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The thing that gets lost in most statements similar to "$CITY is dangerous!", is that it's usually not the whole city. Parts of it are. If you know what parts a

by smtddr 11y ago

The thing that gets lost in most statements similar to "$CITY is dangerous!", is that it's usually not the whole city. Parts of it are. If you know what parts and stay away from those, you'll be okay. There are parts of San Francisco that are probably pretty scary from the point-of-view of upper-middle-class folks but when you know SF well enough, you know where _not_ to go. - Mexico is a beautiful place with plenty to do on a family vacation, as long as you know where you're going. - Oakland has fantastic entertainment, art and food... as long as you know where you're going. - San Francisco is great; well-known as a major international tourist attraction... as long as you don't go to... http://www.vice.com/read/hunters-point-is-san-franciscos-radioactive-basement http://www.vice.com/read/hunters-point-is-san-franciscos-rad...

fiatmoney 11y ago
If one has to live there and be familiar with the local geography in order to know precisely how to reduce one's risk of getting carjacked, it's fair to describe it as "dangerous". There is a real difference between "danger with pockets of safety" and the reverse.
- smtddr 11y ago
  It's just that upper-middle class people tend not to have any street-smarts so they're afraid of any place that doesn't look shiny-and-glamorous..... and eventually, this conversation is going to take us to deeper uncomfortable social issues like this: http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/what-to-do-when-your-app-is-racist http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/what-to-do-when-y... "“rating system based on the personal views of Americans, a people historically known to mask the occasional racist view behind words like ‘dangerous’ ”—or, for that matter, “sketchy.”
- adventured 11y ago
  As an example, London has plenty of violent crime, car jackings, robberies, rapes, et al. I don't think very many people would categorize it as an unsafe city per se, there are just areas you blatantly want to avoid. That's true of nearly every major city - indeed, there are only a few major cities where that isn't the case.
blisterpeanuts 11y ago
"If you know what parts and stay away from those, you'll be okay." That's only true if the bad guys stay in their own neighborhoods. If the bad guys wander across your path, like for example to mug affluent people downtown or burglarize affluent homes, then you can't guarantee you'll be okay. What's more, it's not really "okay" that 45 people were murdered in one weekend in Chicago or Detroit, regardless of how isolated the ghetto is from the nicer areas. Every murder is a tragedy and rips a hole in the city. Ultimately it comes back to haunt the rest of the residents, no matter how much they may try to not think about it.
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greggman 11y ago
Hmmm, there were two muggings in Noe Valley at the corner of Jersey and Noe when I was there. Yea, I know, anecdote. I heard one of them. It happened within 100 feet of my apartment at the corner. At the time I just thought it was some kids but found out the next day it was a mugging. Had my bike stolen from my garage there. Garage was closed. Also had 4 Japanese co-workers come for GDC and get mugged on Market between 6th and 7th. Broken teeth, concussions. Some friends of friends moved into an apartment in the mission near 20th and Harrison. They got robbed as they were carrying their boxes up the stairs to their new apartment. They didn't stay in SF. I don't consider SF "great"
- rwallace 11y ago
  That sounds surprisingly bad. Are these considered good areas in San Francisco, or slightly iffy, or very dodgy?
  - puredemo 11y ago
    Noe Valley in particular is considered a very upper class area. The rest mentioned are all decent / above average.
    - rwallace 11y ago
      That's pretty grim, then. Are other US cities like that, or is it just San Francisco?
  - calbear81 11y ago
    Noe Valley has a lot more families and is generally seen as pretty safe as it's away from the shadier part of Mission. Japanese tourists getting jumped on Market St. between 6th and 7th is pretty crazy. I work on that block and I'm assuming they were on the SoMa side? There are a lot of crackheads and bums but they don't usually bother people. There are drug dealers across on the tenderloin side but they keep to themselves. Harrison and 20th is in a pretty gentrified area (1 block from popular climbing gym, 1 block from Trick Dog bar) so I'm surprised your friend got robbed there. Mostly a mix of high end condos, industrial warehouses, and cool bars. There is definitely a bit of a gang element in the area though.
sanoli 11y ago
No city is a utopia, of course. Yet there are cities where you can take a stroll downtown on a wednesday night and you'll be fine even if you don't really know where you are. I grew up in Rio de Janeiro, where you have, HAVE to know where you're going, and I also took many long, random strolls in Tokyo after midnight. HUGE difference.
ZoeZoeBee 11y ago
Every city has places you can't go, Detroit has places you can go, the rest you don't belong. I'd invite you to take a stroll from the East side of Detroit to the West Side of Detroit, feel free to choose any route you'd like so long as it is a straight line and tell me how it goes.
jamespitts 11y ago
Totally agree with this. In Detroit there are many areas that have an acceptable street and neighborhood life, and you do have to be in the know. Even upper middle class areas with African Americans living there, and plenty of great working class areas. But these were somewhat outnumbered by the deserted or dangerous areas, a situation totally reversed in most US cities. It is ridiculous to say a city is dangerous. Far better to make a longer but nuanced description.

