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I've got a suspicion that Amazon has been trialling/building this in the UK since their purchase of Yodel, perhaps earlier. A number of times some bloke in a ca

by suvelx 11y ago

I've got a suspicion that Amazon has been trialling/building this in the UK since their purchase of Yodel, perhaps earlier. A number of times some bloke in a car has turned up and delivered me a package. No uniform, no branding. Just a phone running Amazon software. I can't say it's the greatest experience.

joshstrange 11y ago
How was the experience bad? I never see my UPS delivery guy so I can't imagine it matters one way or the other to me how my packages "magically" show up on my front porch.
- hmmdiggy 11y ago
  We've had packages delivered by an individual similar to survelx, and the guy clearly smokes in his car as the package stinks of smoke and it even penetrates the items inside on occasion (clothing). Issue here is that he's not bound by company policy of smoking in a company vehicle, so he's free to smoke away.
  - saulrh 11y ago
    It'd be valuable for you to complain to Amazon when that happens. They probably can't get feedback on a service like this except through complaints like that.
    - hmmdiggy 11y ago
      Complained several times but still occurs. I'm stuck in that guy's catchment area so always a high chance it's the same bloke.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        They'll probably get the idea if you start hitting them in the wallet. Any time the stuff you ordered smells of smoke, return it as having been damaged in transit (it's true!) and they should catch on pretty fast.
        enraged_camel 11y ago
        I don't think the package smelling like cigarette smoke qualifies as "damaged", sorry. I hang out at coffee shops a lot and often times my bag and clothes end up smelling like coffee. Does that mean they are "damaged"? No. Especially since it's temporary (even more so in the case of the Amazon package, which is disposed of right away).
        mikeash 11y ago
        If only the packaging smells, then I agree, it's not damaged. But they also said that sometimes the contents get smelly. That definitely qualifies as damaged. Coffee smells come out a lot easier than cigarette smells, and you choose to go to those coffee shops, whereas the person I'm replying to does not choose to expose his brand-new clothes to cigarette smoke. If I buy brand new clothes and they smell of cigarette smoke out of the package, damned right that means they're "damaged."
        enraged_camel 11y ago
        Sounds like entitlement to me. Wash the thing and the smell goes away. Jeez...
        mikeash 11y ago
        Really, it's "entitlement" to expect that newly purchased clothes don't come with a foul smell? And again, cigarette smoke does not necessarily wash out as easily as you seem to think it does. Would you be as understanding of the driver if he got ice cream all over the clothes instead? After all, wash it and it'll come out.
        enraged_camel 11y ago
        Most people are smart enough to understand the significant categorical differences between an ice cream stain and cigarette smoke. Also, "foul" is completely subjective in this case. Guess what: I hate the plasticy/industrial smell of certain types of clothing packages. But I'm not gonna go around claiming the item is "damaged" simply because I don't like the way it smells out of the box.
    - dfinlay 11y ago
      I had an issue with my local UPS operation marking packages as 'Undeliverable as Addressed' at 20:00 the day they were supposed arrive, to meet their obligation. They would then arrive the next day without issue. I ended up calling Amazon, and they got the local UPS office on the phone and asked for the exact problem with addressing. There was none, and they issue did not reoccur.
    - Someone1234 11y ago
      Complaining about YODEL in the UK is like spitting in the ocean or saying "Comcast sucks" in the US. Everyone knows it, but yet it continues. Amazon UK has a permanent discussion thread titled "Yodel sucks" that is just stories about how Yodel lost/stolen/damaged/etc people's packages. Here is today's 44 post discussion: http://www.amazon.co.uk/forum/amazon/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx20NG9OQFCP0QF&cdThread=Tx1FICQOQ8YF6RZ http://www.amazon.co.uk/forum/amazon/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp...
    - monksy 11y ago
      As the user Someone said.. Amazon won't do anything about it. [I feel] If my last experience with Amazon CS is any indication they'll read a script, and just refund your money. (Not reship.. I've had that issue as well) Also, if you're a prime member and have spent quite a bit of money on Amazon.. They still won't care. I plan on cancelling my prime membership and seeking out alternatives.
  - tdylan 11y ago
    Simple solution = rating system a la Uber.
    - hellofunk 11y ago
      I agree. When Amazon sends an order using one of these type of delivery services, they should send a followup email to the customer in a day or two after delivery asking for a simple rating on the delivery experience.
      - ortusdux 11y ago
        I guarantee that they have this feature planned out and are just waiting until they have enough drivers that firing some is an option.
        hellofunk 11y ago
        Amazon is a rather wealthy company, are they really cutting corners on this key part of the customer experience because of money? Because good drivers would line up if they paid properly... or just hired a real delivery company.
        caskance 11y ago
        Do they not pay well? The rates in the Flex page look reasonable to me.
        blakeyrat 11y ago
        Unless their copy on the website is a lie, the rates they're offering for courier jobs is actually quite competitive in the Seattle area. It's probably more about being able to control their own delivery experience than it is about cutting corners.
      - Spooky23 11y ago
        Great, so now as a customer, I'm responsible for management tasks for Amazon's ersatz delivery service. Umm... no. There's an easier solution for this problem: Use Walmart, Newegg etc.
  - mseebach 11y ago
    It won't take many packages returned because they smell of smoke for that to become company policy.
  - abluecloud 11y ago
    I thought that because they were making money on the side, and therefore would be either a company, or sole trader, utilising their car that (in the UK anyways) it would fall under the banning a number of years back. info:
- andrewstuart2 11y ago
  Well to be fair, "not the greatest" doesn't mean it was bad. Just probably not as super friendly as the marketing photo they chose. :-)
- suvelx 11y ago
  Drivers from Amazon (and only Amazon) consistently flag first-attempt deliveries as "Unable to deliver package", then successfully deliver the package the second time around without any issue. And although these deliveries could be from either Amazon-Randoms or Amazon-Yodel couriers, the issue is still a recurring one. Trying to get any sort of resolution out of Amazon is impossible, as they insulate their logistics department from any customer service complaints. All you can do is point out that it happens nearly every delivery. Plus it's just plain weird, that some guy in joggers turns up and hands you a package. There's no way to associate the courier as a courier, and as such my first thought is usually "Why does this man have my stuff? Did I just let a random guy into my complex?"
