5 ms·

This seems possible by simply doubling the battery size, along with modest improvements to efficiency. Sure, it'd add another 1200 pounds, but that's still lig

by jewel 11y ago

This seems possible by simply doubling the battery size, along with modest improvements to efficiency. Sure, it'd add another 1200 pounds, but that's still lighter than a pickup truck. With a price drop due to the gigafactory, they might even be able to do it for the same cost of the current models. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could chime in about whether or not that'd be possible. It seems like there could be enough room for another layer of batteries, with only a modest change to the shape of the car.

Someone 11y ago
http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/max-load-model-s http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/max-load-model-s indicates that the weight of (passengers + cargo) in the model S should not exceed 962 pounds. So adding 1200 pounds of battery to the model S to get that range is out of the question. Even if you could, if you add 1200 pounds, power usage will go up. So, you will have to change the design of the car to accommodate the larger battery weight. It is unlikely that you can do that without adding further weight, increasing power usage further, or tremendously increasing the price of the car.
- VLM 11y ago
  Historically this is the rocket equation, which led to multi-stage rockets. I'm not sure we'll see multi-stage electric cars anytime soon. Although with progress in autonomous vehicles, some kind of first stage or trailer could drop off and drive itself back home...
  - gizmo686 11y ago
    At that point, you do not even need rocket style staging. Instead, when you are low, have a battery car meet you and dock while you are driving along the highway. Once you are recharged, the battery car can go back to the charging station, or to another customer. Of course, I do not forsee this being a cost effective approach, even without the regularty hurdles of highway speed docking.
    - DennisP 11y ago
      You could pull over just for docking. Then spend an hour towing the battery car, instead of waiting in one spot.
      - leoc 11y ago
        Or maybe something like the Bombardier Primove http://primove.bombardier.com/ http://primove.bombardier.com/ inductive charging system could be viable for private cars on motorways? Apparently Bombardier has started to pitch it as something suitable for cars: http://primove.bombardier.com/media/news/news-detail-page/article/2015/09/17/experts-convinced-by-primove-solution-for-cars.html http://primove.bombardier.com/media/news/news-detail-page/ar... . I can only imagine there would be some nasty transmission losses at various stages, though.
        mactitan 11y ago
        It seems this system requires the car to be stationary while charging but it would be like using cars as electric trollies. Hmmm I wonder if cars on hwys could have an automatically deployed arm for contacting a third rail or overhead wire?
      - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
        s/towing/being towed by/
  - infogulch 11y ago
    I think swapping batteries [0] or even whole cars would be viable before any kind of staged-power, especially for autonomous vehicles. [0]: http://www.teslamotors.com/videos/battery-swap-event http://www.teslamotors.com/videos/battery-swap-event
  - outworlder 11y ago
    I fail to see how the rocket equation applies for land-based vehicles. It makes as much sense as calculating Delta-V of a car.
    - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
      Adding more batteries increases the weight, thereby reducing fuel economy. So to get the intended effect, you have to add more batteries... It's going to give you something like the equation for max velocity/altitude from a rocket, even if not precisely the same.
      - Dylan16807 11y ago
        Fuel efficiency is dominated by other factors, so no it won't. When every pound of fuel requires 5 pounds to lift it, things go one way. When every pound of fuel requires a tenth of a pound to push it, things go another way.
        VLM 11y ago
        Not really, consider the extreme of a car shaped object with a volume of 99.9% battery, something of that shape can only go a certain distance X, where X is big, but moving a car shaped object X+1 is not possible with current (oh the pun) battery technology. One way to travel X+Y would be to put it on a flatbed electric tow truck with loaded range of Y, correct? In that case the tow truck is the first stage and the car is the second. I am serious about the self driving 4 wheeled trailer full of batteries. Given the irrational claim that an electric car is useless to (all) Americans unless it can drive over 1000 miles per day, the best way to fight that irrational claim is to provide an equally irrational solution. So the proper way to fight an irrational thought experiment of needing to drive over existing electric car range, is provide the irrational solution of something like "mid-air refueling" but mid-highway instead of mid-air and electrical power instead of Jet-A. I've toyed with the idea of patenting it and publicizing it to make a political statement, but I generate good ideas a lot faster than I implement them, so .... No need to own the self driving battery trailer, just pop up a smartphone app and your GPS talks to the closest charger's GPS and nature takes its course. With advanced enough communications it can drive in formation with a semi-autonomous car, tailgating is perfectly safe at 85 if your reflexes are faster than a couple nanoseconds and the existing wireless charging systems means the charger trailer doesn't need to actually touch your car. Its amusing to think of a charge cart like this rolling around a parking lot as a public service to attract shoppers. No need to pull ultra high current charge cables to every lamp post or embed chargers in asphalt.
- unchocked 11y ago
  It's pretty easy for a manufacturer to increase the max vehicle weight by upgrading the suspension and beefing up a few structural elements.
dsfyu404ed 11y ago
That's lighter than some pickup trucks. A modern single cab 8ft 1/2ton 4x4 usually comes in just under 5000lbs (curb weight). Variants with longer cabs are usually in the low 5000s. Single cab 8tf 90s pickups come in in the low 4000s. Sure you could dump an extra 1200lbs on the Tesla but you'd have to strategically dump another 300lb of metal at the vehicle itself if you want the chassis to last. I couldn't find part numbers for any wearable suspension/steering parts so I can't compare t to other vehicles but I'd bet that the chassis is very finely tuned to the weight that it has to carry and that there's not much wiggle room for extra while maintaining a the designed life expectancy. I couldn't find anyone talking about replacing long-term wear items (I didn't look hard) which does seem to indicate that they're overbuilt. I can see why Tesla may want to give people a good impression of EVs and not want to take the risk of using anything but an overbuild chassis on which to make that point (the Chevy volt on the other hand...)

by jewel 11y ago

Someone 11y ago

http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/max-load-model-s http://my.teslamotors.com/forum/forums/max-load-model-s indicates that the weight of (passengers + cargo) in the model S should not exceed 962 pounds. So adding 1200 pounds of battery to the model S to get that range is out of the question. Even if you could, if you add 1200 pounds, power usage will go up. So, you will have to change the design of the car to accommodate the larger battery weight. It is unlikely that you can do that without adding further weight, increasing power usage further, or tremendously increasing the price of the car.

