8 ms·

How Steve Jobs Fleeced Carly Fiorina with HP iPod

133 points by steven 11y ago

Shivetya 11y ago
this week's political activity, discrediting Carly. Brought to you by all left leaning news sites, blogs, and now, Hacker's News. Really guys, the first three sentences should have made this tripe obvious. Expect submission after submission that are purely political hidden under techy click bait titles. We need a new flag, "political"
- DavidAdams 11y ago
  While it may be a hit piece, everyone at HN already thought that Carly Fiorina is a bad leader and that her tenure at HP should be hung like a millstone around her neck, not touted as her #1 qualification. Democrats can read this and feel smug about the Republican primary shitshow. Republicans can read this and feel consternation that such a bad candidate has been gaining credibility in the primary. I don't think this article is political. It's just anti-Fiorina. It's not making fun of people for supporting her. It's ringing an alarm bell for people outside of the tech world that Fiorina's signature achievement was tanking one of America's finest technology companies.
  - DonHopkins 11y ago
    Seriously, this. HP used to have such a sterling reputation of innovative engineering and high quality products. It's really sad what she did to it, and pathetic how defensive and delusional Republicans are about any criticism of her, no matter how valid and well substantiated by the facts. But when a political party has systematically driven away so many qualified women and minorities, they have to make do with the bottom-of-the-barrel dregs of token candidates that they have left, and pretend their naked emperors wear beautiful clothes. Republicans should spend their energy cleaning up their own act, rather than attacking people for criticizing it.
- DonHopkins 11y ago
  Are you suggesting she has any credibility at all to discredit?
- vdnkh 11y ago
  I dislike Carly but I agree with you. Liberal hand-wringing doesn't belong on HN.
  - sremani 11y ago
    This is not liberal handwringing, its is an analysis of a SV exec about the work she did in while in SV as CEO of HP.
- GabrielF00 11y ago
  Setting aside all the political stuff, it's hard to see how this deal made any sense for HP. Apple got better distribution for their iPods, kept a competitor out of the market, and got their software installed on a ton of Windows computers. What did HP get other than a few bucks per iPod+HP sold?
  - ansible 11y ago
    If its any consolation to the HP folks, Apple did something similar with Motorola. The MOTO ROKR was intentionally crippled, and designed to fail. It was merely created to delay Motorola entering the media business on their own. Not that they would have been any more successful than HP had they tried on their own...
- bitwize 11y ago
  Rational people tend to be progressive and "left leaning" (by American standards; by world standards this country is a right-wing powder keg). The sheer idiocy of the American right is certainly relevant to hackers as an interesting and difficult problem, just like the housing situation in San Francisco or that malaria and Alzheimer's continue to exist.
  - pauleastlund 11y ago
    I rarely take the time to comment on HN or submit content but I'm occasionally really tempted to earn enough karma that I can down-vote arrogant, condescending, asinine posts like this one. Neither side of the political spectrum has anything like a monopoly on "rational people" and "the sheer idiocy of [people who disagree with bitwize]" is not "relevant to hackers as an interesting and difficult problem."
    - hfourm 11y ago
      Well... I am not agreeing that his comment was a bit cray. But isn't it common knowledge that generally more educated areas of the country are also more "progressive/left leaning"? Obviously there are exceptions, but even an intelligent man can cling to the wrong idea ;)
    - 0xFFC 11y ago
