models for cheap and works, and the BlackVue DR* (I have a DR650-GW) models for "really nice." The BlackVue models have GPS, which is nice because it provides a speed readout overlaid on the video. They also have WiFi (mostly useless IMO) and run Linux, which means there are a few interesting hacks for them. Two often-overlooked things to look for are: * A capacitor for power-off storage (this is what keeps the camera on while the video is finalized and buffers flushed) instead of a LiPo, which is ill-suited to use in a hot, sunny area like the windshield. * A discrete design without flashy chrome bits and blinky lights everywhere. The last think you want is someone breaking in and stealing your dashcam itself.
- dsfyu404ed 11y agoI'd avoid anything with a speed written on the screen. I can't see an insurance company passing up the opportunity to screw you for going 5-over
- comrh 11y agoI'm pretty sure new cars are storing this information anyway.
- jessaustin 11y agoIf you have Progressive Snapshot or a similar device, that's storing driving data, but which cars do so by themselves?
- bri3d 11y agoAlmost all modern cars have an Event Data Recorder as part of the SRS/Airbag system which records snapshot data in the event of a deployment. Here are some NHTSA standards for EDR storage: http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Rulemaking/Rules/Associated%20Files/EDRFinalRule_Aug2006.pdf http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/NHTSA/Rulemaking/Rules/Associated%2... Here's a list of vehicles supported by one consultant's forensics software: http://www.rimkus.com/uploads/pdfs/Event_Data_Recorder.pdf http://www.rimkus.com/uploads/pdfs/Event_Data_Recorder.pdf
- dsfyu404ed 11y agoInsurance companies will need to jump though hoops to access that data in a fender bender where you still have possession of the vehicle. If you provide it (in a dash cam video that's evidence that you shouldn't pay) you're giving them an opportunity to deny the claim right there. There's also a lot of cases where traffic is doing 20-over and 20-25 over is criminal in most states
- jameshart 11y agospeed can probably be accurately inferred from video evidence anyway.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- maresca 11y agoIf I had the spare cash for 2 cams, I'd set them up on my motorcycle for insurance purposes. I've heard too many stories about motorcyclists getting hit and being blamed for the accidents. Or even worse, hit and runs. In the age of cell phones, distracted driving is the norm. I almost get hit by someone almost weekly. I really need some cameras soon :(
- dsfyu404ed 11y ago$50 cameras do the job well enough although they're probably not weatherproof enough for use a motorcycle with some sort of enclosure.
- soylentcola 11y agoI know a few people who use Mobius cameras or newer mini-cams on their helmets. They usually have some sort of snap-on or strap to hold them in place but also allow for removal if you get caught in the rain. Lower profile than strapping a GoPro to your head and cheaper too.
- 6stringmerc 11y agoDepending how long you ride for and how frequently, and if it's just for backup purposes, you could potentially use the Spy Gear Panosphere with a large MicroSD card. http://www.amazon.com/Spy-Gear-Panosphere-360-Degree-Cam/dp/B00E4H1586 http://www.amazon.com/Spy-Gear-Panosphere-360-Degree-Cam/dp/... I have two of them and while the native recording is very fish-eye, the software that comes with the unit functions fine in focusing on a specific point. With a 32 GB card and full charge, I think I've gotten about 45 minutes of recording. Might not be good for daily use, but for recreational outings it might be usable with some customization (e.g. super glue a mount to it). I've got one mounted on a swivel clip from a clip-on guitar tuner that broke and it's been a neat tool. Edit: Example footage of using the camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBpEGw3tTZ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBpEGw3tTZ8
- maresca 11y agoI'd imagine you'd want something good enough to be able to read license plates in case of a hit and run.
- 6stringmerc 11y agoHonest question: Has anybody used telemetry from a personal wearable device in the context of using it as proof of testimony, or something akin to that?
- scintill76 11y agoOn a related note, could this backfire if, e.g., you're compelled to give someone your video so they can make a case against you? In a criminal case an American could probably exercise the 5th amendment, but what about a civil case, or insurance claim?
- objclxt 11y agoThe 5th Amendment wouldn't apply. The 5th Amendment protects against self-incrimination, not incriminating evidence (like a video recording from you dash cam) except in very specific circumstances that aren't applicable here.
- 6stringmerc 11y agoI was wondering about that in a civil suit situation - so the court can compel the evidence be submitted?
- dogma1138 11y ago5th amendment for the most part covers only your testimony and pretty much what's in your head. Any physical evidence can be accessed through a search warrant, and in some cases if it's on your person (e.g. cell phones) without it. Not sure what's the case of a car, but as far as i know if the car is impounded everything in it is admissible evidence. If the car wasn't impounded then the court can order you to produce the recorded footage as evidence, if you refuse then you can be charged with contempt of court, and technically put in jail indefinitely until you comply.
