8 ms·

L.A. to declare 'state of emergency' on homelessness

69 points by flannery 11y ago

Axsuul 11y ago
I'm really glad to see this issue on the front page. I live in downtown LA and I'm on the front lines of this epidemic. It does seem like the situation is getting worse. I wonder if technology can somehow play a role here. I would gladly fund some of the "regulars" around here via some type of Watsi-esque solution.
- icebraining 11y ago
  I wonder if technology can somehow play a role here. I would gladly fund some of the "regulars" around here via some type of Watsi-esque solution. That's what HandUp (https://handup.org/ https://handup.org/) is doing.
  - vjoshi 11y ago
    I think it can. I think if we are absolutely fine with sponsoring animals and finding them new homes etc .. why not apply a similar model for homeless people? An organisation can tailor a plan best fit to each individual and crowd funding can help get them on their feet .. states sponsorships/grants etc can surely be utilised here also for training schemes etc. So now it's not just about giving someone a roof over their head but a life back. Well, this is off the top of my head, could use some input obvs but allow the talking. Let's get started :)
- MaxScheiber 11y ago
  Palantir's philanthropy engineering team works with an organization called Community Solutions to help shelter the homeless.[0][1] (Full disclosure, I interned on this team last year.) [0] http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/01/data-and-homelessness http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/01/da... [1] https://www.palantir.com/2015/01/housing-homeless-veterans-with-palantir-homelink/ https://www.palantir.com/2015/01/housing-homeless-veterans-w...
cbeach 11y ago
House prices rise because an area is prospering. Those with no investment in the area are forced to move to an area they can afford. Such is life for all of us.
- zyxley 11y ago
  > are forced to move to an area they can afford And what about the people who can't afford to move in the first place?
  - vjoshi 11y ago
    zyxley, you took the words right out of my mouth .. Relative poverty is just not considered important enough in this world by some to do something about .. but then when that very person who could have been helped earlier on isn't, the media cry a river over their worsened condition and misfortune.
yurylifshits 11y ago
San Francisco should do something too. I'd love pay an extra tax to fund solutions to this massive problem.
- jakeogh 11y ago
  I donate to people, but is forcing (violently if necessary) other people to do the same ethical? Aren't there better ways?
  - tormeh 11y ago
    Yes.
  - alkonaut 11y ago
    > .. is forcing [...] ethical? In a democracy taxes would be considered ethical, by most. Even for redistribution. > Aren't there better ways? There could be. Do you know any? Use your vote.
    - jakeogh 11y ago
      There's not much to be changed, just make donations voluntary. People are better off deciding where to spend their money. Politicians can ask for it, and spend what they get. Obviously (judging from approval ratings) they will need to make more articulate arguments. Resources would be better spent.
      - alkonaut 11y ago
        I don't think you could find democratic support for replacing taxes with voluntary donations... Everyone has an Ayn Rand period, almost everyone grows out of it. Don't worry.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        11y ago
thangalin 11y ago
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free Technology to expedite housing construction would be helpful.
elcct 11y ago
Why exactly homelessness is a problem?
- DanBC 11y ago
  Homelessness and people being vulnerably housed are useful indicators of poor availability of mental health treatment; of poor availability of drug and alcohol treatment; of a lack of rehabilitation in criminal justice; of predatory and aggressive debt chasing; etc. There's a lot of misinformation and stigma around people who are vulnerably housed (often along the lines of "they did it themselves") so by by creating a culture that helps homeless people you're helping a potential future-you.
  - elcct 11y ago
    Of course they are indicators, but why exactly this is a problem? What homeless people actually do so that you don't want them to be what they are?
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Why is it a problem that people with mental illness do not get treatment? That's a problem because it means they, and their family, suffer unnecessarily. It's a problem because early intervention is cheaper and more likely to be effective. > What homeless people actually do so that you don't want them to be what they are? Homeless people suffer. I don't like to see people suffer. I want to help people who are suffering so that their suffering stops.
      - elcct 11y ago
        > That's a problem because it means they, and their family, suffer unnecessarily. It's a problem because early intervention is cheaper and more likely to be effective. And why is that your business? > Homeless people suffer. I don't like to see people suffer. I want to help people who are suffering so that their suffering stops. Homelessness is a lifestyle for majority of homeless people. What if you don't like other lifestyles? Would you as well go trying to "help", because you don't like it?
EnderMB 11y ago
I remember reading something about how one of the biggest hurdles of tackling homelessness is dealing with those who were made homeless through a history of mental illness. If someone suffers homelessness due to mental illness, I'm sure that chucking them in with a bunch of other homeless people in a shared home isn't going to fix the problem, so it'll be interesting to see how these people will be treated. $100m isn't really a lot, but if that money can be offered to help people that need more than money and a roof over their head, it could do some genuine good.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Rates of mental illness are higher in the homeless population than the general population. But it's important to recognise that most homeless or vulnerably housed people do not have a mental illness; and that sometimes it's the homelessness that has caused the mental health problem. I totally agree that the solution is not "just build more homes", but needs to include better access to debt management; better access to drug and alcohol rehab; better access to work; and better access to MH treatment. http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pdf http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pd... > According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness. In comparison, only 6% of Americans are severely mentally ill (National Institute of Mental Health, 2009). In a 2008 survey performed by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, 25 cities were asked for the three largest causes of homelessness in their communities. Mental illness was the third largest cause of homelessness for single adults (mentioned by 48% of cities). For homeless families, mental illness was mentioned by 12% of cities as one of the top 3 causes of homelessness