      That is not true . At least in my experience . All the rational people I've ever met in my whole life was liberal and big chunk of them were disappointed in political system (which makes them out of spectrum in left side ). For example even Noam Chomsky (which is far left in today US definition) prefer Obama (despite he knows Obama is just another politician who work for wall street instead of people ,but at least he is not going to put country in danger) to some crazy person at the other hand. I was fairly disappointed when I saw that comment down voted in HN . And I am from other country , I can see (in compare to my country) how exactly Right wing using deceive people with its control over money/media. About the monopoly maybe your left wing is Clinton ( which don't have any monopoly on rational people , because all know she is clown of wall street) , but true left wing (like Lessig Lawrence / Bernie Sanders / etc ) completely have monopoly on rational people in compare to right side , specially academic people in human science branches.
- sremani 11y ago
  Ms.Fiorina not only acknowledges her association with Silicon Valley, but tauts it, while name dropping SVs and CEOs. So, if anyone discusses her CEO-ship under Microscope, it becomes a political hit piece? Of course, her current presidential run and doing good in polls is getting this kind of attention, but this is not a he said - she said. The body of work is already laid there and the article does narrate a sequence of events which demonstrates her last stint as an Executive.
rabino 11y ago
Oh my god the tone of the article is exasperating. We get it, you think she'd dumb or something, but you need to relax a bit.
- cylinder 11y ago
  Dumb, maybe, or maybe not, but she's definitely a lying sociopath, no history of successful leadership, doesn't answer questions, and yet thinks she can be President. I saw her on Meet the Press last week and I was genuinely afraid, creeped out even.
  - gadders 11y ago
    You equally apply that to Hilary.
  - iak8god 11y ago
    > a lying sociopath, no history of successful leadership, doesn't answer questions, and yet thinks she can be President 1. Not everyone currently running for president is doing so because they believe they actually have a chance of becoming president. 2. I wonder what percentage of people in the US believe that they personally would be a capable president? It's got to be 90%+
    - Someone1234 11y ago
      > Not everyone currently running for president is doing so because they believe they actually have a chance of becoming president. A lot of people seem to miss this key detail. These people have advisors, analysts, and so on. They know that their chance of winning is extremely slim. However they don't care because the entire point may be: - VP slot. - Increase public image in general (for future runs for house seats, book deals, TV appearances, speaking opportunities, etc). - Pushing a specific political agenda into the debates.
      - cylinder 11y ago
        And that's okay? They make a mockery of the Office when they treat candidacy as a PR platform. We shouldn't just accept that.
socrates1998 11y ago
The more I read about this woman, the worse it gets. She is sales. Not an engineer. Not a designer. Not even a good leader. The world needs salespeople for sure, but they are mostly sizzle and little steak. She will get shredded on the national stage, I think she is worse than Palin. At least Palin was a governor.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  No, Palin was a beauty contest winner that got elected Governor. She read People magazine when flying between political meetings. She had zero education/competence in the political arena. No policy education and no desire to learn. She was a zero with a big mouth.
  - ansible 11y ago
    I'd take Carly over Palin any day, though I dislike both. Carly would blunder around and be an ineffective president, but I was afraid Palin would start a war with Russia or something worse.