  - gohrt 11y ago
    When Amazon opened in China, they had a big problem with these temp couriers showing up for work, stealing a package, and going MIA
  - TazDingo 11y ago
    I've ordered a few times from Prime Now and so far it's been a pretty good experience. I like how it shows real time GPS tracking of the delivery driver as well as the name of the driver. I've put specific instructions on where to leave the package if I'm not there or to give me a call when they've arrived, and so far no problems there. It's pretty easy to associate the courier as a courier since a notification pops up saying the driver has arrived and you can see the person holding a big brown bag with an amazon label on it. Pretty straight forward imo. So far a much better experience than OnTrac leaving shit wherever they please.
- ksherlock 11y ago
  If you see a UPS delivery guy or truck, you know who it is. Not so when some random person is creeping around your house.
- smackfu 11y ago
  Main complaint is when the person lies about delivering it if they can't make the promised date. Then they drop it off the next day with little repercussions. I've also had problems with companies using alternative shippers for cold-packed stuff, presumably because it was cheaper. Then it sat in someone's hot car for 12 hours and was delivered with room temp ice packs. Sure it was delivered on the right day, but not well.
- mikeash 11y ago
  There are lots of ways a package delivery can be "bad." For example, delivery services routinely leave packages at my garage rather than my front door, because it saves them 15 seconds of walking. This is less convenient for me but more convenient for them. But that's not all! Once they put a package low to the ground and not out of the way, so that when I went to drive somewhere, I backed over it. I once saw a delivery guy deliver to a neighbor. He dropped the package at their garage door, knocked on the garage door, and left. I assume they are required to knock but it doesn't say where. And of course because they never knock or ring my doorbell, the only way I know a package has been delivered is if I sign up for electronic notifications, or I discover it on my way out. In other instances, I've had packages simply delivered to the wrong house, I guess because numbers are hard. Once I had a package delivered to the wrong city. Usually it works well enough, but there's plenty of room for improvement for me.
  - Obi_Juan_Kenobi 11y ago
    It would be really interesting to see a map of delivery service satisfaction. It clearly varies a great deal. I'm in a fairly dense urban area, one of the next-day prime locations. Our apartment gets about 4 packages a week I'd say. Probably 90% arrive on time or ahead. I've had a couple where the driver just threw the package up the stairs to the apartment, instead of to the door. Still, considering the sheer number of packages, I've yet to have a misplaced or stolen package. They do drop off without ringing fairly often. Personally I don't mind, but it seems like that could be standardized.
- Spooky23 11y ago
  UPS/Fedex/USPS aren't burger flipper operations. The "magic" is the stuff that happens behind the scenes, all of these companies, from the frontline employees to the backend systems have a lot of details. Examples of why your experience would suck: - Late packages - Lost packages - Stealing of your stuff - Damage to your stuff - Lower-tier people learning your habits - Generally high level of fuckups. IMO, Amazon's path here is a sign that they are in trouble. In the late 90's, ecommerce players looking to cut costs did stuff like use Airborne Express (later acquired by DHL) and the company that become Fedex Home/Ground. Both companies used contracted out delivery drivers or courier companies, and both were big fuckups. UPS/FedEx/USPS are pretty efficient at this stuff, so the final frontier for Amazon is exploiting the workforce to cut costs. So you'll have folks driving their mom's car to deliver packages Uber-style, with inadequate insurance and insufficient income to maintain a vehicle suitable for the purpose.
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
No uniform? The least Amazon could do is send their drivers a hat and a sticker, or something.
- amazing_jose 11y ago
  NOPE! That could imply that they are employees and we all know that's impossible ;)
  - TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
    Oh right, I forgot that they're skirting employment law.
  - run4yourlives2 11y ago
    The funny thing is that this wouldn't fly in Canada, (and I'm assuming other jurisdictions, like California), since even the inference of an employer/employee relationship constitutes one when it comes to legal entitlements and responsibilities.
- bmelton 11y ago
  Being in a Prime Now delivery area, I've had three recent deliveries by individuals in private cars, and each of them was wearing an Amazon Prime Now polo shirt. In the past, I've had private car deliveries from Amazon, but I think they were generally LaserShip. Echoing the author's sentiments, I had one delivery guy that looked sketchy. I forgot I was waiting on a package, and a guy showed up in my driveway, idled there for about five minutes (which my dogs alerted me to), then started lumbering up the driveway with a package in hand, smoking a cigarette, which he disposed of in my garden. The guy wasn't obviously from anywhere, in that neither his clothing nor car indicated any company affiliation whatsoever, so I stopped him and asked him his name and employer, and it was LaserShip, not Amazon.
- mseebach 11y ago
  The delivery-person on the picture on the linked webpage is definitely wearing a branded jacket.
- 11y ago
wil421 11y ago
In the US they have been using Laser Ship. The delivery driver is usually some dude in their personal car with a Lazer Ship magnent on the side. Not sure if this is similar but they don't look like UPS, FedEx or DHL drivers.
jallardice 11y ago
I was thinking the same thing. I recently had something from Amazon delivered by a woman (same as you mentioned, no uniform or any indication she was with Amazon at all) who turned up with 2 young children who got out of the car and were running around in the car park outside my flat while she came in to deliver a package. I was confused at the time but this would definitely make sense.
deleted 11y ago
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user24 11y ago
I've had the same experience, also in the UK! But as to it not being the greatest experience, well, yes they are not always as professional as real courier companies. And a lot of the time they've just said "User24?" while handing me the package, so Amazon probably need to put a bit more effort into training. And I wonder how easy it would be to provide fake ID to Amazon and just steal a whole load of admittedly random packages? But, maybe that was the point of this possible trial, to identify issues like that so that the launch experience would be better?
