4 ms·

Woz' and Isaacson are pretty damn credible. If someone attacked Bill Gates for being a "bully' or a "jerk" it really wouldn't wash for his humanitarian achievem

Woz' and Isaacson are pretty damn credible. If someone attacked Bill Gates for being a "bully' or a "jerk" it really wouldn't wash for his humanitarian achievements from education, farming, immunizations, on ad infinitum would blow away any character criticisms. http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/General-Information/Foundation-Factsheet http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/General-Informatio... Steve Jobs' defenders on the other hand aren't bringing up many stellar character examples. This is a problem for a company that needs "demigod personality" as the face of their brand. Your milage may vary. (Edit typos and grammar corrected)

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- melling 11y ago
  I didn't downvote you but I would suggest providing links to support your claims.
- new299 11y ago
  I'd like to see a reference on the Oregon school forced to buy Windows licenses for Macs. But could only find references to Microsoft/BSA raids on school with legitimate licensing issues: http://www.salon.com/2001/07/10/microsoft_school/ http://www.salon.com/2001/07/10/microsoft_school/ (though the story is pretty bad)
adventured 11y ago
It's a challenging problem when you're diagnosed with a potentially terminal cancer at just 48 years of age. Do you spend what may be a short amount of time that you have left on trying to build a foundation to give your wealth away, or do you spend it doing what you enjoy most? Jobs gets viciously and unfairly criticized on this point. If other people ('normal people') choose to pursue what they want to with their remaining time in the face of such a diagnosis, few would dare criticize them. That becomes an even more important question when you realize that Jobs knew his wife would be fully capable of giving his wealth away after his passing. In the second half of his cancer battle, it was pretty obvious he was not going to survive longer term. So what do you do at 52 or 53 years of age, when it's apparent you're going to die? Do you spend years (which you may not have) trying to build a successful foundation? My personal opinion is that's an absurd premise. The reality is, we'll never know if Jobs would have become a successful philanthropist, or whether he would have focused on his work as Buffett has and leave the giving to eg his wife. If Bill Gates had been diagnosed with a terminal cancer at 48, and died in his early to mid 50s - it's likely his legacy would look a lot different too. When Gates was 48 in 2003, his public reputation was far different than it is today, he was openly reviled as an abusive monopolist and robber baron with a long reputation for having been mean and abusive to employees. It's Steve's vast billions that will be given away by Laurene, and he deserves a lot of credit for that, as much as someone like Warren Buffett does for the good his wealth will do. I don't see many examples of Jobs getting a comparable treatment versus what someone like Buffett does on this point however. edit: if you care to, feel free to explain why you disagree with me, assuming it's not just based on a reflexive need to bash Steve Jobs and not give him credit for any of the good his wealth will do and or has done (while someone like Buffett gets a lot of credit, while performing almost none of the actual philanthropic effort either)
- jack9 11y ago
  > he was openly reviled as an abusive monopolist and robber baron with a long reputation for having been mean and abusive to employees. For some people (like me), he isn't anything more. Jobs and Gates were both rather disruptive people. Gates held the entire computer industry back, technologically, and abused his employees to stash wealth. What he does with ill-gotten gains is well and good from an absolute standpoint (no eye toward history), but the damage he did on his watch, doesn't make up for the relatively short-term altruism he has shown. Saving 10 or 100k lives via water treatment and scholarships or sabotaging technological innovation for decades, is not equivalent to me. It's immoral for Gates to take from others so he could make the decision of where that time and to what end to spend some of his lifetime of hoarded wealth.
  - ised 11y ago
    "For some people..." I think there are a lot of people who share a similar perspective. For every Gates and Jobs, there are many other equally talented programmers and marketers who were not and will not be as lucky as these two. But if these other talented programmers and marketers conducted themselves in the manner of Gates and Jobs, would anyone forgive them? It's tempting to retort with some rhetorical rationale like "the ends justify the means," but then no one has any proof that behaving like Gates or Jobs has any causal link to the level of success they experienced. Microsoft and today's Apple are what they are. Some people love these companies' products. The word "cult" is sometimes used and people get quite defensive about their computer preferences, too. Effective marketing I guess. But not everyone has been so impressed. For people in the later group, there is little reason to celebrate Gates or Jobs, unless one is on the receiving end of some of their cash, whereby it can be put to beneficial use.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - RaleyField 11y ago
    > Gates held the entire computer industry back The industry does this job well by itself, I doubt things would be much different if Microsoft wasn't around. > What he does with ill-gotten gains Yet all transactions that contributed to his gains were voluntary.
setpatchaddress 11y ago
What company needs a demigod personality?
- ProAm 11y ago
  uber, apple, amazon, netflix, linkedin, Tesla/SpaceX.... to name few. (I dont think this is a bad thing for these companies FWIW, these companies need these types of people leading based on how the companies operate.)
- SCAQTony 11y ago
  Luxury brands demand iconic founders: Cartier, Versace, Tesla, Ralph Lauren et al. Laws of luxury branding from L2 Digital, Scott Galloway Professor NYU Stern: "...Apple: Apple has the pillars of a luxury brand: craftsmanship, an iconic founder, an exceptional price point, vertical control of distribution, globally recognizable, and with a self-expressive benefit. It’s on it way to becoming the world’s largest luxury brand with the help of former Burberry and YSL CEOs Angela Ahrendts and Paul Deneve. ..." http://www.l2inc.com/the-four-horsemen-amazonapplefacebook-google-who-winsloses/2015/blog http://www.l2inc.com/the-four-horsemen-amazonapplefacebook-g...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

