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It's more than common vernacular in English. "Fired" implies wrong-doing on their part. "Laid off" or "let them go" means the company couldn't afford to pay t

by jmadsen 11y ago

It's more than common vernacular in English. "Fired" implies wrong-doing on their part. "Laid off" or "let them go" means the company couldn't afford to pay them, or didn't need them anymore. It leaves no black mark against their name.

SilasX 11y ago
Meh ... I just think the issue is just so sensitive that it moves through the euphemism treadmill a lot faster. When I was growing up, it felt like there was a clear distinction between "fired" (with cause) and "laid off" (bad revenues, can't afford you). But over time I increasingly saw people refer to all terminations as being "laid off". Then "let go" entered the fray, and I heard of recruiters who told people to refer to any for-cause firing as "being let go". Whatever term you use on this, people will abuse until it doesn't mean that anymore. They want to make it sound like any termination wasn't for-cause, while having plausible deniability if anyone calls them on it. And yes, I know the usual ivory tower lecture about "that's how language normally works!" But normally it's slow enough that you can reasonably infer what someone means because of mutual knowledge of what the words mean. Not here. And probably, not ever.
kasey_junk 11y ago
I've always found it striking to note how laid off has migrated over time. When my grandfather got laid off, there was an expectation that he would come back to the same job with the same company some time in the near future. When I get laid off there is no expectation that my job will come back.
- uptown 11y ago
  The term for that is furlough.
- blakeyrat 11y ago
  Companies like Boeing (who have boom and bust years) still use the term "laid off" like that. But they're also union jobs where you basically can't get fired, short of taking a piss in the coffeemaker. So the word "fired" is still fine for those employees "exceptional" enough to get permanently laid off.
- jmadsen 11y ago
  that's exactly right - factories in town use to lay off workers seasonally, then call them back in later. Can't put my finger on when exactly, but during one of our recessions they stopped getting called back, and then companies started to realize once the local union was busted they could hire new workers at a fraction of the price, and...here you are.
JustSomeNobody 11y ago
Fired does not imply wrong-doing. Fired can be termination w/out prejudice.
- eli 11y ago
  I disagree, and I think Evernote engineers would be making a huge mistake if they tell future interviewers they got "fired" instead of "laid off." Maybe not to you, but to many people "fired" implies wrongdoing on the part of the employee.
smoyer 11y ago
I agree - "Fired" clearly implies wrong-doing. I never had a problem firing people who deserved it (and met HR's thresholds for firing). On the other hand, the worst thing I ever had to do is lay people off (who were working hard) because the company's fortunes had declined and we couldn't afford to pay them. What made it worse was the morning of the lay-off, one of them told me a joke: "What's the difference between a recession and a depression? A recession is when your neighbor loses his job, a depression is when you lose yours". You know why a good manager goes into his office and closes the door after executing the "terminations"? In my case, it was to hide the fact that I was crying.

by jmadsen 11y ago

SilasX 11y ago

Meh ... I just think the issue is just so sensitive that it moves through the euphemism treadmill a lot faster. When I was growing up, it felt like there was a clear distinction between "fired" (with cause) and "laid off" (bad revenues, can't afford you). But over time I increasingly saw people refer to all terminations as being "laid off". Then "let go" entered the fray, and I heard of recruiters who told people to refer to any for-cause firing as "being let go". Whatever term you use on this, people will abuse until it doesn't mean that anymore. They want to make it sound like any termination wasn't for-cause, while having plausible deniability if anyone calls them on it. And yes, I know the usual ivory tower lecture about "that's how language normally works!" But normally it's slow enough that you can reasonably infer what someone means because of mutual knowledge of what the words mean. Not here. And probably, not ever.

kasey_junk 11y ago

I've always found it striking to note how laid off has migrated over time. When my grandfather got laid off, there was an expectation that he would come back to the same job with the same company some time in the near future. When I get laid off there is no expectation that my job will come back.

uptown 11y ago
The term for that is furlough.
blakeyrat 11y ago
Companies like Boeing (who have boom and bust years) still use the term "laid off" like that. But they're also union jobs where you basically can't get fired, short of taking a piss in the coffeemaker. So the word "fired" is still fine for those employees "exceptional" enough to get permanently laid off.
jmadsen 11y ago
that's exactly right - factories in town use to lay off workers seasonally, then call them back in later. Can't put my finger on when exactly, but during one of our recessions they stopped getting called back, and then companies started to realize once the local union was busted they could hire new workers at a fraction of the price, and...here you are.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago

Fired does not imply wrong-doing. Fired can be termination w/out prejudice.

eli 11y ago
I disagree, and I think Evernote engineers would be making a huge mistake if they tell future interviewers they got "fired" instead of "laid off." Maybe not to you, but to many people "fired" implies wrongdoing on the part of the employee.

smoyer 11y ago

I agree - "Fired" clearly implies wrong-doing. I never had a problem firing people who deserved it (and met HR's thresholds for firing). On the other hand, the worst thing I ever had to do is lay people off (who were working hard) because the company's fortunes had declined and we couldn't afford to pay them. What made it worse was the morning of the lay-off, one of them told me a joke: "What's the difference between a recession and a depression? A recession is when your neighbor loses his job, a depression is when you lose yours". You know why a good manager goes into his office and closes the door after executing the "terminations"? In my case, it was to hide the fact that I was crying.