k__ 11y ago
Delivery service quality has gone down for years now, here in Germany A few times a delivery guy stole my packages (>1000€) and most of the time it gets simply placed in the hallway without further notice... Insurance covers this, but it's aggravating non the less :\
- hmmdiggy 11y ago
  I used to be a delivery driver in rural England, and one day it was a Harry Potter book release date and we were told explicitly not to leave on the door step if they weren't in. I'm not sure who sent these instructions whether it was the company sending the items, or our company delivering, but it's funny to see perceived value imposed on this occasion.
colinramsay 11y ago
I can't find anything that says Amazon bought Yodel - do you have a source? That said, I think you might be right about Yodel's general model being like this. Their service is shocking. On the other hand, right now I am waiting on a parcel being delivered by DPD on behalf of Amazon. They have given a one hour window, I can track the location of the van online, and I could have text them this morning to rearrange the delivery of the parcel or provide different delivery instructions. And the drivers wear uniforms!
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  They didn't acquire Yodel, but they did acquire a minor stake in it: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/24/amazon-yodel-barclay-brothers-deal http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/24/amazon-yod...
- deleted 11y ago
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- suvelx 11y ago
  How on earth did you get Amazon to send you a delivery with DPD?
  - colinramsay 11y ago
    Dunno, I'd say it happens more often than not. For us they use a combination of DPD, Hermes, Yodel and Royal Mail/Parcel Force. We have Amazon Prime and live in a fairly out of the way location so it's probably a combination of those two factors.
  - lol768 11y ago
    Amazon has sent a lot of Prime packages to me via DPD, but it seems to depend on when I order it. If I order on Saturday, I have a feeling they have very little choice as to which courier to use and as such it tends to be DPD. I really prefer DPD because you can track the vehicle and you also get a delivery slot. Recently, Amazon have delivered some stuff for me via Royal Mail and ParcelForce (I ordered in the week) and whilst the packages did get to my house the next day, the tracking was much less informative/useful than what was offered by DPD.
ddmf 11y ago
Yodel use self employed drivers, probably in a similar way to flex, but I doubt they get as much money - £30 to £50 a day - not sure how many parcels that entails. http://yodel.broadbeantech.com/jobs/view/4467/ http://yodel.broadbeantech.com/jobs/view/4467/
- Someone1234 11y ago
  You supply the fuel... If you take into account the wear and tear on your car and the cost of refueling, this is like minimum wage levels of income. I'd be interested to read an account of someone who has actually done this "job"* (*technically self-employed, therefore treated like "unemployed" to most financial institutions and don't receive normal benefits like holiday time).
  - justincormack 11y ago
    There are some stories here http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/working-childcare-692/working-689/788078-anyone-work-yodel-delivering-parcels-all.html http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/working-childcare-692/wor... Interesting that one got the mobile numbers of the customers to arrange delivery, while others clearly failed to deliver and then didnt get paid.
- lmb 11y ago
  Its called courier owner driver I believe. There are forums dedicated to it. Payment is per parcel, with certain numbers "guaranteed". You need no meet certain insurance criteria, sometimes need to buy equipment / work clothing. Not an easy way to make money. Yodel offer 50-85p per parcel: http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11911 http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11911 Amazon Logistics in the UK: http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11936 http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11936 There is also lifestylecouriers.net for anyone who wishes to delve deeper into Yodel, co (requires registration)
popopje 11y ago
Package delivery is never a good experience in the UK i have my packages delivered to a friendly shop nearby - to my house, it's a nightmare. The collect+ system also works reasonably well, i take that option if offered. (where it's delivered to a local cornershop or similar and you walk to pick it up) I really feel there should be a gap in the market for "last mile" delivery to be solved properly, but i suspect there's not enough money to slow things down, and residential delivery is inherently difficult anywhere that doesn't have regimented street layouts. Try addresses for all lo - if no reply, deliver to pre-arranged local shop. Text/email alert allowing redelivery to address or changed address within an hour or two, for a premium fee (bicycle couriers and other instant courier delivery) that would solve all of my issues anyway..
- mattmanser 11y ago
  Every time I use collect+ the shop always seems to complain about it (it's too big/I'm too busy/etc.). These have all been various different shops.
  - popopje 11y ago
    i have had issues with that on one occasion too, now i remember.. (package was refused by the shop, went back to the depot for another day, changing the address to my home added another day etc etc.)
  - jameshart 11y ago
    Ah, the famous British customer service experience.
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  I've had terrible experiences with some couriers, but good experiences with DPD. They provide a one-hour delivery window, a map with local van tracking, and the driver usually arrives in the earlier half of the time slot. You can choose an alternative date or delivery to a neighbour right until the van rolls up. Short of Star Trek teleportation or Magic Drone Technology[tm], it's probably as a good a service as it can be.
SmellyGeekBoy 11y ago
E-commerce companies have 2 points of contact with the customer - the website and the courier. It makes no sense whatsoever to me why there's this ongoing race to the bottom on the courier side of things while companies spend more and more on the website side. I suppose at that point they already have your money, so what if this delivery experience is awful? Yodel are worse than useless, and I can't see this being much better.
- suvelx 11y ago
  What I don't understand, is why I can't pick my delivery slot for free. Everybody has jobs. Everybody finds it annoying to buy something on line. You never know when it's going to turn up. You have to take a day off, and hope your driver is competent at his job. Why can't you just say "I'll be at home on Thursday after 5pm. Call me on #555-333-9999 if you have any issues". Courier delivers the package after 5pm on Thursday. One delivery. No wasted delivery attempts. If an attempt is failed, charge me for it.