  - akshatpradhan 11y ago
    >But it's important to recognise that most homeless or vulnerably housed people do not have a mental illness This can't be right. A previous HN discussed how "almost half of homeless men had traumatic brain injury in their lifetime" Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648933
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
chvid 11y ago
Funny how leaders rather would declare "state of emergency" than alter the city planning that causes too little housing to be built.
- XorNot 11y ago
  That's not really how homelessness tends to work though.
Omniusaspirer 11y ago
These cities create the homeless problem by enabling the lifestyle. It's a taboo thing to say but spend enough time in different locations and you learn very quickly that the homeless are shameless opportunists who go wherever they can most leech off society. My entire childhood growing up I never saw a single homeless person despite growing up in an impoverished rural area. It was viciously cold outside in the winter and people were very quick to take advantage of local services and get themselves back to a position where they could afford shelter. These days I live in Ann Arbor and we have a fairly serious homeless problem (I get harassed on the street nearly every time I walk downtown). The city itself offers excellent resources for the homeless to both survive and "get back on their feet", a situation that has not gone unnoticed by surrounding districts which have literally loaded up vans with homeless people and driven them 40 miles to dump them in Ann Arbor. http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/11/ann_arbor_homeless_shelter_rep.html#incart_river http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/11/ann_ar... The homeless are absolutely a problem, but you're naive if you think anything done to address the problem on a per city basis is going to fix anything. This is a national issue that calls for expanded mental services, more rehabilitation, and strict policing. Anything done on a smaller level will just encourage migration of homeless to take advantage. EDIT: I'm fine with downvoting, but I do ask that you give me solid factual and evidence based arguments for why my point is wrong. Implying I lack compassion is neither accurate or a useful discussion of how to address this problem, and that's where my interest lies when I make a comment like this.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > My entire childhood growing up I never saw a single homeless person despite growing up in an impoverished rural area You didn't look hard enough. Here's an article about homeless people in Ulan Bator, where temperatures reach -40. http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/underground-and-off-the-radar-in-ulan-bator/ http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/underground-and-off... http://visura.co/user/MikeA/view/40-96 http://visura.co/user/MikeA/view/40-96
  - Omniusaspirer 11y ago
    >Evangelical groups, he said, lure the homeless with offers of food, clothing and showers. But their promises of salvation are ignored, with the men resting inside for a few days before returning to the streets and their stupors. The government, he said, has one hospital where alcoholics are taken for up to two years. But there are few opportunities for work once they get out, so the path often leads back to the streets and drink. If they choose to stay in that position and I never see them that's still a massive net positive. If people want to get obliterated by their addictions and ignore any help available to them then it's silly to interfere with or enable that lifestyle. At that point they've made a choice and I expect the local police to deal with the problem of homeless aggression and harassment. Make help available, and if they choose not to take advantage then continue to remind them help is available while at the same time keeping them from being a public nuisance. To give you a personal experience: I was followed for a full block and cussed out by a homeless guy just the other day, a choice quote was "it's fuckin Ann Arbor man I know you got money!". My crime? "Sorry, I don't have anything for you, there's a shelter nearby that could really help you out". These people are a problem, and it's not just because they're "suffering". No individual city is going to fix this problem, and frankly no country is going to fully fix it either. Denmark for example still has a sizable homeless problem despite a massive amount of help available simply because some people choose to be chronically homeless.
6t6t6 11y ago
Is there any way a person with a mental illness get a proper treatment in US? I mean, for some one who is unable to work because he has, for instance, schizophrenia, clinical depression or alcoholism, is there any option apart from indigence?
- sandworm101 11y ago
  Jail and/or prison. That is where many of them end up. Some judges would rather see someone get "treatment" in custody than get nothing on the street.
  - anon4 11y ago
    Jail is different from prison how?
    - neverminder 11y ago
      In context of US: http://sheriff.org/faqs/displayfaq.cfm?id=4f892698-5c5d-40f8-b159-c9a0b6ed66f3 http://sheriff.org/faqs/displayfaq.cfm?id=4f892698-5c5d-40f8...
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Roughly Americans use prison to refer to places where people are held after being sentenced, and jail to refer to where people are held before sentencing. Or sometimes jail refers to short sentences. http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=31513 http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=31513 In England we'd tend to use prison or jail for prisons and "on remand" for people awaiting trial or sentencing, and "police cells" for other stuff. In the US a lot of prisons have high populations of people with mental illness. See, for example, the use of prisoners to care for other prisoners who have dementia. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/health/dealing-with-dementia-among-aging-criminals.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/health/dealing-with-dement...
    - sandworm101 11y ago
      Jail is for pre-trial sentencing and sentences under one year. So many of the people have not been convicted. Jails spend most of their energies sorting people into various risk categories. There are few if any 'treatment' programs in jails. Prisons are where people actually serve meaningful time. Everyone is in for at least a year and everyone is an actually convicted criminal, not just someone awaiting trial.
ilaksh 11y ago
http://runvnc.github.io/tinyvillage/ http://runvnc.github.io/tinyvillage/
happyscrappy 11y ago
In the US you cannot forcibly put someone in a homeless shelter, if they refuse to go there is nothing you can do about it. People die on the streets in Boston every year because of this but it would be impossible to pass a law forcing them.
vjoshi 11y ago
To add, seems things are going in the right direction after all: http://refhubuk.wix.com/refhub http://refhubuk.wix.com/refhub

