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"Speaking in front of people and working in groups are extremely valuable skills, even for introverts." Yes -- and the problem is that very few places actually

"Speaking in front of people and working in groups are extremely valuable skills, even for introverts." Yes -- and the problem is that very few places actually teach these skills to introverts. Rather, you are supposed to already know them. "This is like saying that people who don't enjoy physical activity should skip P.E. class -- in both cases there is both a developmental and health component at play." It's funny you should bring up PE here, because the same mechanism is usually at play there. PE classes don't focus on the kids who are bad at sports. They focus on those who are already good at it, for whatever reason.

stevesearer 11y ago
When I taught middle school history, I would always sprinkle some time in for in-class silent reading throughout the week. It was always interesting to see that many of the students who were amazingly comfortable in front of the class were unable to sit for 20 minutes and read without blurting something out. In the same way that it is important to actually teach group work and public speaking skills to introverts, it is also important to teach the opposite to extroverts.
marcosdumay 11y ago
How to you teach public speeching and team working? Except by just forcing people to practice them, do you know any other method? Also, PE was all about forcing kids to play some sport. In my experience, it was too much emphasis on playing, and too little emphasis on basic practicing, so nobody really improved on sports, but improvement was never the goal. Anyway that's completely understandable, because basic practicing is boring to most people (even grown-ups).
- stevesearer 11y ago
  There probably needs to be some sort of approach where students can start with something small - perhaps introducing themselves to the class - rather than just jumping into memorizing a 5 minutes speech. Your comments on practice also apply to the classroom and public speaking. It is easy as a teacher to say students need to give eye contact to the class while speaking, but unless they have practiced it and been given time to get better, it will likely be the same scenario you describe in PE with no real improvement.
- jdbernard 11y ago
  Topics worth teaching re. public speaking: 1. How to structure a persuasive narrative, 2. Techniques for focusing on the material you intend to present (minimizing internal distractions), 3. Techniques for dealing with potential distractions externally, 4. How to evaluate your performance objectively (long time to master, but should be introduced early), 5. How to organize your material so that you have an appropriate amount prepared for the time allotted, 6. How to pace your delivery so that you deliver material in a consistent amount of time, 7. Techniques of rhetoric so that you can convey through your performance the emotion you intend (an inspirational speech is as much about how something was said as what, for example), 8. etc. Topics worth teaching re. team work: 1. How to read the level of engagement of other members. 2. How to read the mood of other members. 3. How to be communicate clearly to a group and make sure that you were clearly understood. 4. etc. I could keep going but I'm not developing a course for public speaking or intra-personal communication (teamwork). I could easily find as many topics for teamwork as I did for speaking. All of these things must be developed with practice, sure, but a lot of them don't just spontaneously develop without teaching. I mean, I have been in plenty of group environments among adults who haven't learned these things. We send people to counseling over some of these issues. Practice is only useful if it is mindful: if the students know what they are trying to do. I could throw a ball on an empty field and tell my kids to practice soccer, but they'll learn a lot faster if they receive coaching with their practice.
rjsw 11y ago
One year at school I had a really good PE teacher, in the first lesson he asked the class what we wanted to do, we all replied that we wanted to do 5-a-side football indoors, he organized it. For that year nobody brought sick notes, everybody was there every week and got really fit. After a month or two he started occasionally suggesting other things we might like to try, similar non-contact sports that wouldn't scare off our group of smart boys, by this point we trusted his advice and were happy to try the new things too.
bpyne 11y ago
"It's funny you should bring up PE here, because the same mechanism is usually at play there. PE classes don't focus on the kids who are bad at sports. They focus on those who are already good at it, for whatever reason." It's been a frustration of mine for a while that P.E. stands for Physical Education, but rarely are kids educated about exercise and nutrition. Kids don't learn about exercise increasing endorphins that, in turn, elevate mood. They don't learn about cardiovascular conditioning and how it helps with some asthmatic conditions. Forget about anyone mentioning the role of stretching in our health as we age. Nutrition is neglected entirely, but learning about "carb bombing" and its effect on mood would do a lot of good. Instead they throw a ball around and get out aggression (or try to hide from the kids who are getting out aggression). I read an interview with Anne Hathaway which discussed her training for the Catwoman role. Prior to that role, she hated exercise and thought that just because she was skinny, she was therefore healthy. (Let's ignore that she admitted in another interview to being a heavy smoker for a good portion of her life.) Once her trainer got her past the initial strain of conditioning muscles, she found she liked how she felt when she exercised. I think a lot of people developed a dislike of exercise early in their lives due to an association of exercise with team sports, which developed in PE classes. I think it needs to change.
- lotharbot 11y ago
  Every time I've been in a public school's PE room in the last few years (since I've had my own child) there's been a board on the wall describing what's currently being done at each grade level, and at least some of the time there was information about nutrition. Whenever the kids at my neighboring school are out on the field for PE, they start out by stretching, and the teacher seems to be talking to them about preventing injury and such. It's not perfect by any means, but it seems reasonably age-appropriate.
  - bpyne 11y ago
    I'm glad it's changing. We need to establish in kids' minds that exercise doesn't have to be tedious or scary. People need to see exercise and healthy eating as normal part of life.
- 11y ago

stevesearer 11y ago

When I taught middle school history, I would always sprinkle some time in for in-class silent reading throughout the week. It was always interesting to see that many of the students who were amazingly comfortable in front of the class were unable to sit for 20 minutes and read without blurting something out. In the same way that it is important to actually teach group work and public speaking skills to introverts, it is also important to teach the opposite to extroverts.