  - qnk 11y ago
    "Everybody has jobs" Yes, even the delivery guys who have already been working all day and probably don't want to work past 5pm. There are several alternatives to get custom delivery schedules that work for you, like Amazon locker or Doorman.co.
    - tormeh 11y ago
      How about the local post office or your mail box?
      - magic_beans 11y ago
        I don't know about you, but my local post office opens at 10 and closes at 5pm, which are when I'm at work. And my mailbox is a slot in the door. It's not going to accept my packages for me.
stephenc_c_ 11y ago
The blank vans, oftentimes actually rental vans, are actually Amazon Logistics. This is Amazon's own delivery operation in the UK, and all Prime deliveries in my area use this service. It's been years since I have seen any third party delivery providers for Amazon orders.
- shocks 11y ago
  Every time I've got something delivered by Amazon Logistics, it's actually been APC. Oh, and it's shit. Order next day delivery at 9AM Monday? Delivered 7PM Tuesday! Get it Wednesday because the post room in my office closes at 6PM.
  - te_chris 11y ago
    Fucking this! The amount of time Prime deliveries arrive after I've already left work is ridiculous (in London).
  - Nilef 11y ago
    Agreed, absolutely terrible service. My last two next-day Prime deliveries have been dreadful: 1 came a day late, the second still hasn't shown up.
  - dzlobin 11y ago
    In NYC, they like to use A1 International. I'm literally 0/2 with them, as neither package handled by A1I ever arrived.
  - buffoon 11y ago
    I was paying for prime but dumped it. Turns out if you pick the free option and the stuff is dispatched by amazon it tends to turn up within 48 hours anyway so fuck it. Also, I live 100 yards from Currys/PC World and they're actually cheaper on a lot of things (which was a bit WTF when I discovered it)
mattmanser 11y ago
UK Prime customer getting terrible service from Amazon delivery - I think you're right, I complained the other day that Amazon are the only delivery people who demand I come down to the building entrance to collect my package instead of delivering it to my door. Prime is an important part of Amazon's strategy, if they're not going to actually deliver packages properly then they're screwing themselves over. I'll see how it goes but if there's many more problems I'm cancelling Prime. EDIT: WTH am I getting d/ved for?
- suvelx 11y ago
  I don't pay for Prime. Ether I or my wife buy something once a month 'next-day'. Amazon fail to deliver it, we complain to customer service, and demand a free month of Prime. Rinse/repeat.
- philbarr 11y ago
  > WTH am I getting d/ved for? No idea, so I upvoted you. Now don't downvote me people just because I'm commenting about it. I didn't start it so it's not fair.
  - Milner08 11y ago
    Also upvoted, Im experiencing the same issues as him. Never had a problem when it was DHL/InterLink/DPD/etc (sure they weren't good, but they were much better than Amazon!).
dazc 11y ago
Yodel is owned by Shop Direct Group (Littlewoods, Very, etc). Amazon do have a minor stake though.
mnglkhn2 11y ago
The same happened to me in Chicago this past Sunday. Can't say I didn't like it but it was weird to get a package on a Sunday. Especially since I want forewarned that it will happen and I just got a phone call that my package is downstairs.
- stronglikedan 11y ago
  USPS delivers my Amazon packages on Sundays for a while now. I love it. I just wish more items were available for Sunday delivery. I suppose it won't be long now though.
Milner08 11y ago
Recently all my orders from amazon have come via Amazon Logistics and all I can say is they SUCK. Ive started using lockers cause I cant be bothered with the hassle of them failing to get into my flat block and then not contacting me at all. Ive complained to amazon several times and they just dont care.
thieving_magpie 11y ago
Man I couldn't care less who hands me my package if it arrives intact and on time. I'm not looking for a "delivery experience".
- digikata 11y ago
  Isn't the probability of something going wrong higher if the delivery infrastructure isn't staffed with full time people? I would guess that mishandling, loss, misdelivery, theft would all be more likely under the flex model.
  - TranquilMarmot 11y ago
    But it would also be a lot easier to track what happened to that package and pinpoint a specific individual for the loss/theft/misdelivery, since Amazon has the driver's personal info, GPS location, and list of packages that they are delivering.
    - digikata 11y ago
      How is that tracking different for a full time person vs a person who works for flex? Basically full time employment makes the workforce more sticky, and whatever performance quality process you run with the workforce will retrain or remove people who don't perform. With flex, it's likely the same quality process, only the workforce is larger and more likely to churn. So no matter what the performance of the quality process it has some non-zero time to detect and correct worker performance, so I don't see how one avoids a larger rate of delivery faults just from the workforce dynamics.
  - murbard2 11y ago
    Amazon will most likely cover such problems, no questions asked. They will be defrauded more, for sure, but they gain a possibly gigantic network of distributors.
    - digikata 11y ago
georgemcbay 11y ago
Amazon has been doing direct deliveries of some items here in San Diego for quite a while now. I don't mind it at all especially since it means some items are delivered the same day I order them. I vastly prefer their own couriers to USPS (the increased usage of which has caused me to consider cancelling Amazon Prime multiple times now -- loved Prime when it was basically all UPS here, USPS finds new and interesting ways to screw up my Amazon package deliveries on a monthly basis).
mnem 11y ago
Given the number of Yodel parcels that just fail to get delivered, I have to agree that it's not a particularly good experience. At least Amazon customer support is great.
luckygomez 11y ago
I've seen the same in US too, random private car, person without any amazon branding/attire stopping by and dropping off Amazon packages. Might have been a beta trial in Silicon Valley. It was a little disconcerting watching someone stop by like that and drop off a package.
manigandham 11y ago
What would be a "great" delivery experience? Seems on-time or faster with no damage is all that's needed. I prefer not even having to see/interact with a person for it.
- wmeredith 11y ago
  I was going to ask the same thing. My normal delivery experience is picking up my package off the porch as I watch the ass-end of a delivery truck mosey on down the street.
buffoon 11y ago
Same here. They throw the shit on my doorstep on the street in London, ring the doorbell and walk off. One day I lost a 512 gig Samsung 840 Pro to this as someone walked off with the package as I was out. Amazon sorted it next day but that's not the point.
blazespin 11y ago
I'm sure you'll be able to rate the experience soon, ala Uber Style, and the experience will be awesome.