69 points by flannery 11y ago

I'm really glad to see this issue on the front page. I live in downtown LA and I'm on the front lines of this epidemic. It does seem like the situation is getting worse. I wonder if technology can somehow play a role here. I would gladly fund some of the "regulars" around here via some type of Watsi-esque solution.

icebraining 11y ago
I wonder if technology can somehow play a role here. I would gladly fund some of the "regulars" around here via some type of Watsi-esque solution. That's what HandUp (https://handup.org/ https://handup.org/) is doing.
- vjoshi 11y ago
  I think it can. I think if we are absolutely fine with sponsoring animals and finding them new homes etc .. why not apply a similar model for homeless people? An organisation can tailor a plan best fit to each individual and crowd funding can help get them on their feet .. states sponsorships/grants etc can surely be utilised here also for training schemes etc. So now it's not just about giving someone a roof over their head but a life back. Well, this is off the top of my head, could use some input obvs but allow the talking. Let's get started :)
MaxScheiber 11y ago
Palantir's philanthropy engineering team works with an organization called Community Solutions to help shelter the homeless.[0][1] (Full disclosure, I interned on this team last year.) [0] http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/01/data-and-homelessness http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2015/01/da... [1] https://www.palantir.com/2015/01/housing-homeless-veterans-with-palantir-homelink/ https://www.palantir.com/2015/01/housing-homeless-veterans-w...

cbeach 11y ago

House prices rise because an area is prospering. Those with no investment in the area are forced to move to an area they can afford. Such is life for all of us.

zyxley 11y ago
> are forced to move to an area they can afford And what about the people who can't afford to move in the first place?
- vjoshi 11y ago
  zyxley, you took the words right out of my mouth .. Relative poverty is just not considered important enough in this world by some to do something about .. but then when that very person who could have been helped earlier on isn't, the media cry a river over their worsened condition and misfortune.

yurylifshits 11y ago

San Francisco should do something too. I'd love pay an extra tax to fund solutions to this massive problem.

