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Is it possible to get what Slack provides using IRC? I mean the whole package, not just the text chat. Consider enterprise-friendliness, excellent mobile client

by rikkus 11y ago

Is it possible to get what Slack provides using IRC? I mean the whole package, not just the text chat. Consider enterprise-friendliness, excellent mobile clients, zero-setup required (no separate keep-you-online relays), really easy integrations, etc.? We are adopting Slack because it's great and I'd have loved to make a case for IRC but I wouldn't know what server to recommend (we don't really want to install it, but we don't want to use a public server), where I can get commercial support, if there's a nice client (like irccloud is) for mobiles - there's a long list, unfortunately.

scrollaway 11y ago
The closest you can get is a foss slack alternative such as Mattermost, and push for an IRC bridge (Mattermost is working on it it seems: https://github.com/mattermost/platform/issues/650 https://github.com/mattermost/platform/issues/650). But it's not possible to get what you're asking without breaking the IRC protocol - it's not easily extended and the formatting rules are icky mIRC crap.
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  Go help with IRCv3 - you're talking about capabilities, which are part of the v3 protocol. http://ircv3.net/specs/core/capability-negotiation-3.2.html http://ircv3.net/specs/core/capability-negotiation-3.2.html
  - XorNot 11y ago
    The trick with capabilities is you need them to be reasonably standard. Which means the go to IRCv3 server should ship with them turned on, and the reference client should be capable of using them.
inopinatus 11y ago
Also in-client searchable archives, media handling, history editing. All require going outside the IRC protocols. IRC was designed by hackers, for hackers and it shows. Twenty years ago, IRC was my talk destination of choice and I operated a server within a major IRC network; these days my startup uses Slack which I determined to be the "least irritating" of the 21st century options. I had high hopes for Google Wave but it was sadly stillborn.
- bjeanes 11y ago
  > I had high hopes for Google Wave but it was sadly stillborn. Yeah me too. Google really effed that one up. RIP
- e12e 11y ago
  Much of that can be had with a IRC bot. That doesn't include media handling, but you could do search via 1-on-1 /msg (query) with a bot. Then it'd truly be "in client" search. Most would probably prefer a web ui, with search -- but recording chat could still be done via a bot. I wouldn't say you could get most of the whole slack experience with just IRC, and you'd probably have to do some work (if only configuring channels/bots/find a web ui etc).
  - inopinatus 11y ago
    This doesn't resolve the multifarious issues with identity, reliability, scalability, federation, standardisation &c &c that further rule IRC out from being the universal panacea.
    - e12e 11y ago
      It depends on the context. You can't federate with Google, Microsoft, Facebook anyway -- and you won't convert the world to use your favourite new protocol (most likely). So that just leaves you with an easier problem: how can I host conversations etc for my team/org/my friends? And I think a single, isolated irc server should work fine for that use case, and work fine with many different irc clients? So no, it's not a universial solution -- I just think it's strange when people bring up slack as somehow "better". Sure it's "better" in that it's a product with backing from some fine people -- but if you wanted a solution based on open standard, Free code that you could self-host without worrying about license costs etc ... then a battle-tested IRC server still seems like a half-decent option? Or put it a different way: if you have 100s of users, could you get many of the features with IRC, and some bots? (Or maybe a slightly tweaked IRC server etc etc)? [ed: Not that I claim there aren't problems with IRC -- and I've yet to run a personal ircd, so I don't know a) how much work it is to force TLS+SASL[1] and disable plain IRC, or b) if there are other solutions that might be better, that are available right now. [1] https://freenode.net/sasl/ https://freenode.net/sasl/ ]
bjeanes 11y ago
Slack's IRC bridge is actually pretty good. I know that's not quite what you're asking, but at least you personally could still interface using IRC.
jwheare2 11y ago
Any reason you rejected IRCCloud? (disclosure: my company). We host private servers for teams and do the majority of what you're asking for.
- hermanradtke 11y ago
  I don't use it because I want to use my own irc client and not a web interface. I want ZNC as a service.
- rikkus 11y ago
  I didn't make the decision. Slack started to appear and I didn't know that IRCCloud had apps (which seem to have great reviews). If I had known, I would have suggested it as an alternative. As it was, I just kept quiet as Slack seemed great - even better than HipChat, which I used to use for the same purpose. Perhaps IRCCloud could be sold as a rebranded Enterprise app as an alternative to Slack? I'd love to see some competition as it looks like only HipChat and Slack are getting talked about.