by suvelx 11y ago

joshstrange 11y ago

How was the experience bad? I never see my UPS delivery guy so I can't imagine it matters one way or the other to me how my packages "magically" show up on my front porch.

hmmdiggy 11y ago
We've had packages delivered by an individual similar to survelx, and the guy clearly smokes in his car as the package stinks of smoke and it even penetrates the items inside on occasion (clothing). Issue here is that he's not bound by company policy of smoking in a company vehicle, so he's free to smoke away.
- saulrh 11y ago
  It'd be valuable for you to complain to Amazon when that happens. They probably can't get feedback on a service like this except through complaints like that.
  - hmmdiggy 11y ago
    Complained several times but still occurs. I'm stuck in that guy's catchment area so always a high chance it's the same bloke.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      They'll probably get the idea if you start hitting them in the wallet. Any time the stuff you ordered smells of smoke, return it as having been damaged in transit (it's true!) and they should catch on pretty fast.
      - enraged_camel 11y ago
        I don't think the package smelling like cigarette smoke qualifies as "damaged", sorry. I hang out at coffee shops a lot and often times my bag and clothes end up smelling like coffee. Does that mean they are "damaged"? No. Especially since it's temporary (even more so in the case of the Amazon package, which is disposed of right away).
        mikeash 11y ago
        If only the packaging smells, then I agree, it's not damaged. But they also said that sometimes the contents get smelly. That definitely qualifies as damaged. Coffee smells come out a lot easier than cigarette smells, and you choose to go to those coffee shops, whereas the person I'm replying to does not choose to expose his brand-new clothes to cigarette smoke. If I buy brand new clothes and they smell of cigarette smoke out of the package, damned right that means they're "damaged."
        enraged_camel 11y ago
        Sounds like entitlement to me. Wash the thing and the smell goes away. Jeez...
        mikeash 11y ago
        Really, it's "entitlement" to expect that newly purchased clothes don't come with a foul smell? And again, cigarette smoke does not necessarily wash out as easily as you seem to think it does. Would you be as understanding of the driver if he got ice cream all over the clothes instead? After all, wash it and it'll come out.
        enraged_camel 11y ago
        Most people are smart enough to understand the significant categorical differences between an ice cream stain and cigarette smoke. Also, "foul" is completely subjective in this case. Guess what: I hate the plasticy/industrial smell of certain types of clothing packages. But I'm not gonna go around claiming the item is "damaged" simply because I don't like the way it smells out of the box.
  - dfinlay 11y ago
    I had an issue with my local UPS operation marking packages as 'Undeliverable as Addressed' at 20:00 the day they were supposed arrive, to meet their obligation. They would then arrive the next day without issue. I ended up calling Amazon, and they got the local UPS office on the phone and asked for the exact problem with addressing. There was none, and they issue did not reoccur.
  - Someone1234 11y ago
    Complaining about YODEL in the UK is like spitting in the ocean or saying "Comcast sucks" in the US. Everyone knows it, but yet it continues. Amazon UK has a permanent discussion thread titled "Yodel sucks" that is just stories about how Yodel lost/stolen/damaged/etc people's packages. Here is today's 44 post discussion: http://www.amazon.co.uk/forum/amazon/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&cdForum=Fx20NG9OQFCP0QF&cdThread=Tx1FICQOQ8YF6RZ http://www.amazon.co.uk/forum/amazon/ref=cm_cd_tfp_ef_tft_tp...
  - monksy 11y ago
    As the user Someone said.. Amazon won't do anything about it. [I feel] If my last experience with Amazon CS is any indication they'll read a script, and just refund your money. (Not reship.. I've had that issue as well) Also, if you're a prime member and have spent quite a bit of money on Amazon.. They still won't care. I plan on cancelling my prime membership and seeking out alternatives.
- tdylan 11y ago
  Simple solution = rating system a la Uber.
  - hellofunk 11y ago
    I agree. When Amazon sends an order using one of these type of delivery services, they should send a followup email to the customer in a day or two after delivery asking for a simple rating on the delivery experience.
    - ortusdux 11y ago
      I guarantee that they have this feature planned out and are just waiting until they have enough drivers that firing some is an option.
      - hellofunk 11y ago
        Amazon is a rather wealthy company, are they really cutting corners on this key part of the customer experience because of money? Because good drivers would line up if they paid properly... or just hired a real delivery company.
        caskance 11y ago
        Do they not pay well? The rates in the Flex page look reasonable to me.
        blakeyrat 11y ago
        Unless their copy on the website is a lie, the rates they're offering for courier jobs is actually quite competitive in the Seattle area. It's probably more about being able to control their own delivery experience than it is about cutting corners.
    - Spooky23 11y ago
      Great, so now as a customer, I'm responsible for management tasks for Amazon's ersatz delivery service. Umm... no. There's an easier solution for this problem: Use Walmart, Newegg etc.
- mseebach 11y ago
  It won't take many packages returned because they smell of smoke for that to become company policy.
- abluecloud 11y ago
  I thought that because they were making money on the side, and therefore would be either a company, or sole trader, utilising their car that (in the UK anyways) it would fall under the banning a number of years back. info:
andrewstuart2 11y ago
Well to be fair, "not the greatest" doesn't mean it was bad. Just probably not as super friendly as the marketing photo they chose. :-)
suvelx 11y ago
Drivers from Amazon (and only Amazon) consistently flag first-attempt deliveries as "Unable to deliver package", then successfully deliver the package the second time around without any issue. And although these deliveries could be from either Amazon-Randoms or Amazon-Yodel couriers, the issue is still a recurring one. Trying to get any sort of resolution out of Amazon is impossible, as they insulate their logistics department from any customer service complaints. All you can do is point out that it happens nearly every delivery. Plus it's just plain weird, that some guy in joggers turns up and hands you a package. There's no way to associate the courier as a courier, and as such my first thought is usually "Why does this man have my stuff? Did I just let a random guy into my complex?"
- gohrt 11y ago
  When Amazon opened in China, they had a big problem with these temp couriers showing up for work, stealing a package, and going MIA
- TazDingo 11y ago
  I've ordered a few times from Prime Now and so far it's been a pretty good experience. I like how it shows real time GPS tracking of the delivery driver as well as the name of the driver. I've put specific instructions on where to leave the package if I'm not there or to give me a call when they've arrived, and so far no problems there. It's pretty easy to associate the courier as a courier since a notification pops up saying the driver has arrived and you can see the person holding a big brown bag with an amazon label on it. Pretty straight forward imo. So far a much better experience than OnTrac leaving shit wherever they please.
ksherlock 11y ago
If you see a UPS delivery guy or truck, you know who it is. Not so when some random person is creeping around your house.
smackfu 11y ago
Main complaint is when the person lies about delivering it if they can't make the promised date. Then they drop it off the next day with little repercussions. I've also had problems with companies using alternative shippers for cold-packed stuff, presumably because it was cheaper. Then it sat in someone's hot car for 12 hours and was delivered with room temp ice packs. Sure it was delivered on the right day, but not well.
mikeash 11y ago
There are lots of ways a package delivery can be "bad." For example, delivery services routinely leave packages at my garage rather than my front door, because it saves them 15 seconds of walking. This is less convenient for me but more convenient for them. But that's not all! Once they put a package low to the ground and not out of the way, so that when I went to drive somewhere, I backed over it. I once saw a delivery guy deliver to a neighbor. He dropped the package at their garage door, knocked on the garage door, and left. I assume they are required to knock but it doesn't say where. And of course because they never knock or ring my doorbell, the only way I know a package has been delivered is if I sign up for electronic notifications, or I discover it on my way out. In other instances, I've had packages simply delivered to the wrong house, I guess because numbers are hard. Once I had a package delivered to the wrong city. Usually it works well enough, but there's plenty of room for improvement for me.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 11y ago
  It would be really interesting to see a map of delivery service satisfaction. It clearly varies a great deal. I'm in a fairly dense urban area, one of the next-day prime locations. Our apartment gets about 4 packages a week I'd say. Probably 90% arrive on time or ahead. I've had a couple where the driver just threw the package up the stairs to the apartment, instead of to the door. Still, considering the sheer number of packages, I've yet to have a misplaced or stolen package. They do drop off without ringing fairly often. Personally I don't mind, but it seems like that could be standardized.
Spooky23 11y ago
UPS/Fedex/USPS aren't burger flipper operations. The "magic" is the stuff that happens behind the scenes, all of these companies, from the frontline employees to the backend systems have a lot of details. Examples of why your experience would suck: - Late packages - Lost packages - Stealing of your stuff - Damage to your stuff - Lower-tier people learning your habits - Generally high level of fuckups. IMO, Amazon's path here is a sign that they are in trouble. In the late 90's, ecommerce players looking to cut costs did stuff like use Airborne Express (later acquired by DHL) and the company that become Fedex Home/Ground. Both companies used contracted out delivery drivers or courier companies, and both were big fuckups. UPS/FedEx/USPS are pretty efficient at this stuff, so the final frontier for Amazon is exploiting the workforce to cut costs. So you'll have folks driving their mom's car to deliver packages Uber-style, with inadequate insurance and insufficient income to maintain a vehicle suitable for the purpose.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