VLM 11y ago
Historically this is the rocket equation, which led to multi-stage rockets. I'm not sure we'll see multi-stage electric cars anytime soon. Although with progress in autonomous vehicles, some kind of first stage or trailer could drop off and drive itself back home...
- gizmo686 11y ago
  At that point, you do not even need rocket style staging. Instead, when you are low, have a battery car meet you and dock while you are driving along the highway. Once you are recharged, the battery car can go back to the charging station, or to another customer. Of course, I do not forsee this being a cost effective approach, even without the regularty hurdles of highway speed docking.
  - DennisP 11y ago
    You could pull over just for docking. Then spend an hour towing the battery car, instead of waiting in one spot.
    - leoc 11y ago
      Or maybe something like the Bombardier Primove http://primove.bombardier.com/ http://primove.bombardier.com/ inductive charging system could be viable for private cars on motorways? Apparently Bombardier has started to pitch it as something suitable for cars: http://primove.bombardier.com/media/news/news-detail-page/article/2015/09/17/experts-convinced-by-primove-solution-for-cars.html http://primove.bombardier.com/media/news/news-detail-page/ar... . I can only imagine there would be some nasty transmission losses at various stages, though.
      - mactitan 11y ago
        It seems this system requires the car to be stationary while charging but it would be like using cars as electric trollies. Hmmm I wonder if cars on hwys could have an automatically deployed arm for contacting a third rail or overhead wire?
    - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
      s/towing/being towed by/
- infogulch 11y ago
  I think swapping batteries [0] or even whole cars would be viable before any kind of staged-power, especially for autonomous vehicles. [0]: http://www.teslamotors.com/videos/battery-swap-event http://www.teslamotors.com/videos/battery-swap-event
- outworlder 11y ago
  I fail to see how the rocket equation applies for land-based vehicles. It makes as much sense as calculating Delta-V of a car.
  - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
    Adding more batteries increases the weight, thereby reducing fuel economy. So to get the intended effect, you have to add more batteries... It's going to give you something like the equation for max velocity/altitude from a rocket, even if not precisely the same.
    - Dylan16807 11y ago
      Fuel efficiency is dominated by other factors, so no it won't. When every pound of fuel requires 5 pounds to lift it, things go one way. When every pound of fuel requires a tenth of a pound to push it, things go another way.
      - VLM 11y ago
        Not really, consider the extreme of a car shaped object with a volume of 99.9% battery, something of that shape can only go a certain distance X, where X is big, but moving a car shaped object X+1 is not possible with current (oh the pun) battery technology. One way to travel X+Y would be to put it on a flatbed electric tow truck with loaded range of Y, correct? In that case the tow truck is the first stage and the car is the second. I am serious about the self driving 4 wheeled trailer full of batteries. Given the irrational claim that an electric car is useless to (all) Americans unless it can drive over 1000 miles per day, the best way to fight that irrational claim is to provide an equally irrational solution. So the proper way to fight an irrational thought experiment of needing to drive over existing electric car range, is provide the irrational solution of something like "mid-air refueling" but mid-highway instead of mid-air and electrical power instead of Jet-A. I've toyed with the idea of patenting it and publicizing it to make a political statement, but I generate good ideas a lot faster than I implement them, so .... No need to own the self driving battery trailer, just pop up a smartphone app and your GPS talks to the closest charger's GPS and nature takes its course. With advanced enough communications it can drive in formation with a semi-autonomous car, tailgating is perfectly safe at 85 if your reflexes are faster than a couple nanoseconds and the existing wireless charging systems means the charger trailer doesn't need to actually touch your car. Its amusing to think of a charge cart like this rolling around a parking lot as a public service to attract shoppers. No need to pull ultra high current charge cables to every lamp post or embed chargers in asphalt.
unchocked 11y ago
It's pretty easy for a manufacturer to increase the max vehicle weight by upgrading the suspension and beefing up a few structural elements.

dsfyu404ed 11y ago

That's lighter than some pickup trucks. A modern single cab 8ft 1/2ton 4x4 usually comes in just under 5000lbs (curb weight). Variants with longer cabs are usually in the low 5000s. Single cab 8tf 90s pickups come in in the low 4000s. Sure you could dump an extra 1200lbs on the Tesla but you'd have to strategically dump another 300lb of metal at the vehicle itself if you want the chassis to last. I couldn't find part numbers for any wearable suspension/steering parts so I can't compare t to other vehicles but I'd bet that the chassis is very finely tuned to the weight that it has to carry and that there's not much wiggle room for extra while maintaining a the designed life expectancy. I couldn't find anyone talking about replacing long-term wear items (I didn't look hard) which does seem to indicate that they're overbuilt. I can see why Tesla may want to give people a good impression of EVs and not want to take the risk of using anything but an overbuild chassis on which to make that point (the Chevy volt on the other hand...)