8 ms·

Yes, impulsive, creative, wild, dangerous, bored people doing riskier things have 2x mortality. There's a lot of things that'll increase it a lot more -- like d

Yes, impulsive, creative, wild, dangerous, bored people doing riskier things have 2x mortality. There's a lot of things that'll increase it a lot more -- like different geolocations.

lighthawk 11y ago
I agree that this shouldn't be a surprise. What I'm more interested in is whether the medication used to treat ADD/ADHD could have an adverse health effect that would reduce lifespan, i.e. if they ignore accidental deaths completely, will those on ADD/ADHD meds live just as long as those that do not take those meds?
- lfowles 11y ago
  For stimulants: increased blood pressure. I've had to switch several times because I wasn't able to get to an effective dose without sitting firmly in prehypertension bp levels.
  - PhasmaFelis 11y ago
    True, although--if this isn't obvious--this won't necessarily matter if you're not prone to high blood pressure. I've got several risk factors as well as ADHD, but even with daily stimulants my blood pressure is comfortably within the healthy range.
    - lfowles 11y ago
      Right, and even then.... I now don't have the impulse to go get soda and snack food at the convenience store nearby to kill time. I also find it easier to plan meals and follow through. So, net positive as far as lifespan.
wjnc 11y ago
A thing with this study is that they measure survival mostly in an age bracket with relatively low chance of death, but also in a bracket where chances of death by accidents due to lifestyle are relatively high. A base death rate of 2.2 per 10k years is one per 4500 years. Since you live about 80 years, the sample is skewed towards the not-so-likely to die. Perfectly acceptable btw, but it makes inferences to what happens to the life expectancy Curve harder. My prior would be: the cumulative survival curve for ADHD is markedly lower in the ages 5-30s (one dies more often when at risk due to accidents), and then converging to the curve UNLESS the medicines are harmful as well. My point in other words: aMRR is a fine measure, but you really want to identify causes to shifts in (parts of) the survival function. For now it's a finding that just confirms prior beliefs. [edit] Confirmation by the same author [1]. All that would be cool now is estimates of survival functions. They must have some people in their dataset dying of old age. "Children with ADHD had an increased risk of injuries compared with other children. Treatment with ADHD drugs reduced the risk of injuries by up to 43% and emergency ward visits by up to 45% in children with ADHD. Taken together with previous findings of accidents being the most common cause of death in individuals with ADHD, these results are of major public health importance." [1] http://pure.au.dk/portal/en/persons/soeren-dalsgaard(9da04734-659f-4d4e-bae8-a6ca57c22f05)/publications/effect-of-drugs-on-the-risk-of-injuries-in-children-with-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-a-prospective-cohort-study(80d398f9-9a15-48c3-bc55-83eef1e497fd).html http://pure.au.dk/portal/en/persons/soeren-dalsgaard(9da0473...
danellis 11y ago
I think I probably have ADHD, and this didn't surprise me. One of the symptoms appears to be a problem with executive function where there's a disconnect between recognizing risk and taking appropriate action to mitigate it. So many times I find myself cursing my stupidity when some foreseen accident actually ends up happening. Fortunately, as you might have already assumed, it hasn't been fatal yet.
- jasonlotito 11y ago
  > I think I probably have ADHD Do not think, know. Get checked and officially diagnosed. Otherwise, you are doing yourself and others harm. We test code, we should test ourselves.
  - danellis 11y ago
    I've been looking into it, but it looks like it's going to cost several hundred dollars, which would be fine if I knew I was getting something out of that, but it's a lot of money just to be told, "No, it must be something else."
    - atemerev 11y ago
      You will.
      - danellis 11y ago
        Well, true, any information is useful, I guess.
    - derefr 11y ago
      Note that all a psychiatrist does for adults to determine whether they have ADHD is give them a self-reporting questionnaire. You can find sample questionnaires and diagnostic criteria for interpreting them in a couple of places online. In other words, if you're honest with yourself when you answer, you can know exactly what a psychiatrist will say without having to go. The one thing that might not be mentioned on such sites is that people being tested for ADHD are also given an inventory for anxiety disorders, sometimes mixed into the ADHD questions. Anxiety looks like ADHD in some ways but is treated differently; effectively, in order for an ADHD diagnosis to "count", you have to be not-overly-anxious.

