4 ms·

From another leaked memo (or maybe the same memo): Although “the legislative environment is very hostile today, it could turn in the event of a terrori

From another leaked memo (or maybe the same memo): Although “the legislative environment is very hostile today, it could turn in the event of a terrorist attack or criminal event where strong encryption can be shown to have hindered law enforcement.” There is value, he said, in “keeping our options open for such a situation.” In other words, he was hoping for a terrorist attack that could be used as a flag to push anti-encryption legislation. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/tech-trade-agencies-push-to-disavow-law-requiring-decryption-of-phones/2015/09/16/1fca5f72-5adf-11e5-b38e-06883aacba64_story.html?postshare=9031442410909976 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/tech-...

sehugg 11y ago
I wouldn't go that far. This is ODNI's General Counsel saying that they would prefer to defer public attacks -- er, debate -- on any specific plan until a crisis occurs, at which point opposition will be muted. They can then take advantage of the climate to go full court press with whatever strategy has been preselected. Whether "preparing to leverage" is worse than "hoping" is up for debate.
- pdeuchler 11y ago
  That's a rather pedantic difference. What you're essentially saying is they just used weasel words that gives them an out instead of just blatantly saying what they mean.
happyscrappy 11y ago
If there is a successful attack politicians will be questioned about why they did not do more, no conspiracy needed. Is it dangerous to have encryption keys stored? Of course, but the danger is mostly that they will be stolen not used by the government, although that is still a risk but smaller.
- mentat 11y ago
  I'm curious how / why you trust the government, which is made up of people with various agendas.
  - happyscrappy 11y ago
    I don't, I said it is a threat, but the bigger threat is someone else getting them. Every group is made of people with various agendas so that is a pretty vapid statement.
    - burntsushi 11y ago
      > I don't, I said it is a threat, but the bigger threat is someone else getting them. I see no reason to accept this as prima facie true. If you look over the course of history, most of the world's violence has occurred at the hands of a state, religion or combination of the two.
    - merpnderp 11y ago
      Weren't there around 100 million people murdered by their governments in the 20th century? That's got to be right up there with malaria.
misterbwong 11y ago
You say "hoping" but the quote reads to me like he's making sure they are prepared. Even Obama's staunchest critics don't actually think that the President of the US is hoping for a terrorist attack.
- jakeogh 11y ago
  Power attacking (or planning to attack) its self to further it's agenda is not unprecedented. In the most famious case, it was the President that put a stop to the plan. See Operation Northwoods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods and the Strategy of Tension.
bko 11y ago
This is unfortunately an old idea expressed openly by politicians in the US. Rahm Emanuel, President Obama's former chief of staff was quoted as saying: > You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before At least he's honest about his political opportunism.
- zaidf 11y ago
  This is not necessarily bad by default. There do exist inherently good things that do not have public support or the support is muted until there is a crisis. For those items, a crisis is an opportunity to come out ahead at least as it relates to those good things which now have support.
  - bko 11y ago
    Sure, in theory. I just think politicians should be honest and transparent with their intentions. Don't treat the public like little children that need to be manipulated into accepting what the politician deems as good. And historically, I would argue that crisis has been used primarily to consolidate political power, and fuel nationalism (Japanese internment camps, Iraq war, government surveillance etc)
elchief 11y ago
This is known as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine
godgod 11y ago
One could argue that governments do false flags all the time. Create the terror then swoop in with draconian laws to further control their population. http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/07/08/419371/Turkey-NSA-Syria-Erdogan-Davutoglu http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/07/08/419371/Turkey-NSA-S...

sehugg 11y ago

I wouldn't go that far. This is ODNI's General Counsel saying that they would prefer to defer public attacks -- er, debate -- on any specific plan until a crisis occurs, at which point opposition will be muted. They can then take advantage of the climate to go full court press with whatever strategy has been preselected. Whether "preparing to leverage" is worse than "hoping" is up for debate.

pdeuchler 11y ago
That's a rather pedantic difference. What you're essentially saying is they just used weasel words that gives them an out instead of just blatantly saying what they mean.

happyscrappy 11y ago

If there is a successful attack politicians will be questioned about why they did not do more, no conspiracy needed. Is it dangerous to have encryption keys stored? Of course, but the danger is mostly that they will be stolen not used by the government, although that is still a risk but smaller.

mentat 11y ago
I'm curious how / why you trust the government, which is made up of people with various agendas.
- happyscrappy 11y ago
  I don't, I said it is a threat, but the bigger threat is someone else getting them. Every group is made of people with various agendas so that is a pretty vapid statement.
  - burntsushi 11y ago
    > I don't, I said it is a threat, but the bigger threat is someone else getting them. I see no reason to accept this as prima facie true. If you look over the course of history, most of the world's violence has occurred at the hands of a state, religion or combination of the two.
  - merpnderp 11y ago
    Weren't there around 100 million people murdered by their governments in the 20th century? That's got to be right up there with malaria.

misterbwong 11y ago

You say "hoping" but the quote reads to me like he's making sure they are prepared. Even Obama's staunchest critics don't actually think that the President of the US is hoping for a terrorist attack.

jakeogh 11y ago
Power attacking (or planning to attack) its self to further it's agenda is not unprecedented. In the most famious case, it was the President that put a stop to the plan. See Operation Northwoods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods and the Strategy of Tension.

bko 11y ago

This is unfortunately an old idea expressed openly by politicians in the US. Rahm Emanuel, President Obama's former chief of staff was quoted as saying: > You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before At least he's honest about his political opportunism.

zaidf 11y ago
This is not necessarily bad by default. There do exist inherently good things that do not have public support or the support is muted until there is a crisis. For those items, a crisis is an opportunity to come out ahead at least as it relates to those good things which now have support.
- bko 11y ago
  Sure, in theory. I just think politicians should be honest and transparent with their intentions. Don't treat the public like little children that need to be manipulated into accepting what the politician deems as good. And historically, I would argue that crisis has been used primarily to consolidate political power, and fuel nationalism (Japanese internment camps, Iraq war, government surveillance etc)

elchief 11y ago

This is known as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shock_Doctrine

godgod 11y ago

One could argue that governments do false flags all the time. Create the terror then swoop in with draconian laws to further control their population. http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/07/08/419371/Turkey-NSA-Syria-Erdogan-Davutoglu http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2015/07/08/419371/Turkey-NSA-S...