melling 11y ago
I didn't downvote you but I would suggest providing links to support your claims.
new299 11y ago
I'd like to see a reference on the Oregon school forced to buy Windows licenses for Macs. But could only find references to Microsoft/BSA raids on school with legitimate licensing issues: http://www.salon.com/2001/07/10/microsoft_school/ http://www.salon.com/2001/07/10/microsoft_school/ (though the story is pretty bad)

adventured 11y ago

It's a challenging problem when you're diagnosed with a potentially terminal cancer at just 48 years of age. Do you spend what may be a short amount of time that you have left on trying to build a foundation to give your wealth away, or do you spend it doing what you enjoy most? Jobs gets viciously and unfairly criticized on this point. If other people ('normal people') choose to pursue what they want to with their remaining time in the face of such a diagnosis, few would dare criticize them. That becomes an even more important question when you realize that Jobs knew his wife would be fully capable of giving his wealth away after his passing. In the second half of his cancer battle, it was pretty obvious he was not going to survive longer term. So what do you do at 52 or 53 years of age, when it's apparent you're going to die? Do you spend years (which you may not have) trying to build a successful foundation? My personal opinion is that's an absurd premise. The reality is, we'll never know if Jobs would have become a successful philanthropist, or whether he would have focused on his work as Buffett has and leave the giving to eg his wife. If Bill Gates had been diagnosed with a terminal cancer at 48, and died in his early to mid 50s - it's likely his legacy would look a lot different too. When Gates was 48 in 2003, his public reputation was far different than it is today, he was openly reviled as an abusive monopolist and robber baron with a long reputation for having been mean and abusive to employees. It's Steve's vast billions that will be given away by Laurene, and he deserves a lot of credit for that, as much as someone like Warren Buffett does for the good his wealth will do. I don't see many examples of Jobs getting a comparable treatment versus what someone like Buffett does on this point however. edit: if you care to, feel free to explain why you disagree with me, assuming it's not just based on a reflexive need to bash Steve Jobs and not give him credit for any of the good his wealth will do and or has done (while someone like Buffett gets a lot of credit, while performing almost none of the actual philanthropic effort either)

jack9 11y ago
> he was openly reviled as an abusive monopolist and robber baron with a long reputation for having been mean and abusive to employees. For some people (like me), he isn't anything more. Jobs and Gates were both rather disruptive people. Gates held the entire computer industry back, technologically, and abused his employees to stash wealth. What he does with ill-gotten gains is well and good from an absolute standpoint (no eye toward history), but the damage he did on his watch, doesn't make up for the relatively short-term altruism he has shown. Saving 10 or 100k lives via water treatment and scholarships or sabotaging technological innovation for decades, is not equivalent to me. It's immoral for Gates to take from others so he could make the decision of where that time and to what end to spend some of his lifetime of hoarded wealth.
- ised 11y ago
  "For some people..." I think there are a lot of people who share a similar perspective. For every Gates and Jobs, there are many other equally talented programmers and marketers who were not and will not be as lucky as these two. But if these other talented programmers and marketers conducted themselves in the manner of Gates and Jobs, would anyone forgive them? It's tempting to retort with some rhetorical rationale like "the ends justify the means," but then no one has any proof that behaving like Gates or Jobs has any causal link to the level of success they experienced. Microsoft and today's Apple are what they are. Some people love these companies' products. The word "cult" is sometimes used and people get quite defensive about their computer preferences, too. Effective marketing I guess. But not everyone has been so impressed. For people in the later group, there is little reason to celebrate Gates or Jobs, unless one is on the receiving end of some of their cash, whereby it can be put to beneficial use.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- RaleyField 11y ago
  > Gates held the entire computer industry back The industry does this job well by itself, I doubt things would be much different if Microsoft wasn't around. > What he does with ill-gotten gains Yet all transactions that contributed to his gains were voluntary.

setpatchaddress 11y ago

What company needs a demigod personality?

ProAm 11y ago
uber, apple, amazon, netflix, linkedin, Tesla/SpaceX.... to name few. (I dont think this is a bad thing for these companies FWIW, these companies need these types of people leading based on how the companies operate.)
SCAQTony 11y ago
Luxury brands demand iconic founders: Cartier, Versace, Tesla, Ralph Lauren et al. Laws of luxury branding from L2 Digital, Scott Galloway Professor NYU Stern: "...Apple: Apple has the pillars of a luxury brand: craftsmanship, an iconic founder, an exceptional price point, vertical control of distribution, globally recognizable, and with a self-expressive benefit. It’s on it way to becoming the world’s largest luxury brand with the help of former Burberry and YSL CEOs Angela Ahrendts and Paul Deneve. ..." http://www.l2inc.com/the-four-horsemen-amazonapplefacebook-google-who-winsloses/2015/blog http://www.l2inc.com/the-four-horsemen-amazonapplefacebook-g...