No uniform? The least Amazon could do is send their drivers a hat and a sticker, or something.

amazing_jose 11y ago
NOPE! That could imply that they are employees and we all know that's impossible ;)
- TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
  Oh right, I forgot that they're skirting employment law.
- run4yourlives2 11y ago
  The funny thing is that this wouldn't fly in Canada, (and I'm assuming other jurisdictions, like California), since even the inference of an employer/employee relationship constitutes one when it comes to legal entitlements and responsibilities.
bmelton 11y ago
Being in a Prime Now delivery area, I've had three recent deliveries by individuals in private cars, and each of them was wearing an Amazon Prime Now polo shirt. In the past, I've had private car deliveries from Amazon, but I think they were generally LaserShip. Echoing the author's sentiments, I had one delivery guy that looked sketchy. I forgot I was waiting on a package, and a guy showed up in my driveway, idled there for about five minutes (which my dogs alerted me to), then started lumbering up the driveway with a package in hand, smoking a cigarette, which he disposed of in my garden. The guy wasn't obviously from anywhere, in that neither his clothing nor car indicated any company affiliation whatsoever, so I stopped him and asked him his name and employer, and it was LaserShip, not Amazon.
mseebach 11y ago
The delivery-person on the picture on the linked webpage is definitely wearing a branded jacket.
11y ago

wil421 11y ago

In the US they have been using Laser Ship. The delivery driver is usually some dude in their personal car with a Lazer Ship magnent on the side. Not sure if this is similar but they don't look like UPS, FedEx or DHL drivers.

jallardice 11y ago

I was thinking the same thing. I recently had something from Amazon delivered by a woman (same as you mentioned, no uniform or any indication she was with Amazon at all) who turned up with 2 young children who got out of the car and were running around in the car park outside my flat while she came in to deliver a package. I was confused at the time but this would definitely make sense.

