4 ms·

Genuine curiosity: which country would a company need to be in to be able to trust them?

zxcvcxz 11y ago
That's not what it's about for me. If companies like google and Apple want my trust they need to operate as their own government entity and make all users citizens and give them rights. Until then I'll stick to using as much FOSS as possible, never using social media for secure communication, and storing all my own data. Basically, unless they let me see what's happening with my data by allowing me access to the code, I can't and won't trust them.
atmosx 11y ago
Switzerland, Netherlands and Norway are a good starting point. I believe that now that privacy became a major concern, we will see countries with some legislative background and experience in other sectors that require secrecy above everything else (e.g. private banking), evolve in secure havens for servers.
- jboy55 11y ago
  A lot has been written about secret US courts giving secret warrants to spy on US networks or force companies to give keys. Infiltrating foreign servers, installing backdoors and such don't require any warrant or court approval.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  Switzerland has their own private domestic SIGINT network known as Onyx, and has had other surveillance scandals before. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_files_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_files_scandal
  - chappi42 11y ago
    You link to something (Fichenaffäre) that happened more than 25 years before...
    - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
      I find it reasonable to assume the program was never folded, only rearranged. Much like Total Information Awareness.
- tremon 11y ago
  The Netherlands is on its way to be removed from that short list. The new WIV20xx (charter for information and security services) gives it very broad powers against very little oversight. I have been unable to find a decent source in English, but among its provisions: - allows for "reconnaissance" on external networks, including breaking encryption or forcing targets to divulge keys. This "reconnaissance" apparently includes installing sniffers or data probes. - allows for untargeted data collection on wired networks (including cell phone towers) - has provisions for forcing data transit stations (including ISP's, but also AMS-IX) to comply with requests. Only English source I've been able to find with a quick search is https://blog.cyberwar.nl/2015/07/dutch-intelligence-bill-proposes-non-specific-bulk-interception-powers-for-any-form-of-telecom-or-data-transfer-incl-domestic/ https://blog.cyberwar.nl/2015/07/dutch-intelligence-bill-pro...
caskance 11y ago
It depends on what you are trusting them to do. The NSA's not going to spy on you less just because you're not in the US. If anything, they'd spy on you more.
- angelbob 11y ago
  Sure, but they'll have more trouble getting cooperation from non-US companies you're using.
  - caskance 11y ago
    They would no longer need to ask for cooperation. Personally, I'd call that less safe. At least in theory, the NSA could allow a compliant US business to be secure. If the NSA could not get data from a foreign business the easy way, I'm sure they would get it the hard way.

That's not what it's about for me. If companies like google and Apple want my trust they need to operate as their own government entity and make all users citizens and give them rights. Until then I'll stick to using as much FOSS as possible, never using social media for secure communication, and storing all my own data. Basically, unless they let me see what's happening with my data by allowing me access to the code, I can't and won't trust them.

atmosx 11y ago

Switzerland, Netherlands and Norway are a good starting point. I believe that now that privacy became a major concern, we will see countries with some legislative background and experience in other sectors that require secrecy above everything else (e.g. private banking), evolve in secure havens for servers.

jboy55 11y ago
A lot has been written about secret US courts giving secret warrants to spy on US networks or force companies to give keys. Infiltrating foreign servers, installing backdoors and such don't require any warrant or court approval.
vezzy-fnord 11y ago
Switzerland has their own private domestic SIGINT network known as Onyx, and has had other surveillance scandals before. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_files_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_files_scandal
- chappi42 11y ago
  You link to something (Fichenaffäre) that happened more than 25 years before...
  - vezzy-fnord 11y ago
    I find it reasonable to assume the program was never folded, only rearranged. Much like Total Information Awareness.
tremon 11y ago
The Netherlands is on its way to be removed from that short list. The new WIV20xx (charter for information and security services) gives it very broad powers against very little oversight. I have been unable to find a decent source in English, but among its provisions: - allows for "reconnaissance" on external networks, including breaking encryption or forcing targets to divulge keys. This "reconnaissance" apparently includes installing sniffers or data probes. - allows for untargeted data collection on wired networks (including cell phone towers) - has provisions for forcing data transit stations (including ISP's, but also AMS-IX) to comply with requests. Only English source I've been able to find with a quick search is https://blog.cyberwar.nl/2015/07/dutch-intelligence-bill-proposes-non-specific-bulk-interception-powers-for-any-form-of-telecom-or-data-transfer-incl-domestic/ https://blog.cyberwar.nl/2015/07/dutch-intelligence-bill-pro...

caskance 11y ago

It depends on what you are trusting them to do. The NSA's not going to spy on you less just because you're not in the US. If anything, they'd spy on you more.

angelbob 11y ago
Sure, but they'll have more trouble getting cooperation from non-US companies you're using.
- caskance 11y ago
  They would no longer need to ask for cooperation. Personally, I'd call that less safe. At least in theory, the NSA could allow a compliant US business to be secure. If the NSA could not get data from a foreign business the easy way, I'm sure they would get it the hard way.