5 ms·

Moving forward, can't we tax or ban styrofoam food containers, to encourage vendors to switch to paper and cardboard? Less nasty crap in our landfills, and les

Moving forward, can't we tax or ban styrofoam food containers, to encourage vendors to switch to paper and cardboard? Less nasty crap in our landfills, and less plastics in our food and hot drinks, too.

timdiggerm 11y ago
NYC considered it http://www.grubstreet.com/2015/09/new-york-judge-overturns-polystyrene-foam-ban.html http://www.grubstreet.com/2015/09/new-york-judge-overturns-p...
- duggieawesome 11y ago
  And the town of Brookline, MA has banned Styrofoam. http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/08/19/dunkin-donuts-introduces-paper-coffee-cups-brookline/yYwPbxr5DOFy0eifBZj7aM/story.html http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/08/19/dunkin-donuts...
ohitsdom 11y ago
Why do companies choose styrofoam anyway? Is it cheapest? Should be illegal based solely on the sound it makes when it rubs together.
- ssmoot 11y ago
  Your car probably has it (behind the bumper cover). Helmets have it. Your home may have it. It's light, it insulates, it absorbs the energy of impact (once at least). I don't know if there are effective, inexpensive substitutes for those uses.
  - freshyill 11y ago
    For some things, it's the best material. I don't think most reasonable people would say we should ban styrofoam when it's the best material in a safety application. For others, like food containers, it's almost purely for cost reasons when other solutions exist.
    - bdamm 11y ago
      Consider that if styrofoam cups were banned worldwide, then the cost of bicycle helmets would go down initially and then up later.
      - freshyill 11y ago
        That puts us one step closer to eliminating styrofoam in bicycle helmets. It may be that there are other very good or better materials that are currently too expensive, but whose prices could be brought down by widespread adoption.
        ssmoot 11y ago
        I'd be surprised. It's used in motorcycle helmets as well and there's definitely a market for pretty pricey motorcycle helmets if you could claim they were better in any marginal way.
      - lostlogin 11y ago
        I've seen popcorn used instead of styrofoam for packing fragile thing nhsbfor ahipping. However the idea of putting a bucket of popcorn on my head to ride a bike doesn't seem that good.
  - prolepunk 11y ago
    A complete idealist in me wishes that had we used appropriate material in the right places the world would have been much better place. Using styrofoam in helmets, car bumpers and refrigerators is a completely legitimate use case as it solves more problems than it creates, but using styrofoam in cups is just such a complete waste that only gives someone a tiny bit of convenience.
- ethagnawl 11y ago
  > Should be illegal based solely on the sound it makes when it rubs together. Lots of folks have been discussing, playing with (exploiting?), and researching [ASMR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_sensory_meridian_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_sensory_meridian_re...) over the last few years. However, I've yet to see any discussion about the possibility of a connection between ASMR and [misophonia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia). I experience both (your comment caused me to shudder) and have a hunch that they form a duality or, if the distinction isn't that clear, are related.
  - Rick-Butler 11y ago
    Thanks for the links, I too always shuddered at the sound (and thought). Never gave the "why" much consideration.
colechristensen 11y ago
Minneapolis did it this year. "An ordinance passed last year requires all food and beverages prepared for dine-in or take-out to be placed in reusable, recyclable or compostable packaging. That includes plates, serving boats and to-go containers -- cups and bowls have until April 22, 2017 to continue using non-recyclable plastic-lined paper. The ordinance includes all restaurants, food trucks, grocery store delis and other mobile or seasonal vendors." http://www.kare11.com/story/news/local/2015/04/22/minneapolis-styrofoam-ban-goes-into-effect-for-earth-day/26184727/ http://www.kare11.com/story/news/local/2015/04/22/minneapoli...
- SixSigma 11y ago
  But now they can cite this study and say Styrofoam is compostable.
hippich 11y ago
can't comment on why styrofoam is not banned, but paper doesn't break down as easy on landfills as you would expect, due compaction and lack of oxygen for microorganisms to exist.
- douche 11y ago
  It is a lot cleaner to burn, though. I dunno why we don't make better use of burnable waste materials to generate electricity, rather than sticking them in landfills. Emissions-wise, it is no more dirty than burning coal or other biomass products that we are already utilizing (I've seen the emissions numbers for a plant that once burned creosote-treated wood products, and has now switched to whole-tree chips). Storing a shovel-full of ash in the landfill is more efficient than storing the uncombusted products.
- prolepunk 11y ago
  Even sitting in a landfill paper still poses way fewer risks than styrofoam, as soon as it gets exposed to air it starts to break down, fish and birds don't usually eat it and when they do, paper doesn't stay in their guts forever.
Lewisham 11y ago
Santa Cruz, CA has banned it for at least the 7 years I've been here... Jamba Juice serves in paper cups instead. I see no practical difference between the paper and the styrofoam (except I hate the handfeel of styrofoam). It seems like companies have the processes in place to not use styrofoam if compelled to.
- hellcow 11y ago
  > I see no practical difference between the paper and the styrofoam Styrofoam provides much more insulation.
  - cpncrunch 11y ago
    I'm not sure if that's an issue. If you get a Tim Horton's tea in a paper cup, it's still scalding hot even after 10 mins (and it tastes like piss, so I wouldn't recommend it BTW). If you want your drink to be hot 2 hours later I'm not sure a styrofoam cup is going to do much better. You probably want to get them to put your drink into a travel mug.
    - ambicapter 11y ago
      No, insulation between your hand and the hot drink so you can hold it comfortably.
      - prolepunk 11y ago
        Coffee places usually give you cardboard sleeves where your palm goes, that help with insulation. If your hand is big enough and the cup is light enough you can support bottom of it with your pinky and the top of it with your thumb while horizontally balancing it with the rest of your fingers, you have three-finger redundancy if your coffee is too hot. The problem with the latter approach that little finger supports most of the weight of the cup and I can't hold more than a medium coffee.
  - Lewisham 11y ago
    The keyword here is practical :) In the time it takes me to drink my Jamba Juice, the melting aspect is impossible to differentiate.
jdeibele 11y ago
Portland banned it 26 years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/27/us/portland-ore-passes-a-ban-on-polystyrene-foam-items.html http://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/27/us/portland-ore-passes-a-b... When I travel it seems odd to see the trash cans overflowing with styrofoam. Back home in Portland, the trash cans are overflowing with other things.
brc 11y ago
I don't know if it's banned or just expensive where I live, but I haven't seen a styrofoam cup, container or packaging for a very long time. Everything is cardboard and paper wrappers. You can still by styrofoam disposable cups at the supermarket though, so maybe it's just a consumer based thing - consumers associate styrofoam packaging with cheap/nasty food.