jakeogh 11y ago
I donate to people, but is forcing (violently if necessary) other people to do the same ethical? Aren't there better ways?
- tormeh 11y ago
  Yes.
- alkonaut 11y ago
  > .. is forcing [...] ethical? In a democracy taxes would be considered ethical, by most. Even for redistribution. > Aren't there better ways? There could be. Do you know any? Use your vote.
  - jakeogh 11y ago
    There's not much to be changed, just make donations voluntary. People are better off deciding where to spend their money. Politicians can ask for it, and spend what they get. Obviously (judging from approval ratings) they will need to make more articulate arguments. Resources would be better spent.
    - alkonaut 11y ago
      I don't think you could find democratic support for replacing taxes with voluntary donations... Everyone has an Ayn Rand period, almost everyone grows out of it. Don't worry.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - 11y ago

thangalin 11y ago

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/09/22/home-free Technology to expedite housing construction would be helpful.

elcct 11y ago

Why exactly homelessness is a problem?

DanBC 11y ago
Homelessness and people being vulnerably housed are useful indicators of poor availability of mental health treatment; of poor availability of drug and alcohol treatment; of a lack of rehabilitation in criminal justice; of predatory and aggressive debt chasing; etc. There's a lot of misinformation and stigma around people who are vulnerably housed (often along the lines of "they did it themselves") so by by creating a culture that helps homeless people you're helping a potential future-you.
- elcct 11y ago
  Of course they are indicators, but why exactly this is a problem? What homeless people actually do so that you don't want them to be what they are?
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Why is it a problem that people with mental illness do not get treatment? That's a problem because it means they, and their family, suffer unnecessarily. It's a problem because early intervention is cheaper and more likely to be effective. > What homeless people actually do so that you don't want them to be what they are? Homeless people suffer. I don't like to see people suffer. I want to help people who are suffering so that their suffering stops.
    - elcct 11y ago
      > That's a problem because it means they, and their family, suffer unnecessarily. It's a problem because early intervention is cheaper and more likely to be effective. And why is that your business? > Homeless people suffer. I don't like to see people suffer. I want to help people who are suffering so that their suffering stops. Homelessness is a lifestyle for majority of homeless people. What if you don't like other lifestyles? Would you as well go trying to "help", because you don't like it?

EnderMB 11y ago

I remember reading something about how one of the biggest hurdles of tackling homelessness is dealing with those who were made homeless through a history of mental illness. If someone suffers homelessness due to mental illness, I'm sure that chucking them in with a bunch of other homeless people in a shared home isn't going to fix the problem, so it'll be interesting to see how these people will be treated. $100m isn't really a lot, but if that money can be offered to help people that need more than money and a roof over their head, it could do some genuine good.

DanBC 11y ago
Rates of mental illness are higher in the homeless population than the general population. But it's important to recognise that most homeless or vulnerably housed people do not have a mental illness; and that sometimes it's the homelessness that has caused the mental health problem. I totally agree that the solution is not "just build more homes", but needs to include better access to debt management; better access to drug and alcohol rehab; better access to work; and better access to MH treatment. http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pdf http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/Mental_Illness.pd... > According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness. In comparison, only 6% of Americans are severely mentally ill (National Institute of Mental Health, 2009). In a 2008 survey performed by the U.S. Conference of Mayors, 25 cities were asked for the three largest causes of homelessness in their communities. Mental illness was the third largest cause of homelessness for single adults (mentioned by 48% of cities). For homeless families, mental illness was mentioned by 12% of cities as one of the top 3 causes of homelessness
- akshatpradhan 11y ago
  >But it's important to recognise that most homeless or vulnerably housed people do not have a mental illness This can't be right. A previous HN discussed how "almost half of homeless men had traumatic brain injury in their lifetime" Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7648933

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

chvid 11y ago

Funny how leaders rather would declare "state of emergency" than alter the city planning that causes too little housing to be built.

XorNot 11y ago
That's not really how homelessness tends to work though.