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user24 11y ago

I've had the same experience, also in the UK! But as to it not being the greatest experience, well, yes they are not always as professional as real courier companies. And a lot of the time they've just said "User24?" while handing me the package, so Amazon probably need to put a bit more effort into training. And I wonder how easy it would be to provide fake ID to Amazon and just steal a whole load of admittedly random packages? But, maybe that was the point of this possible trial, to identify issues like that so that the launch experience would be better?

k__ 11y ago

Delivery service quality has gone down for years now, here in Germany A few times a delivery guy stole my packages (>1000€) and most of the time it gets simply placed in the hallway without further notice... Insurance covers this, but it's aggravating non the less :\

hmmdiggy 11y ago
I used to be a delivery driver in rural England, and one day it was a Harry Potter book release date and we were told explicitly not to leave on the door step if they weren't in. I'm not sure who sent these instructions whether it was the company sending the items, or our company delivering, but it's funny to see perceived value imposed on this occasion.

colinramsay 11y ago

I can't find anything that says Amazon bought Yodel - do you have a source? That said, I think you might be right about Yodel's general model being like this. Their service is shocking. On the other hand, right now I am waiting on a parcel being delivered by DPD on behalf of Amazon. They have given a one hour window, I can track the location of the van online, and I could have text them this morning to rearrange the delivery of the parcel or provide different delivery instructions. And the drivers wear uniforms!

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
They didn't acquire Yodel, but they did acquire a minor stake in it: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/24/amazon-yodel-barclay-brothers-deal http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/mar/24/amazon-yod...
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suvelx 11y ago
How on earth did you get Amazon to send you a delivery with DPD?
- colinramsay 11y ago
  Dunno, I'd say it happens more often than not. For us they use a combination of DPD, Hermes, Yodel and Royal Mail/Parcel Force. We have Amazon Prime and live in a fairly out of the way location so it's probably a combination of those two factors.
- lol768 11y ago
  Amazon has sent a lot of Prime packages to me via DPD, but it seems to depend on when I order it. If I order on Saturday, I have a feeling they have very little choice as to which courier to use and as such it tends to be DPD. I really prefer DPD because you can track the vehicle and you also get a delivery slot. Recently, Amazon have delivered some stuff for me via Royal Mail and ParcelForce (I ordered in the week) and whilst the packages did get to my house the next day, the tracking was much less informative/useful than what was offered by DPD.

ddmf 11y ago

Yodel use self employed drivers, probably in a similar way to flex, but I doubt they get as much money - £30 to £50 a day - not sure how many parcels that entails. http://yodel.broadbeantech.com/jobs/view/4467/ http://yodel.broadbeantech.com/jobs/view/4467/

Someone1234 11y ago
You supply the fuel... If you take into account the wear and tear on your car and the cost of refueling, this is like minimum wage levels of income. I'd be interested to read an account of someone who has actually done this "job"* (*technically self-employed, therefore treated like "unemployed" to most financial institutions and don't receive normal benefits like holiday time).
- justincormack 11y ago
  There are some stories here http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/working-childcare-692/working-689/788078-anyone-work-yodel-delivering-parcels-all.html http://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/working-childcare-692/wor... Interesting that one got the mobile numbers of the customers to arrange delivery, while others clearly failed to deliver and then didnt get paid.
lmb 11y ago
Its called courier owner driver I believe. There are forums dedicated to it. Payment is per parcel, with certain numbers "guaranteed". You need no meet certain insurance criteria, sometimes need to buy equipment / work clothing. Not an easy way to make money. Yodel offer 50-85p per parcel: http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11911 http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11911 Amazon Logistics in the UK: http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11936 http://codforum.org.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11936 There is also lifestylecouriers.net for anyone who wishes to delve deeper into Yodel, co (requires registration)

popopje 11y ago

Package delivery is never a good experience in the UK i have my packages delivered to a friendly shop nearby - to my house, it's a nightmare. The collect+ system also works reasonably well, i take that option if offered. (where it's delivered to a local cornershop or similar and you walk to pick it up) I really feel there should be a gap in the market for "last mile" delivery to be solved properly, but i suspect there's not enough money to slow things down, and residential delivery is inherently difficult anywhere that doesn't have regimented street layouts. Try addresses for all lo - if no reply, deliver to pre-arranged local shop. Text/email alert allowing redelivery to address or changed address within an hour or two, for a premium fee (bicycle couriers and other instant courier delivery) that would solve all of my issues anyway..

mattmanser 11y ago
Every time I use collect+ the shop always seems to complain about it (it's too big/I'm too busy/etc.). These have all been various different shops.
- popopje 11y ago
  i have had issues with that on one occasion too, now i remember.. (package was refused by the shop, went back to the depot for another day, changing the address to my home added another day etc etc.)
- jameshart 11y ago
  Ah, the famous British customer service experience.
TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
I've had terrible experiences with some couriers, but good experiences with DPD. They provide a one-hour delivery window, a map with local van tracking, and the driver usually arrives in the earlier half of the time slot. You can choose an alternative date or delivery to a neighbour right until the van rolls up. Short of Star Trek teleportation or Magic Drone Technology[tm], it's probably as a good a service as it can be.

SmellyGeekBoy 11y ago

E-commerce companies have 2 points of contact with the customer - the website and the courier. It makes no sense whatsoever to me why there's this ongoing race to the bottom on the courier side of things while companies spend more and more on the website side. I suppose at that point they already have your money, so what if this delivery experience is awful? Yodel are worse than useless, and I can't see this being much better.

suvelx 11y ago
What I don't understand, is why I can't pick my delivery slot for free. Everybody has jobs. Everybody finds it annoying to buy something on line. You never know when it's going to turn up. You have to take a day off, and hope your driver is competent at his job. Why can't you just say "I'll be at home on Thursday after 5pm. Call me on #555-333-9999 if you have any issues". Courier delivers the package after 5pm on Thursday. One delivery. No wasted delivery attempts. If an attempt is failed, charge me for it.
- qnk 11y ago
  "Everybody has jobs" Yes, even the delivery guys who have already been working all day and probably don't want to work past 5pm. There are several alternatives to get custom delivery schedules that work for you, like Amazon locker or Doorman.co.
  - tormeh 11y ago
    How about the local post office or your mail box?
    - magic_beans 11y ago
      I don't know about you, but my local post office opens at 10 and closes at 5pm, which are when I'm at work. And my mailbox is a slot in the door. It's not going to accept my packages for me.

