4 ms·

32-bit kdb+ free for non-commercial use only

29 points by bladecatcher 11y ago

bladecatcher 11y ago
This is so disappointing! It was made free for commercial use last year, and was discussed on HN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7522327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7522327
vbezhenar 11y ago
> The free version has been a boon for many, but some are using it in ways it was not intended, and we felt Kx was exposing itself to a legal risk because the free version is unsupported. I wonder what do they mean? What's not intended way and what's a legal risk they are talking about? > HOWEVER, if you downloaded the free version of 32-bit kdb+ prior to September 13, 2015, you are free to use it for commercial use. I don't understand how someone can prove that he downloaded it prior to September 13. Those are extremely confusing terms.
- detaro 11y ago
  > I don't understand how someone can prove that he downloaded it prior to September 13. Probably by using a version that is old enough to be published then?
- sashk 11y ago
  Each version says which date it was released. KDB+ 3.1 2015.01.12 Copyright (C) 1993-2015 Kx Systems ... So if you have version dated 2015.09.13 (they released new build on that date) that means you have older version.
nickpsecurity 11y ago
This kind of BS is a perfect example of why, when pushing for proprietary OSS, I always note it will take special protections for users. Many might try to do OSS temporarily just to freeload on users for code or marketing. So, have to be clear + firm on use cases while including terms to ensure community's involvement will keep paying off. At least they're letting those who were involved keep the free copy. The QNX community situation was worse IIRC...
- beagle3 11y ago
  Note that kx software was never "libre" not "open source"; The binary was free for non-commercial use since forever with a built in expiration, which meant you had to download it again every three months and hope that they'll keep putting versions out; and at some point they removed the expiration and made it ok for commercial use. The recent announcement, if I understand it correctly, is that the "commercial use" clause is no longer part of the license for newer releases. (but, unlike the old days, versions do not expire every 3 months).
  - nickpsecurity 11y ago
    Oh yeah, it's definitely proprietary and closed. I just think it ties into the other topic where freeware (FOSS or not) can't be trusted unless it comes with protections for users that carry on into the future. That includes stuff like this and proprietary, open-source models. "(but, unlike the old days, versions do not expire every 3 months)." Definitely an improvement.
  - bbanyc 11y ago
    Do you know if the 2-hour timeout been brought back? That was almost as annoying as the expiration.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
sashk 11y ago
Unfortunately, their license comes in disagreement with what they posted on kxcommunity.com: > That's why it now can only be used in a commercial environment for development and proofs of concept. But license says: > 1.1. "Commercial Use" means any use of the 32 Bit Kdb+ Software for the User or any third party's financial gain or other economic benefit. Any Beta-testing or production use of a User Application is Commercial Use. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the following are not Commercial Uses: (a) use solely for educational or personal purposes; (b) use by a registered charity or licensed educational institution, (c) development of a proof-of-concept application, even in a commercial setting; and (d) any use for which Kx has granted the User written permission. This makes things confusing: one place they say development is ok, but in license agreement they say it's only "proof-of-concept applications"...
- btown 11y ago
  Together I would think they safely indicate an assumed narrow definition of "development" as "only used by the original coder in a non-moneymaking capacity." Which, realistically, is a level of use that wouldn't even come across Kx's radar - if it did, they'd much rather sell you the product than try to shut a potential client down.
bbanyc 11y ago
For what it's worth, most of kx's customers (including the one I work for) have datasets much larger than 4 GB, making the 32-bit edition practically worthless for production use.
lukaslalinsky 11y ago
I'm honestly surprised there are still people willing to trust their data to a "trial" version of a commercial database. I thought the FoundationDB situation was such a nice example that people would learn from it.
ilaksh 11y ago
https://github.com/kevinlawler/kona https://github.com/kevinlawler/kona

29 points by bladecatcher 11y ago

This is so disappointing! It was made free for commercial use last year, and was discussed on HN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7522327 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7522327

vbezhenar 11y ago

> The free version has been a boon for many, but some are using it in ways it was not intended, and we felt Kx was exposing itself to a legal risk because the free version is unsupported. I wonder what do they mean? What's not intended way and what's a legal risk they are talking about? > HOWEVER, if you downloaded the free version of 32-bit kdb+ prior to September 13, 2015, you are free to use it for commercial use. I don't understand how someone can prove that he downloaded it prior to September 13. Those are extremely confusing terms.

detaro 11y ago
> I don't understand how someone can prove that he downloaded it prior to September 13. Probably by using a version that is old enough to be published then?
sashk 11y ago
Each version says which date it was released. KDB+ 3.1 2015.01.12 Copyright (C) 1993-2015 Kx Systems ... So if you have version dated 2015.09.13 (they released new build on that date) that means you have older version.

nickpsecurity 11y ago

This kind of BS is a perfect example of why, when pushing for proprietary OSS, I always note it will take special protections for users. Many might try to do OSS temporarily just to freeload on users for code or marketing. So, have to be clear + firm on use cases while including terms to ensure community's involvement will keep paying off. At least they're letting those who were involved keep the free copy. The QNX community situation was worse IIRC...

beagle3 11y ago
Note that kx software was never "libre" not "open source"; The binary was free for non-commercial use since forever with a built in expiration, which meant you had to download it again every three months and hope that they'll keep putting versions out; and at some point they removed the expiration and made it ok for commercial use. The recent announcement, if I understand it correctly, is that the "commercial use" clause is no longer part of the license for newer releases. (but, unlike the old days, versions do not expire every 3 months).
- nickpsecurity 11y ago
  Oh yeah, it's definitely proprietary and closed. I just think it ties into the other topic where freeware (FOSS or not) can't be trusted unless it comes with protections for users that carry on into the future. That includes stuff like this and proprietary, open-source models. "(but, unlike the old days, versions do not expire every 3 months)." Definitely an improvement.
- bbanyc 11y ago
  Do you know if the 2-hour timeout been brought back? That was almost as annoying as the expiration.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

sashk 11y ago

Unfortunately, their license comes in disagreement with what they posted on kxcommunity.com: > That's why it now can only be used in a commercial environment for development and proofs of concept. But license says: > 1.1. "Commercial Use" means any use of the 32 Bit Kdb+ Software for the User or any third party's financial gain or other economic benefit. Any Beta-testing or production use of a User Application is Commercial Use. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the following are not Commercial Uses: (a) use solely for educational or personal purposes; (b) use by a registered charity or licensed educational institution, (c) development of a proof-of-concept application, even in a commercial setting; and (d) any use for which Kx has granted the User written permission. This makes things confusing: one place they say development is ok, but in license agreement they say it's only "proof-of-concept applications"...

btown 11y ago
Together I would think they safely indicate an assumed narrow definition of "development" as "only used by the original coder in a non-moneymaking capacity." Which, realistically, is a level of use that wouldn't even come across Kx's radar - if it did, they'd much rather sell you the product than try to shut a potential client down.

bbanyc 11y ago

For what it's worth, most of kx's customers (including the one I work for) have datasets much larger than 4 GB, making the 32-bit edition practically worthless for production use.

lukaslalinsky 11y ago

I'm honestly surprised there are still people willing to trust their data to a "trial" version of a commercial database. I thought the FoundationDB situation was such a nice example that people would learn from it.

ilaksh 11y ago

https://github.com/kevinlawler/kona https://github.com/kevinlawler/kona