by rikkus 11y ago

scrollaway 11y ago

The closest you can get is a foss slack alternative such as Mattermost, and push for an IRC bridge (Mattermost is working on it it seems: https://github.com/mattermost/platform/issues/650 https://github.com/mattermost/platform/issues/650). But it's not possible to get what you're asking without breaking the IRC protocol - it's not easily extended and the formatting rules are icky mIRC crap.

voltagex_ 11y ago
Go help with IRCv3 - you're talking about capabilities, which are part of the v3 protocol. http://ircv3.net/specs/core/capability-negotiation-3.2.html http://ircv3.net/specs/core/capability-negotiation-3.2.html
- XorNot 11y ago
  The trick with capabilities is you need them to be reasonably standard. Which means the go to IRCv3 server should ship with them turned on, and the reference client should be capable of using them.

inopinatus 11y ago

Also in-client searchable archives, media handling, history editing. All require going outside the IRC protocols. IRC was designed by hackers, for hackers and it shows. Twenty years ago, IRC was my talk destination of choice and I operated a server within a major IRC network; these days my startup uses Slack which I determined to be the "least irritating" of the 21st century options. I had high hopes for Google Wave but it was sadly stillborn.

bjeanes 11y ago
> I had high hopes for Google Wave but it was sadly stillborn. Yeah me too. Google really effed that one up. RIP
e12e 11y ago
Much of that can be had with a IRC bot. That doesn't include media handling, but you could do search via 1-on-1 /msg (query) with a bot. Then it'd truly be "in client" search. Most would probably prefer a web ui, with search -- but recording chat could still be done via a bot. I wouldn't say you could get most of the whole slack experience with just IRC, and you'd probably have to do some work (if only configuring channels/bots/find a web ui etc).
- inopinatus 11y ago
  This doesn't resolve the multifarious issues with identity, reliability, scalability, federation, standardisation &c &c that further rule IRC out from being the universal panacea.
  - e12e 11y ago
    It depends on the context. You can't federate with Google, Microsoft, Facebook anyway -- and you won't convert the world to use your favourite new protocol (most likely). So that just leaves you with an easier problem: how can I host conversations etc for my team/org/my friends? And I think a single, isolated irc server should work fine for that use case, and work fine with many different irc clients? So no, it's not a universial solution -- I just think it's strange when people bring up slack as somehow "better". Sure it's "better" in that it's a product with backing from some fine people -- but if you wanted a solution based on open standard, Free code that you could self-host without worrying about license costs etc ... then a battle-tested IRC server still seems like a half-decent option? Or put it a different way: if you have 100s of users, could you get many of the features with IRC, and some bots? (Or maybe a slightly tweaked IRC server etc etc)? [ed: Not that I claim there aren't problems with IRC -- and I've yet to run a personal ircd, so I don't know a) how much work it is to force TLS+SASL[1] and disable plain IRC, or b) if there are other solutions that might be better, that are available right now. [1] https://freenode.net/sasl/ https://freenode.net/sasl/ ]

bjeanes 11y ago

Slack's IRC bridge is actually pretty good. I know that's not quite what you're asking, but at least you personally could still interface using IRC.

jwheare2 11y ago

Any reason you rejected IRCCloud? (disclosure: my company). We host private servers for teams and do the majority of what you're asking for.

hermanradtke 11y ago
I don't use it because I want to use my own irc client and not a web interface. I want ZNC as a service.
rikkus 11y ago
I didn't make the decision. Slack started to appear and I didn't know that IRCCloud had apps (which seem to have great reviews). If I had known, I would have suggested it as an alternative. As it was, I just kept quiet as Slack seemed great - even better than HipChat, which I used to use for the same purpose. Perhaps IRCCloud could be sold as a rebranded Enterprise app as an alternative to Slack? I'd love to see some competition as it looks like only HipChat and Slack are getting talked about.