Omniusaspirer 11y ago

These cities create the homeless problem by enabling the lifestyle. It's a taboo thing to say but spend enough time in different locations and you learn very quickly that the homeless are shameless opportunists who go wherever they can most leech off society. My entire childhood growing up I never saw a single homeless person despite growing up in an impoverished rural area. It was viciously cold outside in the winter and people were very quick to take advantage of local services and get themselves back to a position where they could afford shelter. These days I live in Ann Arbor and we have a fairly serious homeless problem (I get harassed on the street nearly every time I walk downtown). The city itself offers excellent resources for the homeless to both survive and "get back on their feet", a situation that has not gone unnoticed by surrounding districts which have literally loaded up vans with homeless people and driven them 40 miles to dump them in Ann Arbor. http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/11/ann_arbor_homeless_shelter_rep.html#incart_river http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/11/ann_ar... The homeless are absolutely a problem, but you're naive if you think anything done to address the problem on a per city basis is going to fix anything. This is a national issue that calls for expanded mental services, more rehabilitation, and strict policing. Anything done on a smaller level will just encourage migration of homeless to take advantage. EDIT: I'm fine with downvoting, but I do ask that you give me solid factual and evidence based arguments for why my point is wrong. Implying I lack compassion is neither accurate or a useful discussion of how to address this problem, and that's where my interest lies when I make a comment like this.

DanBC 11y ago
> My entire childhood growing up I never saw a single homeless person despite growing up in an impoverished rural area You didn't look hard enough. Here's an article about homeless people in Ulan Bator, where temperatures reach -40. http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/underground-and-off-the-radar-in-ulan-bator/ http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/07/underground-and-off... http://visura.co/user/MikeA/view/40-96 http://visura.co/user/MikeA/view/40-96
- Omniusaspirer 11y ago
  >Evangelical groups, he said, lure the homeless with offers of food, clothing and showers. But their promises of salvation are ignored, with the men resting inside for a few days before returning to the streets and their stupors. The government, he said, has one hospital where alcoholics are taken for up to two years. But there are few opportunities for work once they get out, so the path often leads back to the streets and drink. If they choose to stay in that position and I never see them that's still a massive net positive. If people want to get obliterated by their addictions and ignore any help available to them then it's silly to interfere with or enable that lifestyle. At that point they've made a choice and I expect the local police to deal with the problem of homeless aggression and harassment. Make help available, and if they choose not to take advantage then continue to remind them help is available while at the same time keeping them from being a public nuisance. To give you a personal experience: I was followed for a full block and cussed out by a homeless guy just the other day, a choice quote was "it's fuckin Ann Arbor man I know you got money!". My crime? "Sorry, I don't have anything for you, there's a shelter nearby that could really help you out". These people are a problem, and it's not just because they're "suffering". No individual city is going to fix this problem, and frankly no country is going to fully fix it either. Denmark for example still has a sizable homeless problem despite a massive amount of help available simply because some people choose to be chronically homeless.

6t6t6 11y ago

Is there any way a person with a mental illness get a proper treatment in US? I mean, for some one who is unable to work because he has, for instance, schizophrenia, clinical depression or alcoholism, is there any option apart from indigence?

sandworm101 11y ago
Jail and/or prison. That is where many of them end up. Some judges would rather see someone get "treatment" in custody than get nothing on the street.
- anon4 11y ago
  Jail is different from prison how?
  - neverminder 11y ago
    In context of US: http://sheriff.org/faqs/displayfaq.cfm?id=4f892698-5c5d-40f8-b159-c9a0b6ed66f3 http://sheriff.org/faqs/displayfaq.cfm?id=4f892698-5c5d-40f8...
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Roughly Americans use prison to refer to places where people are held after being sentenced, and jail to refer to where people are held before sentencing. Or sometimes jail refers to short sentences. http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=31513 http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=31513 In England we'd tend to use prison or jail for prisons and "on remand" for people awaiting trial or sentencing, and "police cells" for other stuff. In the US a lot of prisons have high populations of people with mental illness. See, for example, the use of prisoners to care for other prisoners who have dementia. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/health/dealing-with-dementia-among-aging-criminals.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/health/dealing-with-dement...
  - sandworm101 11y ago
    Jail is for pre-trial sentencing and sentences under one year. So many of the people have not been convicted. Jails spend most of their energies sorting people into various risk categories. There are few if any 'treatment' programs in jails. Prisons are where people actually serve meaningful time. Everyone is in for at least a year and everyone is an actually convicted criminal, not just someone awaiting trial.

ilaksh 11y ago

http://runvnc.github.io/tinyvillage/ http://runvnc.github.io/tinyvillage/

happyscrappy 11y ago

In the US you cannot forcibly put someone in a homeless shelter, if they refuse to go there is nothing you can do about it. People die on the streets in Boston every year because of this but it would be impossible to pass a law forcing them.

vjoshi 11y ago

To add, seems things are going in the right direction after all: http://refhubuk.wix.com/refhub http://refhubuk.wix.com/refhub