timdiggerm 11y ago

NYC considered it http://www.grubstreet.com/2015/09/new-york-judge-overturns-polystyrene-foam-ban.html http://www.grubstreet.com/2015/09/new-york-judge-overturns-p...

duggieawesome 11y ago
And the town of Brookline, MA has banned Styrofoam. http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/08/19/dunkin-donuts-introduces-paper-coffee-cups-brookline/yYwPbxr5DOFy0eifBZj7aM/story.html http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2013/08/19/dunkin-donuts...

ohitsdom 11y ago

Why do companies choose styrofoam anyway? Is it cheapest? Should be illegal based solely on the sound it makes when it rubs together.

ssmoot 11y ago
Your car probably has it (behind the bumper cover). Helmets have it. Your home may have it. It's light, it insulates, it absorbs the energy of impact (once at least). I don't know if there are effective, inexpensive substitutes for those uses.
- freshyill 11y ago
  For some things, it's the best material. I don't think most reasonable people would say we should ban styrofoam when it's the best material in a safety application. For others, like food containers, it's almost purely for cost reasons when other solutions exist.
  - bdamm 11y ago
    Consider that if styrofoam cups were banned worldwide, then the cost of bicycle helmets would go down initially and then up later.
    - freshyill 11y ago
      That puts us one step closer to eliminating styrofoam in bicycle helmets. It may be that there are other very good or better materials that are currently too expensive, but whose prices could be brought down by widespread adoption.
      - ssmoot 11y ago
        I'd be surprised. It's used in motorcycle helmets as well and there's definitely a market for pretty pricey motorcycle helmets if you could claim they were better in any marginal way.
    - lostlogin 11y ago
      I've seen popcorn used instead of styrofoam for packing fragile thing nhsbfor ahipping. However the idea of putting a bucket of popcorn on my head to ride a bike doesn't seem that good.
- prolepunk 11y ago
  A complete idealist in me wishes that had we used appropriate material in the right places the world would have been much better place. Using styrofoam in helmets, car bumpers and refrigerators is a completely legitimate use case as it solves more problems than it creates, but using styrofoam in cups is just such a complete waste that only gives someone a tiny bit of convenience.
ethagnawl 11y ago
> Should be illegal based solely on the sound it makes when it rubs together. Lots of folks have been discussing, playing with (exploiting?), and researching [ASMR](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_sensory_meridian_response https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_sensory_meridian_re...) over the last few years. However, I've yet to see any discussion about the possibility of a connection between ASMR and [misophonia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misophonia). I experience both (your comment caused me to shudder) and have a hunch that they form a duality or, if the distinction isn't that clear, are related.
- Rick-Butler 11y ago
  Thanks for the links, I too always shuddered at the sound (and thought). Never gave the "why" much consideration.

