4 ms·

Friend worked at one of the US's biggest law firms clerking for a few years. He was there during one of the largest patent suits of all time, so they were billi

Friend worked at one of the US's biggest law firms clerking for a few years. He was there during one of the largest patent suits of all time, so they were billing an insane amount of hours (he was easily putting in 100 hour weeks the six months leading up to the trial). Anyways, case settles weeks before trial was supposed to start. Law firm gives everyone in the office a free two weeks off to unwind from such a massive stretch of work. He enjoyed the time off, with only one minor detour to the office for like 2-3 hours one day during the time off and almost everyone above him was there working. He asked his boss what was up and the guy basically said he had nothing better to do so he just decided to work during that stretch. I love working hard, I love being productive, but I really hope I'm never at a point in my life where I can't take two weeks off to enjoy doing something other than work. Of course I'm not inventing electric cars and space rockets, so there's that.

JTon 11y ago
Interesting anecdote. Reminds me of that expression that goes something like "If you choose a career in something you love, it no longer becomes work". Pretty sure I butchered that, perhaps someone can sweep in with the proper quote
- AndrewKemendo 11y ago
  "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life"
  - ChuckMcM 11y ago
    Interesting how this sometimes plays out though, a colleague of mine loves writing operating systems has found the number of people who want to do that steadily decreasing to the point where it becomes challenging to find paid work. I've suggested to him that the new "operating systems" are unikernels and microservices but he's been at it so long that he sees those as hosted applications rather than operating systems, and he has been at it so long, many of the views are ingrained deeply.
    - marssaxman 11y ago
      I ran into that problem with compiler development a few years back. I still love it and I'm still good at it, but there's nobody* left paying people to do it. The funny thing about the applications vs. operating systems idea is that I think you're both right. We're just shifting the system stack over by one level of abstraction while doing the same old things we've always done and always will do: the hypervisor is the new kernel, the virtual machine is the new process, and paravirtualized PCI devices are the new POSIX. (*I would have to be homeless and begging on the street before going back to Microsoft and Visual Studio would start to sound like a good idea, and Apple has become such a black hole that I have no idea whether they still employ compiler people or not.)
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - JTon 11y ago
    Thanks. Reading this quote and my original side by side makes me cringe. This is a great example of the importance of language and writing skills
- davito 11y ago
  Whichever way, we get the quote. The Butchered was a bit digestible
x5n1 11y ago
Imagine in 30 years when the tech they are working on is common. Or imagine Woz with the Apple II. Now looking back on it, did it really matter that you put in all your waking hours into making the Apple II? Does anyone really care?
- cec 11y ago
  I'm not sure if I can agree with that reasoning. Sure, no-one is impressed with an Apple II now, but that doesn't degrade how significant it was then. By that measure, did the Wright bothers really need to put in all of that time since today we have 747s?
- leonroy 11y ago
  Without it Apple arguably would not be around today. In any case the people who purchased it certainly did care. We all build upon what came before. It's hard to predict the outcome of the Apple II not existing but it would at the very least have changed the course of computing history if Apple were not around today.
- prodmerc 11y ago
  Wozniak? I believe he loved every minute of it - he said it himself, he loved just building stuff. The fact that many people benefited from his tinkering is just a byproduct...
tcdent 11y ago
Musk talks about that in the article: > “I have to say at times I’ve wondered,” Musk said with a laugh. “...I think there are certain important things that we must do in order for the future to be good." If he doesn't do it, who will?
- bra-ket 11y ago
  you
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- scott_karana 11y ago
  > If he doesn't do it, who will? I love this myth of the one-man army. Really, it's idolatry of single points of failure. Who would knowingly design infrastructure in the same way that these "hero CEOs" position themselves? SpaceX and Tesla employee 16,000 total humans, and talented ones at that. Does every single day really require Musk's visionary direction? Nobody else's will do?
  - scott_karana 11y ago
    And just like single points of failure in infrastructure, single points of executive failure can be good for startups. You can leverage your risk, and accomplish more in the short term, but long term, it's clearly not sustainable. Sounds like Musk needs to learn how to pivot into "big corporate". I don't think he ever has in the past, has he?
rebootthesystem 11y ago
The problem with the idea of working all the time becomes far more real once you have kids. You are doing real damage to your kids if you are not there for them as much as you are for your work. I am not saying this from a position of moral superiority, I have been guilty of this myself during a time when, for many years, if I was awake I was working. Ultimately a business failure forcefully knocked me out of that mode of operation. Being around a 3 and a 4 year old all day was, well, very weird. I eventually adjusted. Over time I came to understand just how valuable it is to have quality interactions with you kids. Life can't just be about work once you have kids. It doesn't matter if you enjoy the heck out of your work, you had kids and that is a responsibility you cannot outsource. After that experience my approach to work was far different. My businesses are very important to me but my family is always first.
- tajen 11y ago
  As a kid who grew up with an overworked dad, thank you. Well, thanks dad too for bringing enough money at home. But not having played ball at all before 6 made me a pretty isolated child, at an age where people socialize through sports. Not having much affective presence has been bad for my self-confidence, which is still a problem today. Not having enough discussion about dating girls made me isolated as a teenager and young adult. Sure that gave me plenty of time to succeed at school and I'm now sitting on a pile of money, which I can use to buy courses and any experience that I feel lacking. But there are some things that are just less painful to learn when we go through them with parents. I'm not a father and it is up to fathers to judge whether financial safety is more or less important than affection. But there are real, palatable, eventually financial, painful consequences from not spending time with your children, so much that spending time with children is often a pretty good thing to do.