captn3m0 11y ago
The only reason I read through this piece was because its by Steven Levy. Not going to flag it, even though its highly political, because I'd never heard or known of the Apple/HP deal and it was still an interesting read.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
hapless 11y ago
Yes, this is incidentally a hit piece on Carly Fiorina, but the business analysis is quite entertaining Apple really took HP for a ride on the HP+iPod debacle. I didn't realize how badly. It's funny to look back.
guelo 11y ago
This is an interesting anecdote from the Steve Jobs era. HN normally eats this stuff up. No need to flag it just because it concerns a current Republican candidate.
- geofft 11y ago
  I'd have upvoted it if it weren't couched in politics. Even "How Ben Carson separated conjoined twins" is HN material. "How Ben Carson separated conjoined twins, and therefore he can separate Iran from their nukes" isn't.
- aetherson 11y ago
  My problem with it is that the author so clearly has an axe to grind about Fiorina that it makes me wonder whether the business analysis (which I agree is interesting) is the result of objective analysis or whether he went in looking to slam Fiorina as an idiot.
  - wl 11y ago
    People have had axes to grind against Fiorina because of her tenure at HP long before she decided to get into politics.
dandare 11y ago
I understand that foreseeing who will be a successful CEO is kind of holly grail of management theory, but how come so many incompetent managers keep ruining their companies for so long only to leave with golden parachutes?
maephet 11y ago
More importantly than 'crushing their innovation brand' (which seems like a small consequence), he headed off a potential competitor who might enter the personal device ring. Well done.
lisper 11y ago
A lot of negative comments on the grounds that this story is political and hence unsuitable for HN. I disagree. It's only the context (Fiorina is running for President) that makes it political. The story itself is mainly a post-mortem of a bad business decision, and is therefore IMHO entirely appropriate for HN, and would be even if Fiorina were not running for President.
- wdr1 11y ago
  The general story of HP, iPods & her role may be apolitical, but this specific article about it definitely wasn't. It clearly was written with a political axe to grind.
Someone1234 11y ago
> This was a highly strategic move to block HP/Compaq from installing Windows Media Store on their PCs. Uhh what? I can understand them wanting to get iTunes on OEM PCs, but I don't recall there ever being a standalone "Windows Media Store," and at the time Microsoft was already bundling Windows Media Player (which did contain a link to a store via the in-built browser) with Windows that this deal didn't do anything to stop... PS - That is a quote, but cannot source the quote, and no author is given either. May be fictional.
tdkl 11y ago
Wouldn't even know who she is weren't for this article : http://motherboard.vice.com/read/carly-fiorina-i-supplied-hp-servers-for-nsa-snooping http://motherboard.vice.com/read/carly-fiorina-i-supplied-hp... And a presidential candidate ? Wow.
joezydeco 11y ago
I still maintain the theory that iTunes for Windows enabled the explosive sales of the iPod and, by extension, the funds and momentum to develop the iPhone. So continuing with that logic, Fiorina can claim that the iPhone was the result of her deal with Apple.
- mrebus 11y ago
  Wasn't this by design. They always wanted the ipod to be cross platform. The ipod then became advertisement for Apple's laptops and pc's. I'd argue ipod/itunes drove mac sells and by the time the iphone came around Apple was respected by consumers as a legitimate consumer electronics company. I know I read or heard this from an apple source but I can't remember where.