marcosdumay 11y ago

How to you teach public speeching and team working? Except by just forcing people to practice them, do you know any other method? Also, PE was all about forcing kids to play some sport. In my experience, it was too much emphasis on playing, and too little emphasis on basic practicing, so nobody really improved on sports, but improvement was never the goal. Anyway that's completely understandable, because basic practicing is boring to most people (even grown-ups).

stevesearer 11y ago
There probably needs to be some sort of approach where students can start with something small - perhaps introducing themselves to the class - rather than just jumping into memorizing a 5 minutes speech. Your comments on practice also apply to the classroom and public speaking. It is easy as a teacher to say students need to give eye contact to the class while speaking, but unless they have practiced it and been given time to get better, it will likely be the same scenario you describe in PE with no real improvement.
jdbernard 11y ago
Topics worth teaching re. public speaking: 1. How to structure a persuasive narrative, 2. Techniques for focusing on the material you intend to present (minimizing internal distractions), 3. Techniques for dealing with potential distractions externally, 4. How to evaluate your performance objectively (long time to master, but should be introduced early), 5. How to organize your material so that you have an appropriate amount prepared for the time allotted, 6. How to pace your delivery so that you deliver material in a consistent amount of time, 7. Techniques of rhetoric so that you can convey through your performance the emotion you intend (an inspirational speech is as much about how something was said as what, for example), 8. etc. Topics worth teaching re. team work: 1. How to read the level of engagement of other members. 2. How to read the mood of other members. 3. How to be communicate clearly to a group and make sure that you were clearly understood. 4. etc. I could keep going but I'm not developing a course for public speaking or intra-personal communication (teamwork). I could easily find as many topics for teamwork as I did for speaking. All of these things must be developed with practice, sure, but a lot of them don't just spontaneously develop without teaching. I mean, I have been in plenty of group environments among adults who haven't learned these things. We send people to counseling over some of these issues. Practice is only useful if it is mindful: if the students know what they are trying to do. I could throw a ball on an empty field and tell my kids to practice soccer, but they'll learn a lot faster if they receive coaching with their practice.

rjsw 11y ago

One year at school I had a really good PE teacher, in the first lesson he asked the class what we wanted to do, we all replied that we wanted to do 5-a-side football indoors, he organized it. For that year nobody brought sick notes, everybody was there every week and got really fit. After a month or two he started occasionally suggesting other things we might like to try, similar non-contact sports that wouldn't scare off our group of smart boys, by this point we trusted his advice and were happy to try the new things too.

bpyne 11y ago

"It's funny you should bring up PE here, because the same mechanism is usually at play there. PE classes don't focus on the kids who are bad at sports. They focus on those who are already good at it, for whatever reason." It's been a frustration of mine for a while that P.E. stands for Physical Education, but rarely are kids educated about exercise and nutrition. Kids don't learn about exercise increasing endorphins that, in turn, elevate mood. They don't learn about cardiovascular conditioning and how it helps with some asthmatic conditions. Forget about anyone mentioning the role of stretching in our health as we age. Nutrition is neglected entirely, but learning about "carb bombing" and its effect on mood would do a lot of good. Instead they throw a ball around and get out aggression (or try to hide from the kids who are getting out aggression). I read an interview with Anne Hathaway which discussed her training for the Catwoman role. Prior to that role, she hated exercise and thought that just because she was skinny, she was therefore healthy. (Let's ignore that she admitted in another interview to being a heavy smoker for a good portion of her life.) Once her trainer got her past the initial strain of conditioning muscles, she found she liked how she felt when she exercised. I think a lot of people developed a dislike of exercise early in their lives due to an association of exercise with team sports, which developed in PE classes. I think it needs to change.

lotharbot 11y ago
Every time I've been in a public school's PE room in the last few years (since I've had my own child) there's been a board on the wall describing what's currently being done at each grade level, and at least some of the time there was information about nutrition. Whenever the kids at my neighboring school are out on the field for PE, they start out by stretching, and the teacher seems to be talking to them about preventing injury and such. It's not perfect by any means, but it seems reasonably age-appropriate.
- bpyne 11y ago
  I'm glad it's changing. We need to establish in kids' minds that exercise doesn't have to be tedious or scary. People need to see exercise and healthy eating as normal part of life.
11y ago