by smtddr 11y ago

fiatmoney 11y ago

If one has to live there and be familiar with the local geography in order to know precisely how to reduce one's risk of getting carjacked, it's fair to describe it as "dangerous". There is a real difference between "danger with pockets of safety" and the reverse.

smtddr 11y ago
It's just that upper-middle class people tend not to have any street-smarts so they're afraid of any place that doesn't look shiny-and-glamorous..... and eventually, this conversation is going to take us to deeper uncomfortable social issues like this: http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/what-to-do-when-your-app-is-racist http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/what-to-do-when-y... "“rating system based on the personal views of Americans, a people historically known to mask the occasional racist view behind words like ‘dangerous’ ”—or, for that matter, “sketchy.”
adventured 11y ago
As an example, London has plenty of violent crime, car jackings, robberies, rapes, et al. I don't think very many people would categorize it as an unsafe city per se, there are just areas you blatantly want to avoid. That's true of nearly every major city - indeed, there are only a few major cities where that isn't the case.

blisterpeanuts 11y ago

"If you know what parts and stay away from those, you'll be okay." That's only true if the bad guys stay in their own neighborhoods. If the bad guys wander across your path, like for example to mug affluent people downtown or burglarize affluent homes, then you can't guarantee you'll be okay. What's more, it's not really "okay" that 45 people were murdered in one weekend in Chicago or Detroit, regardless of how isolated the ghetto is from the nicer areas. Every murder is a tragedy and rips a hole in the city. Ultimately it comes back to haunt the rest of the residents, no matter how much they may try to not think about it.

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greggman 11y ago

Hmmm, there were two muggings in Noe Valley at the corner of Jersey and Noe when I was there. Yea, I know, anecdote. I heard one of them. It happened within 100 feet of my apartment at the corner. At the time I just thought it was some kids but found out the next day it was a mugging. Had my bike stolen from my garage there. Garage was closed. Also had 4 Japanese co-workers come for GDC and get mugged on Market between 6th and 7th. Broken teeth, concussions. Some friends of friends moved into an apartment in the mission near 20th and Harrison. They got robbed as they were carrying their boxes up the stairs to their new apartment. They didn't stay in SF. I don't consider SF "great"

rwallace 11y ago
That sounds surprisingly bad. Are these considered good areas in San Francisco, or slightly iffy, or very dodgy?
- puredemo 11y ago
  Noe Valley in particular is considered a very upper class area. The rest mentioned are all decent / above average.
  - rwallace 11y ago
    That's pretty grim, then. Are other US cities like that, or is it just San Francisco?
- calbear81 11y ago
  Noe Valley has a lot more families and is generally seen as pretty safe as it's away from the shadier part of Mission. Japanese tourists getting jumped on Market St. between 6th and 7th is pretty crazy. I work on that block and I'm assuming they were on the SoMa side? There are a lot of crackheads and bums but they don't usually bother people. There are drug dealers across on the tenderloin side but they keep to themselves. Harrison and 20th is in a pretty gentrified area (1 block from popular climbing gym, 1 block from Trick Dog bar) so I'm surprised your friend got robbed there. Mostly a mix of high end condos, industrial warehouses, and cool bars. There is definitely a bit of a gang element in the area though.

sanoli 11y ago

No city is a utopia, of course. Yet there are cities where you can take a stroll downtown on a wednesday night and you'll be fine even if you don't really know where you are. I grew up in Rio de Janeiro, where you have, HAVE to know where you're going, and I also took many long, random strolls in Tokyo after midnight. HUGE difference.

ZoeZoeBee 11y ago

Every city has places you can't go, Detroit has places you can go, the rest you don't belong. I'd invite you to take a stroll from the East side of Detroit to the West Side of Detroit, feel free to choose any route you'd like so long as it is a straight line and tell me how it goes.

jamespitts 11y ago

Totally agree with this. In Detroit there are many areas that have an acceptable street and neighborhood life, and you do have to be in the know. Even upper middle class areas with African Americans living there, and plenty of great working class areas. But these were somewhat outnumbered by the deserted or dangerous areas, a situation totally reversed in most US cities. It is ridiculous to say a city is dangerous. Far better to make a longer but nuanced description.