- 6stringmerc 11y ago
- sirtastic 11y agoQuestion for those of you with dash cams: What do you use and why? Seems like a ton of options available. Some expensive and some not. Many features to consider like storage limits, power source, integrated rear-view cams, etc.
- petercooper 11y agoI use a standard Blackvue HD camera because it was recommended to me - the quality is high enough to make out details (like plates) and it has good low light performance. It works long enough to ensure if I have an accident I can pull the card out and be good to go (I don't need hours of recording, right?) It has front and back cameras, but I only use the front one as I'm too lazy to wire it in and assume 99% of likely trouble is at the front of the vehicle (yes, people can rear-end you, but in my country that person is almost automatically in the wrong).
- sirtastic 11y agoDo you just plug it in when you hop in the car or did you wire it yourself?
- benmanns 11y agoUsually dash cams come with a 12v/cigarette lighter charging cord. In my car, the 12v ports turn on and off when the car turns on and off. The cameras are designed to start up and start recording when they receive external power, and have small battery or capacitor that lets them save files and turn off when the external power source is turned off.
- sirtastic 11y agoMy car doesn't turn off my lighter port when car is turned off and I'm not sure I'll remember to unplug it every time I get out of my car which could result in a dead battery. :/
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- cpr 11y agoWow, we're becoming Russia! Seriously, the Russians have been doing this for years, for more or less the same reasons. This all suggests that the rule of law is tenuous and getting more so in the west.
- dalke 11y agoAn alternative possibility is that the prices are getting cheap enough to be cost effective for problems which have always existed; fraudulent claims, and ambiguity when settling insurance claims.
- o0-0o 11y agoAnything that reduces the need for lawyers is good with me!
- corysama 11y agoReportedly, fraudulent claims are so common in Russia that there are many video compilations of Russian pedestrians sprinting to ram themselves into slow-driving cars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSYT6V825gE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSYT6V825gE
- dalke 11y agoOr as this Economist article puts it, "Indeed, thousands of Russian videos of horrific crashes, remarkable near misses and blatant attempts at insurance fraud by drivers and pedestrians have become a staple on YouTube and other websites."
- 336f5 11y agoThat the Russians have been doing it for years and it's been so slow to catch on suggests the opposite, for the same reason that the increasing spread of autonomous cars is not a sign of the decay & fall of the West but its continued technological vitality.
- hkmurakami 11y agoSo that's why so many of the ridiculous on-road videos come from Russia...
- ConfuciusSay 11y agoThe Economist will be following up this exposé with another one next month showing how people use seat belts in cars so they avoid injuries.
- prdonahue 11y agoWould imagine one of the best use cases for these cameras is documenting any traffic stops by the (usually friendly) police department. Saw some 360' camera on YouTube the other day; anyone heard of/used that before?
- Cshelton 11y agoI don't see it being very long until all vehicles will be required to have a 'black-box' like aircraft. Basically, in the event of an accident that is serious, both black boxes from each vehicle can be submitted to ...somebody, and the the account of what happened will be recorded in perfect detail. This would probably be able to settle fault in a high percentage of cases. Now for the case of people jumping out in front of vehicles like they do in Russia...many vehicles will have cameras and lasers on board which will be used both as safety features (automatic collision avoidance) and autonomous driving. Every bit of data from these will also be recorded. There will come a point in the future, (< 10 years), where most vehicles on the road will have all of these features and disputed accident claims, fraud, people suing the driver after they intentionally jump in front of a vehicle, will all be the past. Data storage is cheap. It will also change all statistics about insurance and driving. New models will come about, including the insurance per mile, etc. And How much of the time is spent under fully autonomous driving versus driving yourself. If you are fully autonomous on most streets all the time, I can imagine a very low insurance premium.
- Someone1234 11y agoThis isn't as far as away as one might think. 2016 vehicles are already shipping either as options or as standard in some trims, safety features which can detect obstructions and take automated action (collision avoidance systems). Some are aimed only at detecting other vehicles ahead, but some are specifically designed to detect and avoid pedestrians/cyclists. These systems utilise lasers and cameras. They aren't currently being used as a black box but it is practically turn-key, no additional hardware would be required except maybe an SD card and encoder to add a built in car-cam. I agree that it may take ten years for this stuff to become standard in all new cars, but in the next two or three years if someone wants this in their new car they may very well be able to buy it. Toyota are adding many of these features to their 2016 cars as a $500 option (lane departure, collision avoidance, etc) on all trims as far as I know.