Yes, impulsive, creative, wild, dangerous, bored people doing riskier things have 2x mortality. There's a lot of things that'll increase it a lot more -- like different geolocations.

lighthawk 11y ago

I agree that this shouldn't be a surprise. What I'm more interested in is whether the medication used to treat ADD/ADHD could have an adverse health effect that would reduce lifespan, i.e. if they ignore accidental deaths completely, will those on ADD/ADHD meds live just as long as those that do not take those meds?

lfowles 11y ago
For stimulants: increased blood pressure. I've had to switch several times because I wasn't able to get to an effective dose without sitting firmly in prehypertension bp levels.
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago
  True, although--if this isn't obvious--this won't necessarily matter if you're not prone to high blood pressure. I've got several risk factors as well as ADHD, but even with daily stimulants my blood pressure is comfortably within the healthy range.
  - lfowles 11y ago
    Right, and even then.... I now don't have the impulse to go get soda and snack food at the convenience store nearby to kill time. I also find it easier to plan meals and follow through. So, net positive as far as lifespan.

wjnc 11y ago

A thing with this study is that they measure survival mostly in an age bracket with relatively low chance of death, but also in a bracket where chances of death by accidents due to lifestyle are relatively high. A base death rate of 2.2 per 10k years is one per 4500 years. Since you live about 80 years, the sample is skewed towards the not-so-likely to die. Perfectly acceptable btw, but it makes inferences to what happens to the life expectancy Curve harder. My prior would be: the cumulative survival curve for ADHD is markedly lower in the ages 5-30s (one dies more often when at risk due to accidents), and then converging to the curve UNLESS the medicines are harmful as well. My point in other words: aMRR is a fine measure, but you really want to identify causes to shifts in (parts of) the survival function. For now it's a finding that just confirms prior beliefs. [edit] Confirmation by the same author [1]. All that would be cool now is estimates of survival functions. They must have some people in their dataset dying of old age. "Children with ADHD had an increased risk of injuries compared with other children. Treatment with ADHD drugs reduced the risk of injuries by up to 43% and emergency ward visits by up to 45% in children with ADHD. Taken together with previous findings of accidents being the most common cause of death in individuals with ADHD, these results are of major public health importance." [1] http://pure.au.dk/portal/en/persons/soeren-dalsgaard(9da04734-659f-4d4e-bae8-a6ca57c22f05)/publications/effect-of-drugs-on-the-risk-of-injuries-in-children-with-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-a-prospective-cohort-study(80d398f9-9a15-48c3-bc55-83eef1e497fd).html http://pure.au.dk/portal/en/persons/soeren-dalsgaard(9da0473...

danellis 11y ago

I think I probably have ADHD, and this didn't surprise me. One of the symptoms appears to be a problem with executive function where there's a disconnect between recognizing risk and taking appropriate action to mitigate it. So many times I find myself cursing my stupidity when some foreseen accident actually ends up happening. Fortunately, as you might have already assumed, it hasn't been fatal yet.

jasonlotito 11y ago
> I think I probably have ADHD Do not think, know. Get checked and officially diagnosed. Otherwise, you are doing yourself and others harm. We test code, we should test ourselves.
- danellis 11y ago
  I've been looking into it, but it looks like it's going to cost several hundred dollars, which would be fine if I knew I was getting something out of that, but it's a lot of money just to be told, "No, it must be something else."
  - atemerev 11y ago
    You will.
    - danellis 11y ago
      Well, true, any information is useful, I guess.
  - derefr 11y ago
    Note that all a psychiatrist does for adults to determine whether they have ADHD is give them a self-reporting questionnaire. You can find sample questionnaires and diagnostic criteria for interpreting them in a couple of places online. In other words, if you're honest with yourself when you answer, you can know exactly what a psychiatrist will say without having to go. The one thing that might not be mentioned on such sites is that people being tested for ADHD are also given an inventory for anxiety disorders, sometimes mixed into the ADHD questions. Anxiety looks like ADHD in some ways but is treated differently; effectively, in order for an ADHD diagnosis to "count", you have to be not-overly-anxious.