stephenc_c_ 11y ago

The blank vans, oftentimes actually rental vans, are actually Amazon Logistics. This is Amazon's own delivery operation in the UK, and all Prime deliveries in my area use this service. It's been years since I have seen any third party delivery providers for Amazon orders.

shocks 11y ago
Every time I've got something delivered by Amazon Logistics, it's actually been APC. Oh, and it's shit. Order next day delivery at 9AM Monday? Delivered 7PM Tuesday! Get it Wednesday because the post room in my office closes at 6PM.
- te_chris 11y ago
  Fucking this! The amount of time Prime deliveries arrive after I've already left work is ridiculous (in London).
- Nilef 11y ago
  Agreed, absolutely terrible service. My last two next-day Prime deliveries have been dreadful: 1 came a day late, the second still hasn't shown up.
- dzlobin 11y ago
  In NYC, they like to use A1 International. I'm literally 0/2 with them, as neither package handled by A1I ever arrived.
- buffoon 11y ago
  I was paying for prime but dumped it. Turns out if you pick the free option and the stuff is dispatched by amazon it tends to turn up within 48 hours anyway so fuck it. Also, I live 100 yards from Currys/PC World and they're actually cheaper on a lot of things (which was a bit WTF when I discovered it)

mattmanser 11y ago

UK Prime customer getting terrible service from Amazon delivery - I think you're right, I complained the other day that Amazon are the only delivery people who demand I come down to the building entrance to collect my package instead of delivering it to my door. Prime is an important part of Amazon's strategy, if they're not going to actually deliver packages properly then they're screwing themselves over. I'll see how it goes but if there's many more problems I'm cancelling Prime. EDIT: WTH am I getting d/ved for?

suvelx 11y ago
I don't pay for Prime. Ether I or my wife buy something once a month 'next-day'. Amazon fail to deliver it, we complain to customer service, and demand a free month of Prime. Rinse/repeat.
philbarr 11y ago
> WTH am I getting d/ved for? No idea, so I upvoted you. Now don't downvote me people just because I'm commenting about it. I didn't start it so it's not fair.
- Milner08 11y ago
  Also upvoted, Im experiencing the same issues as him. Never had a problem when it was DHL/InterLink/DPD/etc (sure they weren't good, but they were much better than Amazon!).

dazc 11y ago

Yodel is owned by Shop Direct Group (Littlewoods, Very, etc). Amazon do have a minor stake though.

mnglkhn2 11y ago

The same happened to me in Chicago this past Sunday. Can't say I didn't like it but it was weird to get a package on a Sunday. Especially since I want forewarned that it will happen and I just got a phone call that my package is downstairs.

stronglikedan 11y ago
USPS delivers my Amazon packages on Sundays for a while now. I love it. I just wish more items were available for Sunday delivery. I suppose it won't be long now though.

Milner08 11y ago

Recently all my orders from amazon have come via Amazon Logistics and all I can say is they SUCK. Ive started using lockers cause I cant be bothered with the hassle of them failing to get into my flat block and then not contacting me at all. Ive complained to amazon several times and they just dont care.

thieving_magpie 11y ago

Man I couldn't care less who hands me my package if it arrives intact and on time. I'm not looking for a "delivery experience".

digikata 11y ago
Isn't the probability of something going wrong higher if the delivery infrastructure isn't staffed with full time people? I would guess that mishandling, loss, misdelivery, theft would all be more likely under the flex model.
- TranquilMarmot 11y ago
  But it would also be a lot easier to track what happened to that package and pinpoint a specific individual for the loss/theft/misdelivery, since Amazon has the driver's personal info, GPS location, and list of packages that they are delivering.
  - digikata 11y ago
    How is that tracking different for a full time person vs a person who works for flex? Basically full time employment makes the workforce more sticky, and whatever performance quality process you run with the workforce will retrain or remove people who don't perform. With flex, it's likely the same quality process, only the workforce is larger and more likely to churn. So no matter what the performance of the quality process it has some non-zero time to detect and correct worker performance, so I don't see how one avoids a larger rate of delivery faults just from the workforce dynamics.
- murbard2 11y ago
  Amazon will most likely cover such problems, no questions asked. They will be defrauded more, for sure, but they gain a possibly gigantic network of distributors.
  - digikata 11y ago

georgemcbay 11y ago

Amazon has been doing direct deliveries of some items here in San Diego for quite a while now. I don't mind it at all especially since it means some items are delivered the same day I order them. I vastly prefer their own couriers to USPS (the increased usage of which has caused me to consider cancelling Amazon Prime multiple times now -- loved Prime when it was basically all UPS here, USPS finds new and interesting ways to screw up my Amazon package deliveries on a monthly basis).

mnem 11y ago

Given the number of Yodel parcels that just fail to get delivered, I have to agree that it's not a particularly good experience. At least Amazon customer support is great.

luckygomez 11y ago

I've seen the same in US too, random private car, person without any amazon branding/attire stopping by and dropping off Amazon packages. Might have been a beta trial in Silicon Valley. It was a little disconcerting watching someone stop by like that and drop off a package.

manigandham 11y ago

What would be a "great" delivery experience? Seems on-time or faster with no damage is all that's needed. I prefer not even having to see/interact with a person for it.

wmeredith 11y ago
I was going to ask the same thing. My normal delivery experience is picking up my package off the porch as I watch the ass-end of a delivery truck mosey on down the street.

buffoon 11y ago

Same here. They throw the shit on my doorstep on the street in London, ring the doorbell and walk off. One day I lost a 512 gig Samsung 840 Pro to this as someone walked off with the package as I was out. Amazon sorted it next day but that's not the point.

blazespin 11y ago

I'm sure you'll be able to rate the experience soon, ala Uber Style, and the experience will be awesome.