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But that's exactly the point. All growing up my generation was told, "Just get a degree! It doesn't matter what it's in, it doesn't matter what it costs, just

But that's exactly the point. All growing up my generation was told, "Just get a degree! It doesn't matter what it's in, it doesn't matter what it costs, just get a degree!" There was no other acceptable route, so all the "good" kids went to college to get degrees. That leaves parts of my generation racking up student loans they literally cannot pay off with the careers they will get, all the while assuming they'll be alright financially because "degree!" Of course, college is a big bundle of things: Friends, connections, good time, hopefully skills to get a job. Of course, college is a great thing and completely necessary for some people. But there are a lot of people going into so much debt they would have been in a better position financially by not going.

harryh 11y ago
I'm frustrated by comments like these that lump all of "my generation" into one bucket, as if the variety of people all around the same age can be combined into a single undifferentiated mass. Was your generation told this? The answer, as with so many things in life is, "It depends." Some millennials were probably given bad information that lead them to make poor choices. Some were given bad information but nonetheless were able to see past it to make good choices. Some just had rich parents so they were able to go to college without accruing any debt at all. Lumping 80 million people together (the majority of whom will never get a degree) is silly.
- gambogi 11y ago
  But that's exactly the point. All growing up we were told, "Be a generalist, not a specialist" There was no other acceptable route, so all the "good" kids identified patterns to get ahead. That leaves many of us barking up when we notice a pattern. Of course, a generalization is a big bundle of things: abstractions, ceteris paribus, the act of generalizing, a general statement, pattern naming
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- RevRal 11y ago
  >I'm frustrated by comments like these that lump all of "my generation" into one bucket, as if the variety of people all around the same age can be combined into a single undifferentiated mass. The scope of parent's comment is set at generation. Or specifically "my generation", localizing the experience to a time and place. >The answer, as with so many things in life is, "It depends." Some millennials were probably given bad information that lead them to make poor choices. Some were given bad information but nonetheless were able to see past it to make good choices. Some just had rich parents so they were able to go to college without accruing any debt at all. I had a similar experience as parent: the hubris of college education ejaculated throughout my k-12 education. Some of us saw through the BS, but there are plenty of people wondering what the hell kind phony dream they bought into, another American dream-bubble bursting with ulterior motives. >Lumping 80 million people together (the majority of whom will never get a degree) is silly. Culture is amorphous and hard to grasp in the present, arguably more difficult as time passes. But there are historical themes that can be said to have affected the "mind of the generation". I would call "get a college education" one of those themes, which has been pretty consistent from my interactions with people. Example: coming from older people "are you in school?" "No." "Shame on you."
WalterBright 11y ago
I'm left with the question of how hard can it be to google the job prospects of the degree you're interested in? It's never been easier to discover that sort of thing. Even during the medieval (i.e. pre internet) times I attended college, the pay for various majors were well known. Highest was chemical, lowest astronomy.
- Frondo 11y ago
  This is something that is super-frustrating to communicate in these discussions. I end up talking with people from the previous generation a lot, and this is something I hear, "how did you not know that that was dumb and shallow?" Here's how: from grade school up onto high school, kids in my generation were told, by literally every adult around, "get a degree, it doesn't matter what in, you'll get a good job." The language never differed, there was never talk of trades, of military service, of starting a business, none of that. Every single adult and authority figure said the same thing. When you're young, even if you start questioning stuff like that, when everyone you turn to says the same thing, where are you supposed to go for other points of view?
  - mhuffman 11y ago
    "Do what you love -- the money will come!"
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - WalterBright 11y ago
    Isn't part of the point of college to no longer unquestioningly accept what you're told by adults? How can you go through 4 years of college and never even once google starting salaries in your chose profession? And none of your peers do either? And not notice any of the constant flow of articles on reddit and hackernews about this issue? This is neither unknown nor secret nor obscure knowledge. > Every single adult and authority figure said the same thing. Not me. I've said otherwise for 40 years.
benihana 11y ago
I hear people say this all the time, but I don't remember being told this. I remember being told to go to college and to get a 'good' degree (this was well before STEM was a common term) meaning something not liberal arts and preferably something math heavy (although business is also good). I was told to meet people and talk to companies which come to colleges campus a lot. I was told to try new things and experiment and figure out what I liked and who I was. I remember having people who didn't go to college come in and talk to us, and people who went to vocational schools and people who enlisted in the military. They all said "if you college isn't your thing, there are other ways to having a fulfilling career." I was never told, "get a degree no matter the cost." This was evident during the first semester of freshman year of college. Freshman everywhere were sure they were going to be the next bestselling author, or the next insightful historian, or the next psychologist to make a huge breakthrough. They all knew it was hard to get a cushy job in those soft fields, they just thought they'd be the one to do it out of every incoming freshman in every school in every state in the country.
- skewart 11y ago
  "I remember being told to go to college and to get a 'good' degree (this was well before STEM was a common term) meaning something not liberal arts and preferably something math heavy..." I'm curious when the meaning of "liberal arts" changed. When I was in college liberal arts was a superset of STEM - well, at least SM. Physics was just as much a liberal arts field as history. A vocationally-focused degree in, say, criminology wouldn't be liberal arts, and neither would a self-guided major in peace studies. It seems like lately I've seen more and more people use the term as meaning 'all humanities, social sciences, and anything else that seems fluffy', which seems surprising to me. (Not that the comment above necessarily means it this way, though it does seem kind of close in spirit).
- Chathamization 11y ago
  People seem to forget that a law degree was probably the most common example of a "good degree" you'd hear about in the 90's. And if you want to get a law degree, the American Bar Association recommends an undergraduate degree in "history, English, philosophy, political science, economics or business."
skewart 11y ago
Up until maybe 30 years ago it made perfect sense to "just get a degree." College degrees were rare enough that they were a differentiator. The people pushing to get any old degree were just following the logic of the world they grew up in. I suspect a lot of millenials will encourage their kids to get degrees in STEM fields and especially CS, even though in 30 years that won't be the best advice.
deleted 11y ago
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harryh 11y ago