133 points by steven 11y ago

this week's political activity, discrediting Carly. Brought to you by all left leaning news sites, blogs, and now, Hacker's News. Really guys, the first three sentences should have made this tripe obvious. Expect submission after submission that are purely political hidden under techy click bait titles. We need a new flag, "political"

DavidAdams 11y ago
While it may be a hit piece, everyone at HN already thought that Carly Fiorina is a bad leader and that her tenure at HP should be hung like a millstone around her neck, not touted as her #1 qualification. Democrats can read this and feel smug about the Republican primary shitshow. Republicans can read this and feel consternation that such a bad candidate has been gaining credibility in the primary. I don't think this article is political. It's just anti-Fiorina. It's not making fun of people for supporting her. It's ringing an alarm bell for people outside of the tech world that Fiorina's signature achievement was tanking one of America's finest technology companies.
- DonHopkins 11y ago
  Seriously, this. HP used to have such a sterling reputation of innovative engineering and high quality products. It's really sad what she did to it, and pathetic how defensive and delusional Republicans are about any criticism of her, no matter how valid and well substantiated by the facts. But when a political party has systematically driven away so many qualified women and minorities, they have to make do with the bottom-of-the-barrel dregs of token candidates that they have left, and pretend their naked emperors wear beautiful clothes. Republicans should spend their energy cleaning up their own act, rather than attacking people for criticizing it.
DonHopkins 11y ago
Are you suggesting she has any credibility at all to discredit?
vdnkh 11y ago
I dislike Carly but I agree with you. Liberal hand-wringing doesn't belong on HN.
- sremani 11y ago
  This is not liberal handwringing, its is an analysis of a SV exec about the work she did in while in SV as CEO of HP.
GabrielF00 11y ago
Setting aside all the political stuff, it's hard to see how this deal made any sense for HP. Apple got better distribution for their iPods, kept a competitor out of the market, and got their software installed on a ton of Windows computers. What did HP get other than a few bucks per iPod+HP sold?
- ansible 11y ago
  If its any consolation to the HP folks, Apple did something similar with Motorola. The MOTO ROKR was intentionally crippled, and designed to fail. It was merely created to delay Motorola entering the media business on their own. Not that they would have been any more successful than HP had they tried on their own...
bitwize 11y ago
Rational people tend to be progressive and "left leaning" (by American standards; by world standards this country is a right-wing powder keg). The sheer idiocy of the American right is certainly relevant to hackers as an interesting and difficult problem, just like the housing situation in San Francisco or that malaria and Alzheimer's continue to exist.
- pauleastlund 11y ago
  I rarely take the time to comment on HN or submit content but I'm occasionally really tempted to earn enough karma that I can down-vote arrogant, condescending, asinine posts like this one. Neither side of the political spectrum has anything like a monopoly on "rational people" and "the sheer idiocy of [people who disagree with bitwize]" is not "relevant to hackers as an interesting and difficult problem."
  - hfourm 11y ago
    Well... I am not agreeing that his comment was a bit cray. But isn't it common knowledge that generally more educated areas of the country are also more "progressive/left leaning"? Obviously there are exceptions, but even an intelligent man can cling to the wrong idea ;)
  - 0xFFC 11y ago
    That is not true . At least in my experience . All the rational people I've ever met in my whole life was liberal and big chunk of them were disappointed in political system (which makes them out of spectrum in left side ). For example even Noam Chomsky (which is far left in today US definition) prefer Obama (despite he knows Obama is just another politician who work for wall street instead of people ,but at least he is not going to put country in danger) to some crazy person at the other hand. I was fairly disappointed when I saw that comment down voted in HN . And I am from other country , I can see (in compare to my country) how exactly Right wing using deceive people with its control over money/media. About the monopoly maybe your left wing is Clinton ( which don't have any monopoly on rational people , because all know she is clown of wall street) , but true left wing (like Lessig Lawrence / Bernie Sanders / etc ) completely have monopoly on rational people in compare to right side , specially academic people in human science branches.
sremani 11y ago
Ms.Fiorina not only acknowledges her association with Silicon Valley, but tauts it, while name dropping SVs and CEOs. So, if anyone discusses her CEO-ship under Microscope, it becomes a political hit piece? Of course, her current presidential run and doing good in polls is getting this kind of attention, but this is not a he said - she said. The body of work is already laid there and the article does narrate a sequence of events which demonstrates her last stint as an Executive.

rabino 11y ago

Oh my god the tone of the article is exasperating. We get it, you think she'd dumb or something, but you need to relax a bit.

cylinder 11y ago
Dumb, maybe, or maybe not, but she's definitely a lying sociopath, no history of successful leadership, doesn't answer questions, and yet thinks she can be President. I saw her on Meet the Press last week and I was genuinely afraid, creeped out even.
- gadders 11y ago
  You equally apply that to Hilary.
- iak8god 11y ago
  > a lying sociopath, no history of successful leadership, doesn't answer questions, and yet thinks she can be President 1. Not everyone currently running for president is doing so because they believe they actually have a chance of becoming president. 2. I wonder what percentage of people in the US believe that they personally would be a capable president? It's got to be 90%+
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    > Not everyone currently running for president is doing so because they believe they actually have a chance of becoming president. A lot of people seem to miss this key detail. These people have advisors, analysts, and so on. They know that their chance of winning is extremely slim. However they don't care because the entire point may be: - VP slot. - Increase public image in general (for future runs for house seats, book deals, TV appearances, speaking opportunities, etc). - Pushing a specific political agenda into the debates.
    - cylinder 11y ago
      And that's okay? They make a mockery of the Office when they treat candidacy as a PR platform. We shouldn't just accept that.