colechristensen 11y ago

Minneapolis did it this year. "An ordinance passed last year requires all food and beverages prepared for dine-in or take-out to be placed in reusable, recyclable or compostable packaging. That includes plates, serving boats and to-go containers -- cups and bowls have until April 22, 2017 to continue using non-recyclable plastic-lined paper. The ordinance includes all restaurants, food trucks, grocery store delis and other mobile or seasonal vendors." http://www.kare11.com/story/news/local/2015/04/22/minneapolis-styrofoam-ban-goes-into-effect-for-earth-day/26184727/ http://www.kare11.com/story/news/local/2015/04/22/minneapoli...

SixSigma 11y ago
But now they can cite this study and say Styrofoam is compostable.

hippich 11y ago

can't comment on why styrofoam is not banned, but paper doesn't break down as easy on landfills as you would expect, due compaction and lack of oxygen for microorganisms to exist.

douche 11y ago
It is a lot cleaner to burn, though. I dunno why we don't make better use of burnable waste materials to generate electricity, rather than sticking them in landfills. Emissions-wise, it is no more dirty than burning coal or other biomass products that we are already utilizing (I've seen the emissions numbers for a plant that once burned creosote-treated wood products, and has now switched to whole-tree chips). Storing a shovel-full of ash in the landfill is more efficient than storing the uncombusted products.
prolepunk 11y ago
Even sitting in a landfill paper still poses way fewer risks than styrofoam, as soon as it gets exposed to air it starts to break down, fish and birds don't usually eat it and when they do, paper doesn't stay in their guts forever.

Lewisham 11y ago

Santa Cruz, CA has banned it for at least the 7 years I've been here... Jamba Juice serves in paper cups instead. I see no practical difference between the paper and the styrofoam (except I hate the handfeel of styrofoam). It seems like companies have the processes in place to not use styrofoam if compelled to.

hellcow 11y ago
> I see no practical difference between the paper and the styrofoam Styrofoam provides much more insulation.
- cpncrunch 11y ago
  I'm not sure if that's an issue. If you get a Tim Horton's tea in a paper cup, it's still scalding hot even after 10 mins (and it tastes like piss, so I wouldn't recommend it BTW). If you want your drink to be hot 2 hours later I'm not sure a styrofoam cup is going to do much better. You probably want to get them to put your drink into a travel mug.
  - ambicapter 11y ago
    No, insulation between your hand and the hot drink so you can hold it comfortably.
    - prolepunk 11y ago
      Coffee places usually give you cardboard sleeves where your palm goes, that help with insulation. If your hand is big enough and the cup is light enough you can support bottom of it with your pinky and the top of it with your thumb while horizontally balancing it with the rest of your fingers, you have three-finger redundancy if your coffee is too hot. The problem with the latter approach that little finger supports most of the weight of the cup and I can't hold more than a medium coffee.
- Lewisham 11y ago
  The keyword here is practical :) In the time it takes me to drink my Jamba Juice, the melting aspect is impossible to differentiate.

jdeibele 11y ago

Portland banned it 26 years ago. http://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/27/us/portland-ore-passes-a-ban-on-polystyrene-foam-items.html http://www.nytimes.com/1989/01/27/us/portland-ore-passes-a-b... When I travel it seems odd to see the trash cans overflowing with styrofoam. Back home in Portland, the trash cans are overflowing with other things.

brc 11y ago

I don't know if it's banned or just expensive where I live, but I haven't seen a styrofoam cup, container or packaging for a very long time. Everything is cardboard and paper wrappers. You can still by styrofoam disposable cups at the supermarket though, so maybe it's just a consumer based thing - consumers associate styrofoam packaging with cheap/nasty food.