I'm frustrated by comments like these that lump all of "my generation" into one bucket, as if the variety of people all around the same age can be combined into a single undifferentiated mass. Was your generation told this? The answer, as with so many things in life is, "It depends." Some millennials were probably given bad information that lead them to make poor choices. Some were given bad information but nonetheless were able to see past it to make good choices. Some just had rich parents so they were able to go to college without accruing any debt at all. Lumping 80 million people together (the majority of whom will never get a degree) is silly.

gambogi 11y ago
But that's exactly the point. All growing up we were told, "Be a generalist, not a specialist" There was no other acceptable route, so all the "good" kids identified patterns to get ahead. That leaves many of us barking up when we notice a pattern. Of course, a generalization is a big bundle of things: abstractions, ceteris paribus, the act of generalizing, a general statement, pattern naming
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
RevRal 11y ago
>I'm frustrated by comments like these that lump all of "my generation" into one bucket, as if the variety of people all around the same age can be combined into a single undifferentiated mass. The scope of parent's comment is set at generation. Or specifically "my generation", localizing the experience to a time and place. >The answer, as with so many things in life is, "It depends." Some millennials were probably given bad information that lead them to make poor choices. Some were given bad information but nonetheless were able to see past it to make good choices. Some just had rich parents so they were able to go to college without accruing any debt at all. I had a similar experience as parent: the hubris of college education ejaculated throughout my k-12 education. Some of us saw through the BS, but there are plenty of people wondering what the hell kind phony dream they bought into, another American dream-bubble bursting with ulterior motives. >Lumping 80 million people together (the majority of whom will never get a degree) is silly. Culture is amorphous and hard to grasp in the present, arguably more difficult as time passes. But there are historical themes that can be said to have affected the "mind of the generation". I would call "get a college education" one of those themes, which has been pretty consistent from my interactions with people. Example: coming from older people "are you in school?" "No." "Shame on you."

WalterBright 11y ago

I'm left with the question of how hard can it be to google the job prospects of the degree you're interested in? It's never been easier to discover that sort of thing. Even during the medieval (i.e. pre internet) times I attended college, the pay for various majors were well known. Highest was chemical, lowest astronomy.

Frondo 11y ago
This is something that is super-frustrating to communicate in these discussions. I end up talking with people from the previous generation a lot, and this is something I hear, "how did you not know that that was dumb and shallow?" Here's how: from grade school up onto high school, kids in my generation were told, by literally every adult around, "get a degree, it doesn't matter what in, you'll get a good job." The language never differed, there was never talk of trades, of military service, of starting a business, none of that. Every single adult and authority figure said the same thing. When you're young, even if you start questioning stuff like that, when everyone you turn to says the same thing, where are you supposed to go for other points of view?
- mhuffman 11y ago
  "Do what you love -- the money will come!"
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- WalterBright 11y ago
  Isn't part of the point of college to no longer unquestioningly accept what you're told by adults? How can you go through 4 years of college and never even once google starting salaries in your chose profession? And none of your peers do either? And not notice any of the constant flow of articles on reddit and hackernews about this issue? This is neither unknown nor secret nor obscure knowledge. > Every single adult and authority figure said the same thing. Not me. I've said otherwise for 40 years.

benihana 11y ago

I hear people say this all the time, but I don't remember being told this. I remember being told to go to college and to get a 'good' degree (this was well before STEM was a common term) meaning something not liberal arts and preferably something math heavy (although business is also good). I was told to meet people and talk to companies which come to colleges campus a lot. I was told to try new things and experiment and figure out what I liked and who I was. I remember having people who didn't go to college come in and talk to us, and people who went to vocational schools and people who enlisted in the military. They all said "if you college isn't your thing, there are other ways to having a fulfilling career." I was never told, "get a degree no matter the cost." This was evident during the first semester of freshman year of college. Freshman everywhere were sure they were going to be the next bestselling author, or the next insightful historian, or the next psychologist to make a huge breakthrough. They all knew it was hard to get a cushy job in those soft fields, they just thought they'd be the one to do it out of every incoming freshman in every school in every state in the country.

skewart 11y ago
"I remember being told to go to college and to get a 'good' degree (this was well before STEM was a common term) meaning something not liberal arts and preferably something math heavy..." I'm curious when the meaning of "liberal arts" changed. When I was in college liberal arts was a superset of STEM - well, at least SM. Physics was just as much a liberal arts field as history. A vocationally-focused degree in, say, criminology wouldn't be liberal arts, and neither would a self-guided major in peace studies. It seems like lately I've seen more and more people use the term as meaning 'all humanities, social sciences, and anything else that seems fluffy', which seems surprising to me. (Not that the comment above necessarily means it this way, though it does seem kind of close in spirit).
Chathamization 11y ago
People seem to forget that a law degree was probably the most common example of a "good degree" you'd hear about in the 90's. And if you want to get a law degree, the American Bar Association recommends an undergraduate degree in "history, English, philosophy, political science, economics or business."

skewart 11y ago

Up until maybe 30 years ago it made perfect sense to "just get a degree." College degrees were rare enough that they were a differentiator. The people pushing to get any old degree were just following the logic of the world they grew up in. I suspect a lot of millenials will encourage their kids to get degrees in STEM fields and especially CS, even though in 30 years that won't be the best advice.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]