socrates1998 11y ago

The more I read about this woman, the worse it gets. She is sales. Not an engineer. Not a designer. Not even a good leader. The world needs salespeople for sure, but they are mostly sizzle and little steak. She will get shredded on the national stage, I think she is worse than Palin. At least Palin was a governor.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
No, Palin was a beauty contest winner that got elected Governor. She read People magazine when flying between political meetings. She had zero education/competence in the political arena. No policy education and no desire to learn. She was a zero with a big mouth.
- ansible 11y ago
  I'd take Carly over Palin any day, though I dislike both. Carly would blunder around and be an ineffective president, but I was afraid Palin would start a war with Russia or something worse.

captn3m0 11y ago

The only reason I read through this piece was because its by Steven Levy. Not going to flag it, even though its highly political, because I'd never heard or known of the Apple/HP deal and it was still an interesting read.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

hapless 11y ago

Yes, this is incidentally a hit piece on Carly Fiorina, but the business analysis is quite entertaining Apple really took HP for a ride on the HP+iPod debacle. I didn't realize how badly. It's funny to look back.

guelo 11y ago

This is an interesting anecdote from the Steve Jobs era. HN normally eats this stuff up. No need to flag it just because it concerns a current Republican candidate.

geofft 11y ago
I'd have upvoted it if it weren't couched in politics. Even "How Ben Carson separated conjoined twins" is HN material. "How Ben Carson separated conjoined twins, and therefore he can separate Iran from their nukes" isn't.
aetherson 11y ago
My problem with it is that the author so clearly has an axe to grind about Fiorina that it makes me wonder whether the business analysis (which I agree is interesting) is the result of objective analysis or whether he went in looking to slam Fiorina as an idiot.
- wl 11y ago
  People have had axes to grind against Fiorina because of her tenure at HP long before she decided to get into politics.

dandare 11y ago

I understand that foreseeing who will be a successful CEO is kind of holly grail of management theory, but how come so many incompetent managers keep ruining their companies for so long only to leave with golden parachutes?

maephet 11y ago

More importantly than 'crushing their innovation brand' (which seems like a small consequence), he headed off a potential competitor who might enter the personal device ring. Well done.

lisper 11y ago

A lot of negative comments on the grounds that this story is political and hence unsuitable for HN. I disagree. It's only the context (Fiorina is running for President) that makes it political. The story itself is mainly a post-mortem of a bad business decision, and is therefore IMHO entirely appropriate for HN, and would be even if Fiorina were not running for President.

wdr1 11y ago
The general story of HP, iPods & her role may be apolitical, but this specific article about it definitely wasn't. It clearly was written with a political axe to grind.

Someone1234 11y ago

> This was a highly strategic move to block HP/Compaq from installing Windows Media Store on their PCs. Uhh what? I can understand them wanting to get iTunes on OEM PCs, but I don't recall there ever being a standalone "Windows Media Store," and at the time Microsoft was already bundling Windows Media Player (which did contain a link to a store via the in-built browser) with Windows that this deal didn't do anything to stop... PS - That is a quote, but cannot source the quote, and no author is given either. May be fictional.

tdkl 11y ago

Wouldn't even know who she is weren't for this article : http://motherboard.vice.com/read/carly-fiorina-i-supplied-hp-servers-for-nsa-snooping http://motherboard.vice.com/read/carly-fiorina-i-supplied-hp... And a presidential candidate ? Wow.

joezydeco 11y ago

I still maintain the theory that iTunes for Windows enabled the explosive sales of the iPod and, by extension, the funds and momentum to develop the iPhone. So continuing with that logic, Fiorina can claim that the iPhone was the result of her deal with Apple.

mrebus 11y ago
Wasn't this by design. They always wanted the ipod to be cross platform. The ipod then became advertisement for Apple's laptops and pc's. I'd argue ipod/itunes drove mac sells and by the time the iphone came around Apple was respected by consumers as a legitimate consumer electronics company. I know I read or heard this from an apple source but I can't remember where.