JTon 11y ago

Interesting anecdote. Reminds me of that expression that goes something like "If you choose a career in something you love, it no longer becomes work". Pretty sure I butchered that, perhaps someone can sweep in with the proper quote

AndrewKemendo 11y ago
"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life"
- ChuckMcM 11y ago
  Interesting how this sometimes plays out though, a colleague of mine loves writing operating systems has found the number of people who want to do that steadily decreasing to the point where it becomes challenging to find paid work. I've suggested to him that the new "operating systems" are unikernels and microservices but he's been at it so long that he sees those as hosted applications rather than operating systems, and he has been at it so long, many of the views are ingrained deeply.
  - marssaxman 11y ago
    I ran into that problem with compiler development a few years back. I still love it and I'm still good at it, but there's nobody* left paying people to do it. The funny thing about the applications vs. operating systems idea is that I think you're both right. We're just shifting the system stack over by one level of abstraction while doing the same old things we've always done and always will do: the hypervisor is the new kernel, the virtual machine is the new process, and paravirtualized PCI devices are the new POSIX. (*I would have to be homeless and begging on the street before going back to Microsoft and Visual Studio would start to sound like a good idea, and Apple has become such a black hole that I have no idea whether they still employ compiler people or not.)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- JTon 11y ago
  Thanks. Reading this quote and my original side by side makes me cringe. This is a great example of the importance of language and writing skills
davito 11y ago
Whichever way, we get the quote. The Butchered was a bit digestible

x5n1 11y ago

Imagine in 30 years when the tech they are working on is common. Or imagine Woz with the Apple II. Now looking back on it, did it really matter that you put in all your waking hours into making the Apple II? Does anyone really care?

cec 11y ago
I'm not sure if I can agree with that reasoning. Sure, no-one is impressed with an Apple II now, but that doesn't degrade how significant it was then. By that measure, did the Wright bothers really need to put in all of that time since today we have 747s?
leonroy 11y ago
Without it Apple arguably would not be around today. In any case the people who purchased it certainly did care. We all build upon what came before. It's hard to predict the outcome of the Apple II not existing but it would at the very least have changed the course of computing history if Apple were not around today.
prodmerc 11y ago
Wozniak? I believe he loved every minute of it - he said it himself, he loved just building stuff. The fact that many people benefited from his tinkering is just a byproduct...

tcdent 11y ago

Musk talks about that in the article: > “I have to say at times I’ve wondered,” Musk said with a laugh. “...I think there are certain important things that we must do in order for the future to be good." If he doesn't do it, who will?

bra-ket 11y ago
you
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
scott_karana 11y ago
> If he doesn't do it, who will? I love this myth of the one-man army. Really, it's idolatry of single points of failure. Who would knowingly design infrastructure in the same way that these "hero CEOs" position themselves? SpaceX and Tesla employee 16,000 total humans, and talented ones at that. Does every single day really require Musk's visionary direction? Nobody else's will do?
- scott_karana 11y ago
  And just like single points of failure in infrastructure, single points of executive failure can be good for startups. You can leverage your risk, and accomplish more in the short term, but long term, it's clearly not sustainable. Sounds like Musk needs to learn how to pivot into "big corporate". I don't think he ever has in the past, has he?

rebootthesystem 11y ago

The problem with the idea of working all the time becomes far more real once you have kids. You are doing real damage to your kids if you are not there for them as much as you are for your work. I am not saying this from a position of moral superiority, I have been guilty of this myself during a time when, for many years, if I was awake I was working. Ultimately a business failure forcefully knocked me out of that mode of operation. Being around a 3 and a 4 year old all day was, well, very weird. I eventually adjusted. Over time I came to understand just how valuable it is to have quality interactions with you kids. Life can't just be about work once you have kids. It doesn't matter if you enjoy the heck out of your work, you had kids and that is a responsibility you cannot outsource. After that experience my approach to work was far different. My businesses are very important to me but my family is always first.

tajen 11y ago
As a kid who grew up with an overworked dad, thank you. Well, thanks dad too for bringing enough money at home. But not having played ball at all before 6 made me a pretty isolated child, at an age where people socialize through sports. Not having much affective presence has been bad for my self-confidence, which is still a problem today. Not having enough discussion about dating girls made me isolated as a teenager and young adult. Sure that gave me plenty of time to succeed at school and I'm now sitting on a pile of money, which I can use to buy courses and any experience that I feel lacking. But there are some things that are just less painful to learn when we go through them with parents. I'm not a father and it is up to fathers to judge whether financial safety is more or less important than affection. But there are real, palatable, eventually financial, painful consequences from not spending time with your children, so much that spending time with children is often a pretty good thing to do.